Need some advice for the Mori Clan with 1551 start. Mori is at war with Amago at the start of the game and Amago has way too many troops than Mori, defeat seams inevitable. Any help would be appreciated.
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It is a common situation shared with many small clans.
See if you can somehow achieve peace by proposing marriages, sending gifts and improving relations with a good master of the arts, then go for the plot.
If you can keep the enemy AI busy, sooner or later someone will attack it. Dishonoring it with a Ninja repeatedly may also cause a split-civil war and perhaps this is the most favorable option.
See if you can somehow achieve peace by proposing marriages, sending gifts and improving relations with a good master of the arts, then go for the plot.
If you can keep the enemy AI busy, sooner or later someone will attack it. Dishonoring it with a Ninja repeatedly may also cause a split-civil war and perhaps this is the most favorable option.
Just tried a few times but didn't work out too good. There isn't much time to deploy any strategy before the whole clan is destroyed. Please provide some detail step by step instructions if at all possible.
I am going to try the Mori Clan and see if I can pull something out of the cylinder.
Perhaps if the situation is so critical (don't know yet) you might want to propose a subjugation and then biding your time work your way out through plotting.
Will let you know as soon as practical.
Perhaps if the situation is so critical (don't know yet) you might want to propose a subjugation and then biding your time work your way out through plotting.
Will let you know as soon as practical.
Thank you GShock. Amago wont' accept any of my peace offer. I'm looking forward to hearing from you then.
By the way, my game is the latest 1.3 version.
By the way, my game is the latest 1.3 version.
I tried a few games with Mori-1551, and yea, they are almost impossible to survive, which is a shame knowing what Mori Motonari achieved historically.
I feel that the only way to survive is to submit to the Amago as a subjugated clan leader, then help them finish up the Ouchi. But for them to accept, you probably have to lose at least one kori and do multiple re-loads. At least that's how I managed to submit to them.
As for opening moves, I immediately set about collecting taxes and restoring order in Aki, so that i can get my 4-3 ashigaru retinue up asap. I mobilised all my levies except ano, so as to delay any seige on it to secure a flank (most likely u will lose Ano tho), while my army just defends until I can propose a subjugation to them. My whole tactic was to not agro their army, so that I can buy time by letting them focus on Urakami instead.
But if the main Amago 5-6k army comes your way before the Amago accepts your subjugation, you will probably need to restart.
I feel that the only way to survive is to submit to the Amago as a subjugated clan leader, then help them finish up the Ouchi. But for them to accept, you probably have to lose at least one kori and do multiple re-loads. At least that's how I managed to submit to them.
As for opening moves, I immediately set about collecting taxes and restoring order in Aki, so that i can get my 4-3 ashigaru retinue up asap. I mobilised all my levies except ano, so as to delay any seige on it to secure a flank (most likely u will lose Ano tho), while my army just defends until I can propose a subjugation to them. My whole tactic was to not agro their army, so that I can buy time by letting them focus on Urakami instead.
But if the main Amago 5-6k army comes your way before the Amago accepts your subjugation, you will probably need to restart.
We've got to wait for the critical patch that will fix the levy issue.
Make sure that when Amago raises its levy the manpower in the koris is expended (this is what the patch has already fixed internally). If this is the case then maybe that clan can be prey of someone else in the meanwhile. You can ALSO perform sneak attacks while you are yourself besieged and hope that by taking swiftly one or 2 koris, Amago will accept your sueing for peace under all aspects (concede/white/subjugate).
I am going to try and see by myself now.
Make sure that when Amago raises its levy the manpower in the koris is expended (this is what the patch has already fixed internally). If this is the case then maybe that clan can be prey of someone else in the meanwhile. You can ALSO perform sneak attacks while you are yourself besieged and hope that by taking swiftly one or 2 koris, Amago will accept your sueing for peace under all aspects (concede/white/subjugate).
I am going to try and see by myself now.
Thank you Ritzzz and GShock for sharing your thoughts and experience. To me if I have to play the game by S/L strategy it's unplayable I think I'll just wait to see if this can be fixed either by patch or maybe expansion pack? I just tried another three times and finally I decided to give up. Personally I think the curretn Sengoku engine is not suitable for a Sengoku Jidai game. Koei has a Oda Nobunaga game which has very good representation and feel of Sengoku in many ways.
I think I'll just wait the Crusader Kings 2 for now.
I think I'll just wait the Crusader Kings 2 for now.
I couldn't find the clan... where is it located? I want to give it a try (Aki in S2 is Mori but in Sengoku it's Takeda so I can't find the Mori clan).
Don't give up... it's a very complex game with countless possibilities. You might even be able to pull out with a good diplomatic skill, an excellent wife and a good peace offer request.
Countless, really countless possibilities to explore before giving up. Besides, we've got a patch coming!
Don't give up... it's a very complex game with countless possibilities. You might even be able to pull out with a good diplomatic skill, an excellent wife and a good peace offer request.
Countless, really countless possibilities to explore before giving up. Besides, we've got a patch coming!
You can try to remove the war between the Mori and Amago. (Please look at the Chugoku.txt in histroy/wars folder.)
Isn't this kind of cheating? I won't do it unless someone told me that you have to cheat to survive as Mori which just makes me so disappointed.
GShock, I just tried almost ten times and there is just no way to survive as Mori. I don't know how would the diplomatic skill or excellent wife help with this situation. Amago doesn't care and he only wants my land. I don't want to give up but I have to.
CK2 looks very similar to Sengoku and I'm concerned that the small counties would have the same issues like Mori (and Mori should not be treated as small clan at all!). Maybe I should not pre-order CK2 till it's fully playable and balanced after some patches.
I think one way to give 1551-Mori a fighting chance is to give them a 1.5-2k retinue army at the start. This way, coupled with Mori Motonari's excellent stats, a player should be able to hold out long enough (albeit with a bit of challenge) until Ouchi is done with the Otomo and can focus his troops on Amago.
Perhaps this could also be extended to the various small clans that start out at war with much bigger clans? Eg Besso, Ashikaga (shimosa-branch, the one that starts out at war with Hojo). As it is currently, the 1551 scenario is just waaay too predictable: Miyoshi in the middle, Otomo/Amago in the west and Hojo in the west, it always these clans that grow waay too big.
Perhaps this could also be extended to the various small clans that start out at war with much bigger clans? Eg Besso, Ashikaga (shimosa-branch, the one that starts out at war with Hojo). As it is currently, the 1551 scenario is just waaay too predictable: Miyoshi in the middle, Otomo/Amago in the west and Hojo in the west, it always these clans that grow waay too big.
Guys if you don't tell me where Mori is, I have no clue hence no idea how to even start trying!
Problem is even if Mori is given 2k army at the start Amago could still beat it with more than 8k army. Talking about Ouchi they can't even hold their own land, most of the time they are losing the battles with Otomo too. I've never seen (since I never survived that longer..) Ouchi get some free time from the war with Otomo. Amago could easily finish Mori and the other clan to the east before Ouchi finished their war with Otomo. And then it's the end of Ouchi as well. I played some other clan starting in peace to see if computer could do any better with Mori. I'm too 'glad' to see the computer ends up the same situation just like me. Historically Mori is strong with its navy and that might explain why Mori won't win in this game since there is NO navy at all!
GShock, your make me wondering if most of the people here don't even know where Mori is and never tried to play Mori before.
Sakura and I made this 1551 scenario for the mod with the changed map and then the developers offered us to add this into the game, but with the vanilla map. So there might be some game balance issues, because we didn't have enough time to test it with the vanilla map. I think the wars need some considerations even for the mod itself, so I don't think it is cheating.
By the way, the Mori in 1551 was historically not too strong. They had a chance, but if Ouchi Yoshitaka was not killed by Sue Harukata, they could not expand their territory so quickly. The problem of the weak Mori in game is too strong Amago on the one hand, and on the other hand the Ouchi tend to fight against the Otomo and they are passive at the eastern front (this is an AI issue), I guess.
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