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Unfortunately I think Mordachai is right.

At this point I just want a refund (yes I know this part of my comment should be posted in the refund thread!) then forget the game ever existed (at least for the next six months) and spend my money on something that will be fun.

In Paradoxes (partial) defence this for me is the first time they have disappointed, then again I've picked up most of there games post first expansion so haven't had to go through the "birthing pains" if any of previous releases.
 
Yes i have tried to play the game. it works. As far as i know. But that blinking just gets on my nerves and i stoped playing. I triedto play it again to see if it was fixed on 11/13/11 and it was still there then i poseted that thread the next day. Just so were on the same page can you tell me what CTD stands for please?
 
Well, apart of this forum i also read other stuff related to Kerberos and SotS. You know, facebook, twitter and etc. I will quote one of Kerberos guys "...I found myself trapped in another city over night..." Uhm, i bet he's developing fixes there for unfinished game they released...in another city. At friday. There are other similar examples, i just won't quote them all. I still hope they are really working hard enough...silly me.
This is basically outside the useful boundaries of the discussion - I'm the guy that posts to Facebook and Twitter for Kerberos... and I'm the team member least integral to working on the game. I can't debug anything, I'm a producer - I can test, I can confirm, I can make small data tweaks. But I can also, and have to, take care of company business, which is what I was doing Friday. This is what is least helpful about Facebook and Twitter. As the primary talk-to-the crowd guy, I post about getting stuck over night in Seattle, as explanation for why social media went quiet for two days (which had people jumping to conclusions about whether the game was being worked on - it was), and that just leads to more people jumping to conclusions about whether the game is being worked on if one dude confesses to being in another city - it was/is. This is why Twitter and Facebook have a tenancy to turn into boring, plain yogurt PR feeds.

i've been thinking about it and i think the thing that most bugs me about the game is that one of the promises was that there would be a "completely new" race with a unique drive system, only it's seven ships, they belong to the Zuul faction (who i can't play at all well), and their new drive system is just a point-to-point drive no more interesting than the Tarka hyperdrive.

The Zuul minions run on their old rip-drive system from the first game. However, once they attract a Suul'ka, they have a psionically powered method of transport. Currently, it's got some wires hanging out and we're working to fix that up. But once final, you'll be better able to see the difference their "drive" system has from the other races. I think you'll be happy. And suitably appalled, when you find out how they can recharge that drive system.

Erm, have you tried to play a game? Sorry, but the CTDs are affecting almost everyone. Just go look at their technical support page and watch the threads grow by the hour.
Crashes the everyone gets are actually the easiest to debug, so when they show up, we pretty much stomp them by the next update. Crashes that not everyone gets are harder to track down, but we are working to winnow them out as best as we can, as fast as we can.

There's a lot of what-should-be-done, both here and on the Kerb forms. We try and talk through it with everyone as much as we can, but that only works up to the point where we actually have to work on the game. And it's made more difficult in that everyone tends to have a different idea of what should be tackled first. A few people here pointed out correctly that AI, while a very high priority with us, isn't the easiest to finish and really, will be a work in progress through this whole process, as everything that's ticking away in the game, the AI has to be set to tock with. If something isn't working properly, or is one of the systems we pulled temporarily, we can't do much with the AI regarding it until it is final. So, we will keep doing as we have been. Low hanging issues are just that - easy, and there's little reason not to take care of them now, even if they're related to something simpler or lower priority. As people in the wild continue to uncover issues we aren't seeing in the dev environment (eg the secondary sound bug, where after the big sound bug fix, some people are still having trouble with certain sound cards), we will work to address them as best as we can. And crashes will always be a priority. We're almost about half-way through the timeline we laid out to address the mess, the fast updates of the first week will be moving towards weekly to bi-weekly updates for the next few as we move away from the more pressing, immeadiate issues to larger, more complex systems, and we will also continue to try and keep everyone in the loop, but there are hundreds of you, you each have a different idea of what "in the loop means", and there are only a handful of us, and we still have to get work done, so up front I will apologize, as the process isn't going to be what some of you want, which is smooth as silk and immediate. But the process is still there and we're still working it.
Cheers,c
 
As a producer, Caste should have checked to make sure steam was releasing the right client. As a producer, it was Caste's job to make sure the game remained on schedule for release. As a producer it was Caste job give a reality check to the rest of team as to the state of their goals. Caste's was also the producter for Fort Zombie and we saw how that turned out. I'm guessing were it not for friendship at any other company Caste would be out of a job a long time ago.
 
My biggest worry on this game is not what Kerberos is working on or how fast they work on it. There is a lot of work to be done and the game isn't really fun in the meantime, so I don't see why people fuss about the order.

What worries me the most is that underneath all the unfinished mess and crashes and all that stuff that I have full faith will be fixed, I'm not really sure that SotS2 is a good game underneath it all.

I'm withholding final judgment until the game is finished, or at least 'finished', but what from what I can see underneath what isn't working doesn't seem to be nearly as good as SotS1. Every simple task has been expanded to a whole process; the best examples being Missions, and Invoices, who's advantages over the standard systems used in every Turn Based Strategy I really can not see. Expanding planets into systems seemed like a good idea to me at first, but tactical combat is a nightmare now, a game of cat-and-mouse that, once AI is working (or worse, multiplayer) will only serve to reduce the appearance of any real fighting. The expanded ship design is wonderful but we've lost a great deal of ease-of-use here as well: I can't simply see a diagram of the turrets available, telling medium from small turrets is unnecessarily difficult, and firing arcs isn't really an exact science now...

I really feel like a great deal of SotS2 was expanded simply for the sake of expansion. That every issue from SotS1 was "fixed" with a system that compounds the problem tenfold, that the "simple to learn" idea was dropped entirely and we are left only with "hard to master". That even withholding the sickening state of its launch, the game is maybe... not good.

I'm not going to damn kerberos for it just yet, of course. There is no doubt to me that my bitterness of being so mistreated by the abortion called this game's launch probably clouds my judgment, and of course that maybe it simply will be more fun once it works. But my biggest concern now is if it will live up to SotS1 at all.
 
It's a matter of taste I guess, I find the missions and multiple planets systems refreshing, doing somthing because it's been done before is boring I'd like to see 4x games evolve rather then stay stagnant.

Warder
 
It's a matter of taste I guess, I find the missions and multiple planets systems refreshing, doing somthing because it's been done before is boring I'd like to see 4x games evolve rather then stay stagnant.

Warder

this. I can see how it'd be not to everyone's taste, and it's not like SOTS 1, but i like it. combat taking a new carrier-focussed style, multiple turns, that kind of thing.
 
I think that the main complains are not really about the mechanics but about the UI, I agree that I'm not that comfortable with the UI as it was a week ago (haven't had time to play since then) but it's keep getting better.

Warder
 
I think that the main complains are not really about the mechanics but about the UI, I agree that I'm not that comfortable with the UI as it was a week ago (haven't had time to play since then) but it's keep getting better.

I hope so. Kerberos can be incredibly obstinate about not changing really bad UI choices. But hopefully...
 
I have a feeling people will warm to the Interface once that nasty transition lag is gone.

Might be, but a simple overlay (darkening the star map while highlighting what needs to be highlighted, with a window no larger than the system+planet information) could have achieved the same functionality a lot more accessible and without any major transition at all.
 
I have a feeling people will warm to the Interface once that nasty transition lag is gone.

Unless the transition lag is caused by the need for the game to calculate choices based not on the fleet you want to use but on the possibilities of the fleets that you can use.
Inherent within that mechanic would be an increasing lag as you expanding the number of fleets as this would increase the number of choices.
 
As i received 5 points of infraction for posting my "complaint" in a wrong forum and was advised to do it here, i WILL do so and post my question here (in this hidden and conspirative place). So heres my old and closed thread, and i would very like to hear some answers, sorted into speculative and official info...:
____________________________________________________

I am curious - have we all been cheated?

I am curious. The state of the game is - and Kerberos is clear in this - ah well, lets say kindly "Beta" version. The amount of patches is somewhat "irritating" to me. Dont get me wrong, i like patches and i like many patches.
But many patches in a short time period leaves the question about the "why". Why has Kerberos released a game for which at least 10 pages of patch notes would have been needed to make it half the way from beta to (not shiny) gold status...?

I am very curious about this for my only answer on this is: We have been cheated. Kerberos released a not really working product KNOWINGLY and on full PURPOSE. If not that, they all dont know how to do their job well.... And with them doing it on purpose, knowing the game is far from ready, i ask myself: may it be that we all were supposed to bring in the money they need to go on some more weeks (perhaps months) and to pay their bread and butter before they have to go into insolvency?

Please, dont do a flame war, i am asking a honest meant question, so please stay at topic...

And i would very much like to hear some official statement to my question...
 
So, I never got round to buying SotS I, played and enjoyed the demo though.

Clearly SotS II is having some issues, but am I still better getting it over SotS I? SotS is on sale at Steam just now too.

Are the biggest problems now resolved/ is it fun/ is the pace of fixing enough that it's worth jumping into now?
 
As i received 5 points of infraction for posting my "complaint" in a wrong forum and was advised to do it here, i WILL do so and post my question here (in this hidden and conspirative place). So heres my old and closed thread, and i would very like to hear some answers, sorted into speculative and official info...:
____________________________________________________

I am curious - have we all been cheated?

I am curious. The state of the game is - and Kerberos is clear in this - ah well, lets say kindly "Beta" version. The amount of patches is somewhat "irritating" to me. Dont get me wrong, i like patches and i like many patches.
But many patches in a short time period leaves the question about the "why". Why has Kerberos released a game for which at least 10 pages of patch notes would have been needed to make it half the way from beta to (not shiny) gold status...?

I am very curious about this for my only answer on this is: We have been cheated. Kerberos released a not really working product KNOWINGLY and on full PURPOSE. If not that, they all dont know how to do their job well.... And with them doing it on purpose, knowing the game is far from ready, i ask myself: may it be that we all were supposed to bring in the money they need to go on some more weeks (perhaps months) and to pay their bread and butter before they have to go into insolvency?

Please, dont do a flame war, i am asking a honest meant question, so please stay at topic...

And i would very much like to hear some official statement to my question...

Well, your points about being cheated has been rehashed a couple of times already. Same as the speculation about them getting bankrupt. I personally had hoped that we will less of those once they have been cleared up.
You will never hear "yes, we have cheated you" from their mouths because in case if it were true it would have legal repercussions. They also claim to be in ok shape in regards of their financial situation.

As about patches - why is the amount of patches irritating? I've played a couple of other games on Steam where a daily influx of patches was normal.
Technically they could put patching on hold and wait 2-3 months and then release a major heavily tested patch with everything in place. But that would have a couple of bad side effects which are easily concluded without me mentioning them, in addition having a couple of patches allows for finer granulation of tweaks and iterations with feedback included. Obviously the game wasn't finished at all. But you know what - despite what people say about the most horriblestest game release in the history of mankind, the universe and all meta-universes around them: I have played a couple of games being unplayable for various reasons at the beginning. The grand majority of them never received a developer comment about the state of their games. Throwing a tantrum didn't help either - literally waiting or parting ways did. I have waited in some case, parted ways in others and never bought a game from them again, in this case however I have chosen to wait. Not asking for a refund, reparation, curing of my hurt soul or whatever - just waiting.
 
I have to say the more I play the more frustrating the game is becoming but I also have to say the more I play the more fascinating the game is also becoming.

I hope they can hang in there because I reckon this game will become a classic
 
Well, your points about being cheated has been rehashed a couple of times already. Same as the speculation about them getting bankrupt. I personally had hoped that we will less of those once they have been cleared up.
You will never hear "yes, we have cheated you" from their mouths because in case if it were true it would have legal repercussions. They also claim to be in ok shape in regards of their financial situation.

Yeah, sorry, that not everybody can spare half his RL reading through this forum....


As about patches - why is the amount of patches irritating? I've played a couple of other games on Steam where a daily influx of patches was normal.

Well, i havent, and i have been collecting some 100 games within the last 10 years or so.... Many patches in daily cycle definatly means either the programmers are having a wrong job as they are not very smart or they are doing this on purpose, as daily patch DEFINATLY means the game is not ready yet and EVERYBODY knows... yet its still released and you cant tell me no one of the programmers knew it isnt...

I have played a couple of games being unplayable for various reasons at the beginning. The grand majority of them never received a developer comment about the state of their games.

Well, reads like: "Yeah, the state of the game is s*** (i make a *** for i probably will get an infraction otherwise.... PI Mods are very very accurate people.... excuse my sidekick) atm, but we get patches and statements"....
Does that make a s**** game better? Does it excuse the bad work of Kerberos? Does it make you feel better having spend your money an a Alpha state released product? Yeah? Nice, but it doesnt for me.... A example on this "quality"? Jowood.... some of the best lineups in games, really devastatingly bad work, never had a really finished product.... and i think they are in insolvency now, as they earn it for their bad work. And they deserve it. Releasing a bad product cant be excused, by no means... and its getting like a pestinlence and cancer all together in PC-gamers-scene... and most of us are supporting this behavior...

Will i buy another Kerberos product? Not in the first 6 months... And they better hope they have enough money to pay their bread and butter that time for i hope i am not the only one punishing them for their bad work, even though they are "working" on it still... Its not the bad work i dont like, its the way to release a bad work and then saying "oh sorry, its a not really good working version... but we will work on it (as it is our job PRIOR launch)". Thats like buying a car with 1 tire and beeing said: Oh sorry, we havent noticed it hasnt got 4 tires.... but we will build you new tires and you will get one tire every months.... meanwhile drive with the 1 tire.... or with your old car...
 
Well, i havent, and i have been collecting some 100 games within the last 10 years or so.... Many patches in daily cycle definatly means either the programmers are having a wrong job as they are not very smart or they are doing this on purpose, as daily patch DEFINATLY means the game is not ready yet and EVERYBODY knows... yet its still released and you cant tell me no one of the programmers knew it isnt...

Let's not stick to the hyperbole: In Kerberos' case we are talk 2-3 times a week so not exactly daily.

You also are commenting it from a very negative angle assuming the worst case scenario by saying the programmers "are not very smart". First off it's not the programmers' call whether to release or withhold a patch. Secondly like I have said they could easily wait 2-3 months to fix it and I have seen companies doing that and it usually does not have the most re-assuring effect on the customers especially in cases that some of the fixes were critical and still were deployed hit'n'miss style.

You are also dismissing or evading another fact, not only they deploy patches rapidly but also communicate with players in the same manner which eventually will help speeding things up as it helps pinpointing issues and flaws better.

Also not to quibble but I often see people trying to emphasize their points by going with hyperboles, you are wrong in that everybody knows, alot players are not developers or even have the slightest insight into software development cycles nor do they care. A game can be steadily patched without the game previously being in urgent need of it per se. It's all up to what the project lead seems to be an acceptable release cycle without breaking things.

Does that make a s**** game better? Does it excuse the bad work of Kerberos? Does it make you feel better having spend your money an a Alpha state released product? Yeah? Nice, but it doesnt for me....

Sounds like you preferred them to be silent in first place but then this wouldn't explain why you want to hear a confirmation (which won't happen ever) about them having cheated. They said it was in bad shape, which more or less already said what we knew already. People wanted to hear more, untrue or not, and as it turns out even if they could it would still not please them. So what exactly would?

A example on this "quality"? Jowood.... some of the best lineups in games, really devastatingly bad work, never had a really finished product.... and i think they are in insolvency now, as they earn it for their bad work. And they deserve it. Releasing a bad product cant be excused, by no means... and its getting like a pestinlence and cancer all together in PC-gamers-scene... and most of us are supporting this behavior...

Disagree. Both Spellforce games were quality-wise okay at release (yes, I bought them both at release, in their German version). It's really Gothic 3's history and the fact that their blockbuster product didn't bring in the cash as hoped, throw in that bad Gothic clone called Arcania and you've got the nail on the coffin. In retrospect it wasn't just their games but their overall management policy which goes years back and beyond the scope of just Gothic 3. Hint: How come a publisher has literally to hinge on one product and force its unfinished release?

its the way to release a bad work and then saying "oh sorry, its a not really good working version... but we will work on it (as it is our job PRIOR launch)". Thats like buying a car with 1 tire and beeing said: Oh sorry, we havent noticed it hasnt got 4 tires.... but we will build you new tires and you will get one tire every months.... meanwhile drive with the 1 tire.... or with your old car...

I have been much disappointed as the majority of 'loyal' buyers but everyone has a different way of coping. I for my part don't see in terms of pragmatism how much lamenting and throwing endless tantrums will help, I prefer actions over words, as such I don't mind the 2-3 patches a week as long as they bring notable improvements. Whether the purpose or reason behind this policy is hinting at a bigger problem or not is irrelevant to me as long as the result turns out as expected. I am pretty sure that this will involve alot of lesson-learning on their part as well, as well as reflecting on policies and whether in the future there is massive room for improvements or not. It is humanly expectable that they knew how far they went and that they won't have a chance to repeat a release like that.
 
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