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AHD DD6 – China

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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Will there be a way for a civilised Substate to reform China in its own image? If the imperial state is the one with the China union tag obviously this can't happen.

A successful Yunnan, for example, that both civilised and achieved GP status should be able to recreate China by absorbing the other Substates. However, unless it concentrated solely on taking down the China union tag Substate there would be no road to unification that didn't involve massive infamy.
 
Wow, such a great DD. All the stuff being put in China is just great and tries the best the game can to simulate real life events. Well done Paradox.

But of course, the last paragraph blew me away! More competition and increased chance at getting CBs? Colonization is starting to pick up!
 
I don't like this at all, I suppose the substates will have the same names as the warlords from HoI (Yunnan Clique, XSM, etc.) most of which shouldn't be in Vicky II in the first place. Great....

I would have preferred some sort of representation of the "Open Door Policy" whereby other nations could only claim treaty ports rather than whole provinces, but I suppose this is the best Paradox could do within the bounds of the Vicky II game engine. Will the Opium War be represented in AHD like it was in the original Vicky?

Troops now once again speed up Colonisation! Cunning coding has been done to convince the AI that sending out troops to colonial areas may indeed benefit them, so it should no longer be a free ride for the player. However, no one likes having competition in their colonial ventures, so when two or more nations are trying to Colonise the same state they will also find it easier to generate CBs on each other, and adding troops into the mix only increases this bonus.
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YES! *does happy dance*
 
I really have mixed feelings about this. The Qing empire was by no means the most decentralized state in the 19th century.

Why not jsut have SOI by state instead of by country (with a bonus if one spheres all states in a country)?
 
Weijun said:
Why not jsut have SOI by state instead of by country (with a bonus if one spheres all states in a country)?
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because it would probably mean 20x more micromanagement and not be very fun.
 
podcat said:
because it would probably mean 20x more micromanagement and not be very fun.
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It could be automated. You could set SOI by country, and then acquire a state at a time. One could prioritize states by population, income, or where there is the least competition. That hardly sounds worse than COTs in EU3.
 
Weijun said:
It could be automated. You could set SOI by country, and then acquire a state at a time. One could prioritize states by population, income, or where there is the least competition. That hardly sounds worse than COTs in EU3.
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It sounds a lot worse to me. You would need to keep track of scores of states, where the AI was increasing its influence, where you were banned, etc.
 
Weijun said:
I really have mixed feelings about this. The Qing empire was by no means the most decentralized state in the 19th century.

Why not jsut have SOI by state instead of by country (with a bonus if one spheres all states in a country)?
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isnt this pretty much what they have done? just not as small?
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
It sounds a lot worse to me. You would need to keep track of scores of states, where the AI was increasing its influence, where you were banned, etc.
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Agreed. SoI-ing is enough un-fun micromanagement as it is.
 
The idea of substates is certainly interesting, but I think limiting it to China is somewhat shortsighted, when this mechanic could be used elsewhere very effectively.

I can imagine applications for the British Empire, the USA (if not for states, at least for Philippines, Cuba, Puerto Rico), French West Africa (the French uniquely made some of their colonies actual departments, legally equal to other departments in France), and the Ottoman Empire (during WW1, for example, the British/French allied with the Arabs to defeat the Turkish and create the modern states of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, etc.)

Of course, for the above applications to be used, other considerations would have to be made. What's apparent in China now seems to be more like a 'marketing substate' than an actual substate or semi-autonomous region.

So far I haven't seen too too much from these DDs that makes AHD highly attractive, and that's unfortunate. Many of the features seem to be fixing problems from Vicky 2 (interface, colonization, reducing China's buying power). So next week give us something sweet and juicy to keep us salivating, yes? ;)
 
Van Diemen said:
Great improvements on China, however will there also be a Taiping rebellion now?
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Given that the new scenario starts during the Taiping rebellion, one would hope it is represented in some way there. As to whether it is represented in a way that is liable to happen in an 1836 start, that might be another matter.
 
HappyFred321 said:
I have a suggestion. It's about borders. When I look at the map in the screen shot I think it would be nice if National borders were more prominant, say a thick black line. But if the border is between substates then it could be as it is in the screen shot so at a glance a player could tell which is a nation and which is a substate. I imagine it would certainly make things easyer for a player if China has fragmented and a substate has become independant.
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I really like this idea.
 
KPJ said:
The idea of substates is certainly interesting, but I think limiting it to China is somewhat shortsighted, when this mechanic could be used elsewhere very effectively.

I can imagine applications for the British Empire, the USA (if not for states, at least for Philippines, Cuba, Puerto Rico), French West Africa (the French uniquely made some of their colonies actual departments, legally equal to other departments in France), and the Ottoman Empire (during WW1, for example, the British/French allied with the Arabs to defeat the Turkish and create the modern states of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, etc.)

Of course, for the above applications to be used, other considerations would have to be made. What's apparent in China now seems to be more like a 'marketing substate' than an actual substate or semi-autonomous region.

So far I haven't seen too too much from these DDs that makes AHD highly attractive, and that's unfortunate. Many of the features seem to be fixing problems from Vicky 2 (interface, colonization, reducing China's buying power). So next week give us something sweet and juicy to keep us salivating, yes? ;)
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I'm fairly certain PDM is going to be using this system as much as it can.

Really I like the substate idea but I don't like as a solution to the soi system. The system itself is fairly boring, and could use an overhaul that would keep large countries from beng all in one nation's SOI. However, as I said, I'm pretty sure PDM is going to take the substates and run with them.
 
I agree with a lot of people here that the substate system could be used effectively in other uncivilized countries as well. I'm thinking of the Janina Pashalik in the Ottoman Empire--a governor gains enough power to be, for all intents of purposes, independent. Except he can't formally declare it as such. (Maybe after researching certain cultural techs, it should be possible... though risky.)
British India could be remodelled this way, simplifying the way the map looks. Also Persia and Afghanistan, giving some more depth to the Great Game. Morocco to simulate the tug of war there between France, Spain and Germany. Sudan, Syria and Lebanon within Egypt, simulating various French interventions in Lebanon, Western powers returning Syria to the Ottoes, Anglo-French rivalry over Sudan, even the Mahdist revolt eventually.

Very promising. Good job Paradox!
 
I like both changes quite a bit. A more interactive colonial game is definitely a huge improvement for Vicky. It would be especially awesome if two countries colonising at the same time could get a CB to determine which of them gets the territory, though that may not be possible in the game engine.

As far as substates go, though, is there any way at all to break them off the master country (even after unification)? I'm thinking specifically here of Japan's puppet state in Manchuria, which would seem impossible to replicate if substates are really unable to be separated no matter what.

Also furthering calls for at least some sort of representation of the Taiping rebellion. Of course it's not going to sell copies the way the US Civil War will, but it's still the bloodiest civil war in the history of the world and really could use some representation.
 
Speaking strictly as a fan like any other, I think it's fitting that China gets this treatment, and I don't see an argument for extending it to dozens of other countries. While it's true that Persia, Afghanistan, Siam and some other has multiple 'spherees' active within them in this period, I really think from a gameplay POV things could get really tedious to have dozens, if not hundreds of new units of sphereing to keep an eye on. Honestly, do you really want to have to monitor that many more sphering priorities?

In most Paradox games there is some issue with China fitting into the general mechanics, because of its unique characterisics and history. I suspect this one will be a great simulation of China in the Victorian era while still leaving room for the player or AI to turn it into the terrifying behemoth it had the potential to become/is becoming as I write this.

Again, these are my views as a fan and nothing more.
 
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