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Thread: Developer Diary 19 Crusades

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Developer Diary 19 Crusades

    With a title like Crusader Kings II we could not have not included the crusades, and, in what must class as a piece of unintentional irony by Doomdark, I have been delegated to write it.

    First off, for those of you who really are getting immersed into the world of Crusader Kings II and simply cannot wait for the Pope to call a crusade there is nothing stopping you going off on a solo tour. You always have a CB against religious enemies, so if you have the will we have given you the means. The CB targets a De Jure Duchy of a religious enemy, and on success you acquire all the holdings inside the Duchy, leaving you to just decide who will be the new bishops and mayors.

    The Crusades themselves are in fact not just crusades; any independent religious head may call for a holy war against religious enemies. The religious heads also have certain preferred targets, just as the Pope would love you to get Rome back (if lost), the Muslim Caliphs want the faithful to recover Mecca and Medina (so expect an interesting stay if you do decide to visit). Success in conquering the Crusade target grants the conqueror bonuses and prestige and piety.

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    As a little aside, since I know it is probably going to be one of the first questions you are going to ask, this is all very moddable. A holy war is scripted as an EU3 style mission that is open to all characters of that religion. The logic that decides when it is called and what province is the target is stored inside this script allows those of you who are of the modding persuasion to play around with it to your hearts content.

    We also have events tied into the crusades. These include events that supply a bonus to characters who arrive at the crusade target and participate in its capture. Vassals may even be disappointed if you do not participate in the Crusade and the Pope will also badger you to take part in it. He may even offer to lift an excommunication to persuade you to go along.

    We also have holy orders (again in a nice script file for those of you who want to add more), these act as very powerful mercenary regiments. However, they have two twists: they will not fight people of the same religion and they cost piety instead of cash to hire. Bringing these guys along on a crusade can be very helpful. In addition, they are classed as Dukes for game purposes. So they can be granted titles, create vassals and be vassalised. In our set-up files the Hospitalers and the Templars are scripted as Vassals of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (which means they are no longer for hire) and they form a powerful shock force of the Kingdom. The famous Krak de Chevaliers is a separate castle holding held by the Hospitalers.

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    Once Holy Orders gain land they also gain an AI and diplomacy options, meaning that if you were to, say, grant the Teutonic Knights a few holdings in Prussia they might just get it into themselves to expand even more. There are events where the Holy Orders will ask for castles, and as these formations are militarily powerful, granting them castles will form a powerful bulwark against those who would seek to deny you your rightful holdings.

    All in all Crusades have been given a nice little make over in CK2 that makes them much more interesting and dynamic.

    Chris King
    Grand Master of the Holy Game Design Order.
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  2. #2
    Major esbenmf's Avatar
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    Crusades finally ! How will a crusade play out if two different Kings (say the King of France and the King of England) decides to invade the crusade target province at the same time ? Will they cooperate with fighting and sigeing ?

    Esben
    Last edited by esbenmf; 17-11-2011 at 13:01.

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    Crusader Kaleidoscope's Avatar
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    Is there no mechanic here to represent multiple independent rulers embarking on the same crusade together as a single army? I was looking to the Crusader armies having factions, politics and infighting.
    Sola Virtus Invicta

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esbenmf View Post
    Crusades finally ! How will a crusade play out if two different Kings (say the King of France and the King of England) decides to invade the crusade target province at the same time ? Will they cooperate with fighting and sigeing ?

    Esben
    They will cooperate but first one there will get the province.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    Is there no mechanic here to represent multiple independent rulers embarking on the same crusade together as a single army? I was looking to the Crusader armies having factions, politics and infighting.
    None at all.
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  6. #6
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    With a title like Crusader Kings II we could not have not included the crusades, and, in what must class as a piece of unintentional irony by Doomdark, I have been delegated to write it.
    I smiled, thank you for that sentence
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    First Lieutenant Xain's Avatar
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    What do you mean by saying that you can declare a holy war on a de jure Duchy ?
    What if the Duchy (meaning, the Emirate) doesn't currently exist, or is held by different rulers ?
    For exemple, Sicily at the starting date is divided between four independent Muslim states (Trapani, Palermo, Syracuse and Malta), neither of them part of a Kingdom or a Duchy (at least, that's how in CKI was), and even a Christian county (Messina). Who do we declare war to ?

    Another question : does declaring an Holy war against a de jure Duchy mean that we will be at war with his liege as well ? And his others correligionaries ?

    And a last question : during a Holy War, the principle for which casus belli can't be exceeded stays ? Like, if we go on an holy war for Sicily and we happen to occupy Tunis as well, can we annex it ? And, on the contrary, if during our holy war for Sicily the heathens happen to occupy Messina (de jure county), can they annex it ? And if they occupy Reggio (not a de jure county) ?

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    Crusader Kaleidoscope's Avatar
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    How are characters on crusade tracked re: their location? Are there any special events that fire to show them being away from court, for example?
    Sola Virtus Invicta

  9. #9
    In CK1 you got punished on infamy when you conquered vast lands on crusade. I know that you have changed the infamy system, but will there be another "backfire" on doing religious conquest?

  10. #10
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xain View Post
    What do you mean that you can declare a holy war on a de jure Duchy ?
    What if the Duchy (meaning, the Emirate) doesn't currently exist, or is held by different rulers ?
    For exemple, Sicily at the starting date is divided between four independent Muslim states (Trapani, Palermo, Syracuse and Malta), neither of them part of a Kingdom (at least, that's how in CKI was), and even a Christian county (Messina). Who do we declare war to ?

    Another question : does declaring an Holy war against a de jure Duchy mean that we will be at war with his liege as well ? And his others correligionaries ?

    And a last question : during a Holy War, the principle for which casus belli can't be exceeded stays ? Like, if we go on an holy war for Sicily an we happen to occupy Tunis as well, can we annex it ? And, on the contrary, if during our holy war for Sicily the heathens happen to occupy Messina (de jure county), can they annex it ? And if they occupy Reggio (not a de jure county) ?
    Unless you happen to be fightening inside your realm you always declare war on and make peace with the top liege. If you succeed the top liege will hand over all holdings inside the De Jure duchy they happen to have. It doesn't matter if the title exists and who holds it as the the underlying counties that belong to a duchy are fixed so the game knows who these are. If the duchy is split over several serperate entities then you need to fight several seperate entities to gain all the holdings.

    Yes even with holy wars you cannot extend your CB, the duchy you went for is the one you get in peace regardless of what you actually hold.
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  11. #11
    Lt. General Anders_de_K's Avatar
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    How do I go about giving titles to the heads of the Holy Orders? Do I have to wait for them to ask for it themselves?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleidoscope View Post
    How are characters on crusade tracked re: their location? Are there any special events that fire to show them being away from court, for example?
    The game knows where a character is at all times. It even tells you in the charcter interface. If the character is commanding a contingent of an army that arrives at the crusade target then we can fire the events as described in the developer diary.
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  13. #13
    Well, I guess it should work well enough. Seems very functional.

    What Kaleidoscope describes sounds good, though. Perhaps something for an expansion.

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_de_K View Post
    How do I go about giving titles to the heads of the Holy Orders? Do I have to wait for them to ask for it themselves?
    Handing out titles is a diplmatic action and you reach the heads of the holy orders through the holy order tab inside the military screen.
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    Can I give landed titles to regular mercenaries?
    Most supporters of the Oslo Accords insisted that this agreement would solve all existing problems.

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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_de_K View Post
    Can I give landed titles to regular mercenaries?
    You can't, if regular mercs desperately want land they will just take it.
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    Can a religious order gain independence from a kingdom?

    Also after they land themselves ,will we continue to pay their piety "fee"? Or is that just when they are mercenaries
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    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrider View Post
    Can a religious order gain independence from a kingdom?

    Also after they land themselves ,will we continue to pay their piety "fee"? Or is that just when they are mercenaries
    They can if they wish the only thing about being a vassal of a kingdom is only the King can hire them. If they go solo anyone can call upon thier services, ythey just need to pay the piety.
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  19. #19
    Nice DD. And like always it raises so many questions

    Let's say I'm playing with an Iberian king and without the pope even asking for a crusade I decide to bash the southern muslims. Are there any religious orders that can help me in 1066? And if so, granting land to them makes them independent?

    Can we for example mod in some religious orders which are vassal to other kingdoms? For example religious order "LeonTemplars" which is vassal to Leon.

    Does Jerusalem get any penalties for having religious orders vassals? They shouldn't get the same income as if they were normal vassals. Right?
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  20. #20
    First Lieutenant Xain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    If the duchy is split over several serperate entities then you need to fight several seperate entities to gain all the holdings.
    And will that give you a claim on the Ducal title ?

    I'm thinking about a scenario of this type : both Duchy of Apulia and Duchy of Sardegna sart an holy war to gain the control of Sicily. Let's say that Apulia DoW Palermo and Malta (and wins) and Sardegna DoW Trapani and Siracusa (and wins as well). Virtually Apulia has now the right to create a ducal title, controlling 4 counties (Palermo, Agrigento, Messina and Malta) on 6. But, since Sardegna fought a war for Sicily as well, will it get a claim on the newly-created Ducal title ?

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