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Thread: Five for Fighting - How Hockey Saved the Allies - An FtM AAR

  1. #281
    Second Lieutenant Caleb The Great's Avatar
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    Yeah as Dewirix wrote, the Ai has a problem and wants to supply every port you own. By directly controlling you can use your convoys better and more efficiently. And about your thinking of opening another front in Europe, maybe you should wait for an allied landing in Europe. After all, now that the US is at war, the invasion threat is almost imminent in Europe so you should watch the overall allied progress and try to help, where the help is really needed. Join the European invasion force, if you think it's a respectable one. Otherwise, maybe you should consider a change of theatre, you could wreak havoc among the Japanese.
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  2. #282
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eqqman View Post
    Did you happen to toggle the priority reinforcement mode for those Mountain troops defending the straits of Messina for you? I seldom use that feature myself, but when you're at negative manpower it becomes very important to help keep your most vital troops fully staffed up.
    Yeah, but I got kind of happy toggling priority so too many others have it as well. I'll fix that eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saithis View Post
    Yay, Admiral King is doing something!

    I look forward to the daring plans you've set in motion in Britain. Sicily continues to hold well, but hopefully a serious offensive can draw attention away from the Soviet front.
    That's what I am hoping for!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    Re your convoy losses: I had an awful time with sinkings until I decided to bite the bullet and take control of them myself. Turns out the AI is fond of shipping supplies to any overseas port you hold, regardless of whether it's actually garrisoned or not. I was able to gain back a fair few ships and reduce my exposure to Axis subs just by switching off convoys to North Africa and the Mediterranean islands I wasn't planning on defending.

    The corollary of this is that you need to remember to manually create convoys if you're operating out of a captured port. I haven't forgotten to do this yet, but the risk is always that I'll forget and see my entire army go OoS after a month.

    Good luck against Denmark. I think it's a logical progression from your activities in the Med, and you should be able to hold out against attempts to cross the straits. However, German airpower is going to be a serious headache.
    I have cut back on a few manually, I'll see about cancelling some altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb The Great View Post
    Yeah as Dewirix wrote, the Ai has a problem and wants to supply every port you own. By directly controlling you can use your convoys better and more efficiently. And about your thinking of opening another front in Europe, maybe you should wait for an allied landing in Europe. After all, now that the US is at war, the invasion threat is almost imminent in Europe so you should watch the overall allied progress and try to help, where the help is really needed. Join the European invasion force, if you think it's a respectable one. Otherwise, maybe you should consider a change of theatre, you could wreak havoc among the Japanese.
    Japan would be nice, but I want to get things moving in Europe if at all possible.

    Well, this is going to have to be today's update. It's short and lame, but I logged on to carry out my promised invasion, only to discover that my ships would not reach, so after much frustration I rebased in Oslo, and still could not reach. I'm 90% certain that the Danish sea zone I want to land in somehow counts as a strait like Gibraltar or the Dardanelles. You know how you can attack Gibraltar by sea from the Atlantic but not the Med? Well, apparently to reach the island group which Copenhagen is on, you have to go through such a strait. It's not at all clear on the map, it looks to me like I can sail well past Copenhagen, but from the red x's and beeps I'm pretty sure my plan was never going to work from a game-mechanic perspective (never mind militarily).

    I'm tempted to invade where I can reach, and fight to Copenhagen, but I don't want to risk the game on a wild theory just to get it played today. So there will be no real update today, and I'll see what kind of plan I can come up with before Thursday. I could post the screenshots of me trying to get there, but you'll just have to trust me that this thing isn't working
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  3. #283
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    I think you need to control Northern Jutland somewhere to get to Copenhagen. It definitely counts as a strait though.
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  4. #284
    Lt. General Tallfellow's Avatar
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    Yeah Öresund strait is between Copenhagen and Malmö, and that's why Denmark is so Important for Germany.
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  5. #285
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    I think you need to control Northern Jutland somewhere to get to Copenhagen. It definitely counts as a strait though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallfellow View Post
    Yeah Öresund strait is between Copenhagen and Malmö, and that's why Denmark is so Important for Germany.
    Ah, thanks for the confirmation. Makes sense, but I really need to think about whether to follow through with the same plan. I mean, I'm fighting across the strait I think is fantastic to defend. Which means I'm counting on the other side being undefended. Escape, if it's not, is kind of iffy. Well, it's my own fault for waiting until, the last minute to play, but I had the day off so I figured there'd be time, and I already knew where I was attacking. Ah well, time to make a new plan or follow through with a riskier version of this one.
    Last edited by InnocentIII; 27-03-2012 at 03:44.
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  6. #286
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Forty-Three - Twenty-Two Days in January

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of Canada, it was the age of Germany. It was the Age When I Thought I Knew What I Was Doing, it was the Age When I Learned Seriously Otherwise.

    But first, good times!



    Losses 10-1, well, six or seven to one after you factor in our 200 losses to air attacks. But fun fun fun. Too bad the whole war can't be fought across the Straits of Messina, that's what I'm shooting for. However, as I mentioned in the non-update update, I cannot get my guys to their destination!



    I cannot get to "X" because the enemy owns the passageway at "Y". Stupid me, this was not immediately obvious. What this means is that my entire plan was based on an impossibility.

    Granted, it makes sense both militarily and from a gameplay perspective not to allow a combatant to just sail up to a critical landing zone, dump his troops, and run. From my perspective, though, this is pretty much all I've done this entire war Why stop me now? I'd use something more like a "coastal sea zone" and have a set of onerous rules where all defending air units and sea units are guaranteed to intercept. I mean, had the Germans possessed naval units in the area and more air power, do we really think they'd have not found the D-Day force before the landings were complete? Anyway, this is how HoI3 handles the Copenhagen area. It's reasonable, but I had no idea.

    So my old plan is caput. Still, it was Wednesday night, I had no other plan, so full steam ahead! Do or Die! The rest of this AAR might be really, really short ("me and the Canadian army took in a movie, but the row in front of us kept talking so I don't know what it was about; turns out it was the Canadian navy").

    So between Christmas 1942 and the start of 1943 I spent the time trying to get my guys to land at their assigned spot with no success and mounting frustration and more embarassment than I'd anticipated short of losing all my land units at sea. Roll the montage:



    Okay, a three-part montage. I landed in Oslo figuring I might be out of range. I tried using an "Invasion" order, which worked! In the sense that I was permitted to give the order, my guys just never went to their destination. So after a break, I decided to try to fight my way to the destination, or at least get a sense of what would be involved.



    Well, you can see the tip of the province I wanted to take, but fighting across two straits against unknown German forces seemed like a bad idea. Plus, the whole point of my invasion was that you get a huge penalty fighting across these straits, so was I really gonna do it myself? No. I decided to grab the port. Of course, a makeshift plan like this was not well thought through, and I'd have to take the long way.



    What's this? At the risk of seeming like the Mom at the end of Captain Ron - she fires a flaregun at the boat following them, sees a massive explosion in the water near it, and looks in amazement at the flaregun - I wonder if my capture of part of Denmark didn't trigger this. Probably not, but it's an odd coincidence. Kudos to Paradox, by the way, on the Soviet event, lol!



    I don't see anything amiss from a German perspective except the same lack of progress they've had for ages. I dunno, but I'm taking credit! Especially given how all this turns out! One German division attacked my stack, which had ample supplies, and both sides lost six men. 1-1 losses, crap.

    Meanwhile my Merchant Marine and associated escorts began melting down. I lost thirteen Transports and two Escorts all told this chapter.



    That was a particularly bad day at sea, and you can see my plan, such as it was. Some units were going to port, others stopping short in the next province.

    Then I got good news and bad news. Well, the Brits conquered Siam, so I suppose I got two bits of good news. But the bad news was that the German Armor arrived in my destination before I did, so we'd see how I'd do fighting my way across open land.



    So I got the Battle Plan tech which gives my units a 5% chance of entering a battle from reserve status, which is great, but I could not let this fight go on long when other German units showed up. Even so, my vast army took double the losses of a newly arrived armored division. Not a good sign for my future. Then the bombings began. So I executed my brilliant plan - drop a port and pick up my guys!



    ...or, you know, not...



    Plus, take a look at that very high number for the attacker. At this point, I was convinced that half the Canadian army was, like Kansas, "about to go bye bye". Wonderful, a massive force, or at least respectably large, is easily repelled by a single armored division, and then wiped out by cavalry. Great. What is this, Civ 2? Of course, I wasn't critical of the game, I was more imagining the Prime Minister's meeting after where I would have to answer the eternal question, "what the hell were you thinking?" Really, a Canadian invasion of German-occupied Europe seemed like an excellent idea at the time.

    Our Persian forces arrived in Tobruk just in time for me to realize how pointless it was for me to take a screenshot of the event.



    That's us, being defeated by some cavalry who apparently could not be bothered to fight in their own battle. Armored Car wannabes. To quote Captain Ron at about the same time as the Flare Gun incident, "we're all gonna die!"

    Fortunately, like American Express, defeat has its advantages.



    Plus, since these battles apparently don't count against manpower, we have the least bad negative manpower Canada has seen in ages!

    To be fair to my forces, I did have a fair number of enemy arrayed against me. This is the kind of overreaction I was hoping to fight across the Straits of Messina or its Copenhagen equivalent.

    Good plan, sort of. Somewhere between poor execution and it-was-impossible-anyway-so-meh execution.



    It is a far, far better thing I do (as soon as I think of it) than I have ever done before. It is a far, far better place I go (I hope) than I have ever been before.
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  7. #287
    Man, Axis love their gigantic defensive forces. I guess making a jab at some weaker points in Aisa or the Mediterran would be a better idea.

    Also do the recent events mean that Soviet Union is finally turning the tide, or will the Germans just throw more stacks on the frontline?

  8. #288
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    Plus, since these battles apparently don't count against manpower, we have the least bad negative manpower Canada has seen in ages!
    I think (but don't hold me to this), that the manpower needs of units currently in combat don't get taken into account, so if you'd been fighting at midnight on the day you checked those units' needs won't show up.

    Bad luck with Denmark (wouldn't Hamlet have been a better source of quotes than Tale of Two Cities?). There's still a fair bit you can do in the Far East, such as taking out Taiwan and the outlying islands, although the IJN seems much tougher than the Regia Marina.

    Also kudos for reminding me of Captain Ron!
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  9. #289
    Second Lieutenant Caleb The Great's Avatar
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    Well, if you don't try, you can't possibly succeed. The Soviets are advancing, right? That means you can land again a bit before "der Untergang" and secure former allied territories such as Holland and Denmark. Holland is surprisingly easy to defend, the river line from the swamps to Amsterdam can be really difficult for the German to take over, I personally defended the region as the UK and never left the continental Europe. You could use Allied objectives in territories you own, it usually leads to your allies giving you their units to defend the area
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    Alright, technically you don't dip your toe into a fortress, but you get the idea.
    I suppose it'll rather depend upon whether the fortress has a moat or not!

    Good updates, a pity that the daring attempt on Denmark didn't go as planned but it was worth a try at the very least.
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  11. #291
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by croguy View Post
    Man, Axis love their gigantic defensive forces. I guess making a jab at some weaker points in Asia or the Mediterranean would be a better idea.

    Also do the recent events mean that Soviet Union is finally turning the tide, or will the Germans just throw more stacks on the frontline?
    It seems like the USSR is going to start pushing back, but I haven't seen much. And you're right on where to fight, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    I think (but don't hold me to this), that the manpower needs of units currently in combat don't get taken into account, so if you'd been fighting at midnight on the day you checked those units' needs won't show up.

    Bad luck with Denmark (wouldn't Hamlet have been a better source of quotes than Tale of Two Cities?). There's still a fair bit you can do in the Far East, such as taking out Taiwan and the outlying islands, although the IJN seems much tougher than the Regia Marina.

    Also kudos for reminding me of Captain Ron!
    I thought manpower would be on a boat, but I suppose any unit which cannot be reinforced would not count in the total, so that makes sense. Can't use Hamlet, that thing's just one cliche after another!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb The Great View Post
    Well, if you don't try, you can't possibly succeed. The Soviets are advancing, right? That means you can land again a bit before "der Untergang" and secure former allied territories such as Holland and Denmark. Holland is surprisingly easy to defend, the river line from the swamps to Amsterdam can be really difficult for the German to take over, I personally defended the region as the UK and never left the continental Europe. You could use Allied objectives in territories you own, it usually leads to your allies giving you their units to defend the area
    Have to try, absolutely, but I think my individual values or tech won't match your UK even if I have the numbers. Small German forces seemed to brush me aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by morningSIDEr View Post
    I suppose it'll rather depend upon whether the fortress has a moat or not!

    Good updates, a pity that the daring attempt on Denmark didn't go as planned but it was worth a try at the very least.
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  12. #292
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Forty-Four - Back to the Kids' Table

    Well, the foray into German-held Denmark was a bust. However, it did remind us of something important, Canada really can't take on Germany. Sure, across the Straits of Messina we can fight anyone, but there are no more straits to conquer. We have to fight on land now. So it's back to the kids' table, no more fighting with the adults, at least not alone.

    There is good news, however, the USA is well defended!



    All that Armor we were about to invade the Midwest with? Well, the US us ready for us!

    We win another round in Messina, 1140-40, but lose 140 to air attacks. Our two interceptor air units are sent in to defend, but we face three the Italians have, and with no research into air combat we get torn up pretty quickly. It's not even slowing down the bombers is my guess, because our dogfights are against the Italian interceptors, not the close assault air units.

    We start losing more Transports and Escorts while we move our troops back to Sicily when, what's this!



    No need to worry ma'am, just remain calm. This looks like a job for The Steamroller of the North! Canada slips into a nearby phone booth.

    We win yet another Messina battle 2550-350 with 200 losses to air attacks. With half our troops at sea, we're only down 7 Manpower. We've finally hit on a solution to Canada's low population: cruise ships! Pile everyone into transports for a few months and we could make new units. First, we need more transports, but to build them we need manpower.

    We'll work on that later.

    In early February, Supply Production hits +35%. I think I'll hold off on doing more of that. IC is not what we're after anymore, we need leet combat skillz. We finally start research on Integrated Support, +5% Morale to Marines and Mountain troops, and 3% Encirclement. Fortunately, back on Sardinia, everyone did remain calm. In fact, nobody on the island even moved. Our manpower losses are back to negative 15 when the troops reach Sicily. The men who did not invade Denmark will be sent to fight in Sadinia. This time, also, I finally revamp my HQ structure a bit. Everyone is attached to someone they're near to.

    We win in Messina 425-15, and the Italians bomb Trapani because the land attack wasn't pointless enough by itself. Their armor apparently lagged, and we beat a single unit 88-0. They should have used armored cars. Well, the Italians made many passes at Messina, which is best handled in a list (losses in parenthesis are good guys killed by air attacks): 600-50 (200); 150-0(20); 3000-500; 130-6; 700-80; 63-2(40); 450-50(160). Total losses of all Messina attacks thus far, this chapter, work out to about 9000-1800 including air attacks. Only five to one, which is great in the abstract, but bad in the results for Canada since we need guys to make things happen.

    Well here's a big surprise!



    I faced a choice - run off to fight in the Pacific, or mess around in Europe and try to be ready for D-Day. I picked D-Day. As much as I'd like to fight in both theatres, I really need to be involved in Europe, and I could lose a lot trying to fight in in Japan. Ah well.

    It's not like the USA was waiting for me, anyway.



    Mesina again, 1300-400 (includes air attacks) boosting the overall numbers to 10,300-2200. Then we got good news!



    Ok, forget all the new Canadian deaths (2380 now), and the rapid American progress on Kyushu, we're up to +20% to Infantry ORG!

    Then still more good news!



    No, not the dead shipping (we've lost 23 Transports and 5 Escorts this chapter), and not the excess Canadian deaths (2460 now), but we have trickleback! I should have done that earlier. We could use some of our casualties turning into troops. One percent adds up, 25 guys just this chapter, that's a whole hockey team!

    Then we made yet another advance!



    There goes those damned fool Italians falling off their peninsula, again.

    Agriculture is very nice, more Manpower just when we need it most. Our air cover keeps getting torn up, but hopefully we're helping to keep the enemy air force at bay part of the time. As you can see, we have two more advances coming. Oooh, oil refining, that's gonna turn this war around!
    Last edited by InnocentIII; 03-04-2012 at 01:09.
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  13. #293
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    Is oil refining even a problem? In the Canada games I've played I've always had plenty of fuel, despite not researching any refining technologies. The real problem has been paying enough to Venezuela or the US for crude.

    The US is making stunning progress in Japan, to the point where it might be worth seeing what Canada can snag in the fire sale. I hear Taiwan's nice this time of year. That said, if the IJN are still around they'll still be a scary proposition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    CK2! Yes. Can you imagine HoI4 if Vicky2 and CK2 are anything to go by?
    I'm salivating at the thought!

    Very impressive stuff from America, it looks as if Japan will soon be knocked out of the war, D-Day is approaching. I do rather like that whilst Canadian forces are fighting desperately in Europe, incurring considerable losses, there is nonetheless celebration since technological progress is being made!
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    Karl Popper Fanboy H.Appleby's Avatar
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    Yaay! Democracy is prevailing in the East!
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  16. #296
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewirix View Post
    Is oil refining even a problem? In the Canada games I've played I've always had plenty of fuel, despite not researching any refining technologies. The real problem has been paying enough to Venezuela or the US for crude.

    The US is making stunning progress in Japan, to the point where it might be worth seeing what Canada can snag in the fire sale. I hear Taiwan's nice this time of year. That said, if the IJN are still around they'll still be a scary proposition.
    Refining probably wasn't my best choice, is it just time you save, or oil? I'll have to look when I log back in later. The IJN is the real problem, I could lose half my army to an error or bad luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by morningSIDEr View Post
    I'm salivating at the thought! [of HoI4]

    Very impressive stuff from America, it looks as if Japan will soon be knocked out of the war, D-Day is approaching. I do rather like that whilst Canadian forces are fighting desperately in Europe, incurring considerable losses, there is nonetheless celebration since technological progress is being made!
    Yeah, the more I play CK2 and recall how much fun Vicky2 is, the more I think the next iterations of the other Paradox games are going to be amazing. Hopefully I'll get a chance to use my techs in combat where Canada is big enough to matter, but not the only one fighting in the west.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.Appleby View Post
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  17. #297
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Forty-Five Sardinia

    NOTE - No update the Monday after Easter Weekend, there will most likely be a normal update next Thursday, but it might be next Sunday if my weeknights are too busy. I'm taking my family to NYC for Mass at St Patricks and to see Newsies on Broadway. There's fighting in Newsies, a musical about a group of young boys (who live in a state which borders Canada!) who sell newspapers ... which carry hockey scores. That's right, it's research for this AAR!

    The USA is well on it's way to conquering Japan, but the Italians, using German armor, have conquered bits of Sardinia, and the superhero of the Mediteranean must step in to act! Plus, it gives me something to do while I wait for D-Day other than another raid. I have some ideas for whittling away at our adversaries, but not just yet.

    In our production queue we have nothing but bases and merchant marine. We have two air bases built and ready to place, and we've replaced the wasted naval base we dropped in Denmark, and we're replacing the replacement.

    We researched Agriculture last time, which reminds us that there's not too much we can research or build that will come on line soon enough to affect the outcome of the war, or Canada's part in it. I'll try to stick to short-ish build times and combat-impact techs once the current queue is completed. I'm guessing late 1944 for the end of hostilities. It's April 1943.

    The Italians lost in Messina again 1200-100, then bombed Palermo to broaden their commitment to pointless acts of destruction. Speaking of which:



    Let's build a fort! You know, I didn't do this originally because it would take so long. Now, of course, I'm doing it because I need to waste IC on a pointless act of construction which requires no manpower, but also because either I'll be fighting here for a long time, or I'll be amazingly capturing southern Italy.

    I move my fort to the top of the queue. I only hope coastal forts are not just against sea-borne assaults and also work against Strait-crossing assaults.

    I'm down 12.8 Manpower, not too bad (570-39). That's right, Messina battles won't even be named any more, they are parenthetical combat!

    The Eastern Front looks about the same as always. The USSR recaptured that one province in Greece which you may recall had changed hands. That's about it, and look, what if they threw an invasion and nobody came?



    Nobody showed up, not even the hosts! Ah well, someday. Meanwhile, when Canada says everyone stop, everyone stops.



    I guess German armor under Italian commanders knows better than to mess with zombie HQs. We discover First Aid, and those bandages reduce attrition by 5%.

    If this was EU3, that would matter. No matter, to Sardinia!



    Oops, somebody is home. Fearing that, I'd sent marines to land in the port, and other troops to take nearby land. The trouble is that this leaves my navy hanging in a bad place while the troops fight their way ashore.

    Fortunately, all we get is an Italian naval strike (i.e. air bombardment of my ships), and we land our troops. Some are added to the battle, some are sent to surround the enemy.



    With the new combat tech, our reserve units are rapidly added to the front line.



    We win pretty quickly once it's more than marines against the defenders.



    The armor thinks seriously about moving into a better position, but only until we arrive. Then it freezes. Note the non-empty airfield!

    Our supply situation is great. Presumably the Axis supply situation is not.



    Fifty-five hundred Italians move to more comfortable quarters, and we move to surround the German panzer division.

    Meanwhile, we lost fifteen Transports and a disturbing six escorts this chapter. I might have to hunt around and defend these guys later.



    What? What are those combat results doing in there? Sorry. Heads will roll.

    Air forces v undefended enemy ground units. This was fun:



    But all good things must end, or at least change to something even better.



    There was no end-of-combat-report, but the German four-brigade armor division of about 10,000 men was annihilated. If only more enemy could be trapped on an island!
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  18. #298

  19. #299
    General morningSIDEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    Air forces v undefended enemy ground units. This was fun:
    What the-Canada inflicting casaulties via air assaults rather than merely suffering them?!

    Nicely done polishing off another sizeable Italian force. The lost transports and escorts is a worry though, hopefully you can right that at some point in the near future.
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  20. #300
    Lady of the North Star Demi Moderator Saithis's Avatar
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    Messina remains the great battleground, its beaches doomed to be littered with Italian corpses!

    Good job in Sardinia, nice to see the Italians pay for their attempted counterattack.
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