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Thread: The Birth and Rise of the Ishida Shogunate: Volumes 1 and 2 - An A-H Japan AAR

  1. #141
    People's Commissar of the Navy Demi Moderator Avindian's Avatar
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    Really great stuff! In more practical matters, did you do anything to Japan in Vicky 2 apart from changing your country's name? Did you also create a new tag?
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  2. #142
    King of Kings King50000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avindian View Post
    Really great stuff! In more practical matters, did you do anything to Japan in Vicky 2 apart from changing your country's name? Did you also create a new tag?
    He already said in the begining that he would mod Japan a bit to give them so more starting techs, so I'm sure he did a bit more.

  3. #143
    Is the fact that he escaped to Korea foreshadowing? A great update, and nice to see gameplay!

  4. #144
    Unrepentant Literal Democrat Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    Derahan: Thank you and welcome aboard!

    Terraferma: Yes, we're only a few techs away!

    MorningSIDEr: Unfortunately this probably won't be the last time Russia tries to asset itself in Japanese affairs, let's just hope Japan has more generals like Hidetoshi should the Russians try more... direct means.

    Avindian: I had to for the Ikko, but it would have been rather pointless to add a new tag for the Ishida when editing the Japan file works just as well, no? I added a new flag (as you can see), changed the state religion to Catholicism, added one ship (the Kanko Maru), added a few new generals (Ishida Hidetoshi for example), added a series of new political parties (15 in total!), two events and as King mentioned, a series of new techs! As for the Ikko, I gave them 16 brigades (as opposed to 15 for Japan) and a few decent generals, but no cores.

    Omen: Correct! On behalf of our illustrious Shogun Ishida Hidetoshi I award thee the first ever Order of the Rising Sun (6th Class) in honour of your foresight and dedication. Enjoy!



    King: You're right! For the sake of balance and historical accuracy, I've changed the starting techs of different nations numerous times (I was shocked to find when I started my first AAR that the Dutch didn't start with "Stock Exchange" despite inventing the Stock Exchange some 200 years before the game's start!). Here is an incomplete list of tech changes:

    The Sinosphere nations (China, Japan, Dai Nam, Korea) start with the following extra techs:

    * Ad-hoc Money Bill Printing
    * Publishing Industry
    * Military Staff System

    The Ishida Shogunate also start with (for AAR purposes)

    * Freedom of Trade & Private Banks (Shigeru's financial reforms)
    * Clipper Design & Naval Design Bureaus (Mitsunari's shipbuilding program)

    The Netherlands and Belgium start with "Stock Exchange" (the theory for Belgium being that as the Dutch discovered the tech before the 1800's, Belgium would have gained the tech when they were "released" by the Dutch). I tried giving the Ottomans "Military Staff System", but it made them too powerful in regards to Egypt, and so had to remove it. There may be a few other changes to other countries, but I don't recall them at present and probably aren't very important anyways.

    The final and by far the most important change was to the "Meiji Restoration" decision. I apologise for saying that none of the new techs were required for westernisation, I made this mod way back in 1.1 and unless I'm totally mistaken, FoT was not required back then. Furthermore, for story and pace reasons I had to change "Breech Loaded rifles" (which would have delayed westernisation to 1850 at the absolute earliest) with "Muzzle Loaded rifles" and significantly lower the score requirements. Japan did not westernise historically because it repeatedly initiated humiliation wars against Brunei and Johore, and I certainly did not want to ruin the plausibility of my AAR by resorting to such gamey tactics.
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  5. #145
    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
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  6. #146
    Part Time Warp aldriq's Avatar
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    That was a quicker affair than I thought, I was somehow expecting a much more bloody, guerilla resistance in the north but then that wouldn't be very bushido-like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhang (譚張) View Post
    ...added a series of new political parties (15 in total!)
    I mistakenly thought Japanese politics would be simple Clearly I don't know much about Japanese politics, apart from the fact that prime ministers over there resign far more frequently and honourably than their European counterparts (who sometimes have to be dragged out of their offices kicking and screaming).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhang (譚張) View Post
    Japan did not westernise historically because it repeatedly initiated humiliation wars against Brunei and Johore, and I certainly did not want to ruin the plausibility of my AAR by resorting to such gamey tactics.
    That's the problem with the sandbox rules, you have to have them to allow anyone the potential to westernise, but it leads to a very mechanical/gamey progress if you know them.
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  7. #147
    The Article Beggar Derahan's Avatar
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    Those changes you've done seems interesting, you've caught me

  8. #148
    The 45 Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    Seems I've come in at the best possible time.

    I always reduce the requirements for westernisation myself so dont really see a problem with you making it a bit easier. Its a very interesting alternate history you got here. Now lets see the rest of the world move.

  9. #149
    Unrepentant Literal Democrat Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    Zzzz...: Oh most definitely an excuse, though truth be told Hidetoshi would have tried to annex Korea whether Munenari was living there in exile or not.

    Aldriq: Though it would have come to a shock to most Japanese who lived through the mid-20th Century, Japan has historically had a dynamic multi-party system (in a country which was still technically an Absolute Monarchy, oddly enough). Of the 15 parties, three aren't really parties at all (the three factions we have heard from so far in this AAR) and two are Fascist, and therefore won't have much role to play in the AAR. That leaves only 10 parties, some of which will merge with other parties while others will grow extinct as time passes and situations change. Not so many after all eh?

    You're dead right on Japanese PMs having a penchant for resigning, the Japanese tolerate no failure from their politicians! One of the advantages of this gameplay-wise is that it makes calling snap elections more plausible.

    Derahan: I'm glad!

    Tommy: Long time no see, how's things? I do think that some of the requirements for westernisation are quite silly and unrealistic, and make uncivs less appealing to play. Hopefully the changes coming with AHD will rectify this somewhat.
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  10. #150
    Unrepentant Literal Democrat Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    Following in the Taiko's Footsteps: (1837- July 1838)


    Seikanron:


    The Civil War had been won and the reactionaries crushed, but the land was still in a phase of transition, and like any such transitional phase, there were growing pains to accompany it. With peace comes economic prosperity for all except the soldiers and undertakers, and it was the former group that now started to get uppity. Partly out of loyalty to their Shogun and partly out of loyalty to their faith (A large proportion of the military rank-and-file were drawn from the western provinces, and were hence staunch Catholics) the army had gone along with Hidetoshi's reforms and fought with valour and zeal during the Civil War, but with peace at hand the soldiers and samurai were no longer needed, or so they thought, and while some were able to integrate into the new armed forces of disciplined ranks, rifles and flashy, deep-blue uniforms; others did not and grew resentful.

    Regardless of which profession, unemployment is not something any sane government would want a surplus of; the Ishida Shogunate was no exception. Japan's martial tradition meant that there were many trumpets for the soldiers cause, both in and out of the Kizokuin. As a general himself, even the Shogun was sympathetic, proving he was more than just Commander in Chief of the Army in name. The soldiers had had mass support but what they really needed was a job, and by extension a war. But where and with whom? One candidate stood out amongst the pack: Korea.

    First and foremost, the Japanese and Korean peoples shared a common genetic heritage, much in the same way an Englishman shares a common genetic heritage with a German or Celt. Secondly, the geographic distance - or more accurately the lack of - made Korea an ideal addition to the Shogunate's burgeoning Empire. Thirdly, Hideyoshi's failure to annex Korea was still seen as a blemish of Failure on an otherwise successful sheet. Ishida Mitsunari had purposely left this stain unwashed out of respect to Hideyoshi, (for to clean it would be to suggest that he was in someway "better" than Hideyoshi) and his successors had followed his example. Hidetoshi had no respect or reverence to a man he denounced as "Hideyoshi the Apostate[1]" and thus had no fear of trying to best him. On the contrary, Hidetoshi hated Hideyoshi and the "Cult of the Toyotomi" (as he called it) and would have probably liked nothing more than to triumph where Hideyoshi had failed. Fourthly, Korea was rich in timber, iron and coal, and could prove very useful to Japan once it industrialised.

    This is not to say an invasion of Korea had no opponents. The middle class merchants, that great bulwark of the Shogunate's support, were concerned that a war with Korea would hurt their pockets. Trade with Korea was not quite as valuable as it once was, but trade with Qing China was still a lucrative business. Korea was a de facto Qing province, a vassal, which as Ryukyu had once done, paid yearly tribute to the Qing Emperor. A war with Korea would surely attract the ire of Beijing, and outright annexation might result in all-out war, a war which Japan could not hope to win (at least at this point in time). A second objection came from the liberals and westernisers, who believed that a nation in the process of westernising was in no place to fight an international war, that it would somehow stymie the process. Samurai and soldiers would be better off "repatriating" to other "industry friendly" professions, such as craftsmen or clerks, they argued. Thirdly, those daimyo who adhered to the "Cult of the Toyotomi" insisted on maintaining the old party line, that audacity against the Taiko was apostasy. This stuffy old argument carried little weight in Hidetoshi's Catholic Japan and even if it did, Hidetoshi wasn't exactly the kind of man to let precedent or tradition get in his way.

    The fact of the matter is the benefits for annexing Korea outweighed the penalties. Korean and Chinese trade was important, but not as important as that with the Dutch, British or Portuguese. Korean iron was no inferior to that which the Japanese had been importing from Mexico for centuries, but a lot cheaper. Indeed the only intelligent reason for Japan to not invade Korea was that history might well repeat itself, that the Qing would intervene on the Korean side and with it's superior manpower, bleed Japan dry in a war of attrition just as the Ming had done in Hideyoshi's time.

    Tempers flared in the Kizokuin as the pro and anti-Seikanron[2] groups locked horns. This was an issue which crossed faction lines: some clans such as the Shimazu in southern Kyushu were strongly against, while Otomo Takeshi of northern Kyushu was just as strongly for. In the end Hidetoshi supported it and loyalty to the Shogun prevailed; the motion was passed with a substantial majority.



    With the debate over, Hidetoshi was free to prepare the nation for war. The spectre of Qing intervention remained, not to mention the potential negative reaction from the international community. Hidetoshi had learned enough from his hero Napoleon that infamy was the undoing of many a great empire. What Hidetyoshi needed was an excuse to keep China out of the war, it would be okay if they objected to it - they probably would - but as long as they did nothing about it Japan was safe, for the time being at least. Ironically he found his answer in Date Munenari, who was living in exile in Korea. Hidetoshi sent an official request to the Korean government demanding Munenari be extradited to Japan along with the Emperor's young son the crown prince, who was to be kept in Japan as a hostage for a period of ten years. Hidetoshi stressed that Munenari was guilty of high treason, and that by housing a traitor Korea itself was becoming implicated in his treason, hence the need for a hostage to ensure Korea's "neutrality". If Korea refused, Japan would resort to force. Hostage taking wasn't as accepted in Korea as it had been in Japan and Hidetoshi knew the Emperor wouldn't accept, that was the idea. Predictably Korea refused and one month after the resolution of the Seikanron issue, the Shogun felt that preparations were sufficient to declare war. Fortunately for Japan, China did nothing more than lodge an official protest.



    The Japanese Annexation of Korea:


    Japan opened the war with an amphibious assault on the beachheads of Pohang and Wonju on the coast of central-eastern Korea, Ishida Hidetoshi once more leading the charge himself. Once the major fortifications in those two provinces were under siege, Hidetoshi and Otani Yoshinaga moved their troops westward to the Capital in Seoul and the nearby port of Incheon respectively. It was here that the Japanese encountered real Korean resistance for the first time.



    Back on the home front, the Koreans had launched a daring (read foolhardy) amphibious assault of their own, trying to capture Nagasaki. Fortunately Hidetoshi had kept a reserve of 9000 men nearby, who were more than ready to engage the enemy. Meanwhile, Japanese officers had finally grown accustomed to modern European tactics and organisation, and the quartermasters back home began preparing to replace Japan's antiquated flintlock muskets with new Muzzle-loaded rifles from Europe.




    Having won such resounding victories, the Japanese army grew complacent. On the 20th of may Hidetoshi had crushed a Korean army twice the size of his own, led by a competent Korean general (and I use the word competent loosely). Confident that Hidetoshi had routed the Koreans utterly at Seoul, a contingent besieging Wonju was sent to intercept the Royal Korean Army at Taejon.



    The Koreans were less routed than the Japanese had thought, and rallied around their General Jo Mok. The resulting battle would be the only Korean victory of the war. It wasn't all bad news for Hidetoshi though, The Korean blunder to capture Nagasaki was defeated by the Japanese reserves on the same day.



    The defeat at Taejon shook the Japanese out of their complacency, and lulled the Koreans into theirs. Jo Mok marched his troops northward to relieve Seoul, confident of victory. He was sorely mistaken, and shocked by Hidetoshi's resilience, retreated to Kangnung where his Royal Army defeated once and for all[3]. The Japanese had recaptured the momentum.



    With the threat of a second Korean invasion of the Home Islands unlikely, the victorious reserve army of the Battle of Nagasaki were redeployed to Taejon to cut off the new recruits training there.



    With the Korean Royal Army annihilated, Jo Mok was forced to resort to guerrilla tactics to harass the Japanese. Bands of untrained, undisciplined and disorganised troops - about 3000 in number - were quickly raised to repel the Japanese. They were no match for Hidetoshi's organised troops, and squashed like flies wherever they appeared. Time was now on Japan's side, Seoul and Incheon were under Japanese control while Hidetoshi and his commanders split up their divisions to occupy the rest of Korea more swiftly.



    As the war drew to a close, the Koreans tried one last ditch attempt to turn the tables on the invaders. Using what precious ships they had, a group of diplomats was sent on an urgent mission to Beijing to meet with the Qing emperor and hopefully, bring the Dragon into the war on their side. The Japanese navy got wind of the plot and intercepted the Korean "fleet" before it could leave Korean waters.



    The Mainland all but under Japanese occupation, the armies in the south were tasked with capturing the last bit of land under Korean rule, the tiny island of Jeju.



    With every inch of Korean land under Japanese rule by the 12th of July, even the most ardent Korean patriot had to admit that the Japanese had won and their nation was finished. The Emperor of Korea was forced to abdicate, but his life and place in society was spared, as was that of his relatives. The former Emperor would live out the rest of his days as the Duke of Seoul, a member of the Japanese nobility. His former nation was annexed into the Ishida Shogunate while the refugee who "started it all" (officially, at least) fled to Manchuria, and from there into Russia. How he got there or how long it took him is unknown, but the next time anyone heard from Date Munenari he was living in exile in Moscow.



    The State of Affairs in Europe (1836 - 38):


    Japan was nether the only nation to suffer a Civil War or launch a punitive expedition in those first years of Ishida Hidetoshi's reign. Spain was almost torn asunder by Civil War, the latest chapter in the long-standing Hapsburg-Bourbon rivalry. Unfortunately for poor Spain, it would neither be the first nor last such war its people were forced to put up with. Fortunately for the Bourbons, the Civil War remained a local affair without any foreign interventions and with the majority of the Spanish people behind them, the Bourbons were swept to victory[4].


    In other news, France annexed the Tunisian Sultanate


    To the north of Spain the Prussians were up to no good in Denmark, the first rung on the ladder to a Prussian-run "German Federation". The Danes had long forgotten their warlike, viking heritage and grown into a weak, decadent and peace-loving country most unlike Japan or Prussia and were therefore no match for the Prussians. Originally intending to recapture just the German populated Schleswig-Holstein, the war proved so successful for Prussia that they expanded their demands to cover all Danish territory in mainland Europe. The Danes accepted, and were most fortunate in that the Prussians weren't quite so demanding as their Japanese counterparts had been with Korea.

    Finally The Dutch tore up the Treaty of London and declared war on the rebellious Kingdom of Belgium. Japan naturally sympathised with the Dutch and offered to fund the Dutch war effort, a gesture which was greatly appreciated in Amsterdam. The British, acting as the "Guardians of Belgium", intervened on the Belgian side.


    Motivated more by the desire to conquer Suriname than the desire to prop up Belgium, Britain helped turn the Dutch War of Unification from a walkover for the Dutch to a more even matched contest. Nevertheless, Hidetoshi's sympathies lay solely with the Dutch.

    Notes:


    [1] Technically Hideyoshi wasn't an apostate because he never was a Christian, but you get the idea.

    [2] Literally "Debate to Conquer Korea", Seikanron was a real event which took place in 1873. The "fors" were led by Saigo Takamori while the antis were led by Iwakura Tomomi and Okubo Toshimichi. The antis won out, more because of economic reasons than because of any fear of Qing intervention. Saigo Takamori would go on to incite the pro-Samurai Satsuma Rebellion against the Meiji government he helped form; the basis for the "Samurai Rebellion" in the movie The Last Samurai

    [3] Apologies, but I think the battles in the below screenshot were placed in the wrong order. Silly me.

    [4] I've used the Carlist rebels as stand-ins for the Hapsburgs, and the Isabellinos as stand-ins for the Bourbons.
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  11. #151
    King of Kings King50000's Avatar
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    Great update. The new sources of cheap iron and timber should quickly fuel the Japanese industry to new heights, and we could begin to see some actual soldiers amongst the Japanese army as well, instead of just irregulars.

  12. #152
    Wizzaard Estonianzulu's Avatar
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    Korea defeated, now I imagine its only a matter of time before conflict between Japan and China (and apparently Russia) breaks out I imagine.
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  13. #153
    The Article Beggar Derahan's Avatar
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    Great update! Now i'm really interested where this is going

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  15. #155
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    Very glad to see Hidetoshi living up to his 'audacious' tag, I think he made entirely the right choice to invade Korea heedless of Hideyoshi's legacy. What makes capturing Korea all the more enjoyable is the fact that Munenari helped bring about the nation's downfall. That this rebel has actually proven more of an aid to Hidetoshi's reign, helping to bring about the annexation of a nation rich in resources able to greatly aid Japan's industrialisation, than a hindrance I think quite wonderful.

    Still his escape to Russia through China does seem rather foreboding. Hopefully Japan can westernise soon.
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  16. #156
    People's Commissar of the Navy Demi Moderator Avindian's Avatar
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    I almost always go after Korea, regardless of which country I'm playing, unless it's Prussia or US and I don't really need the coal/timber.

    I think the Dutch aren't going to like the way that war turns out...
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  17. #157
    Basileus Romaion Nikolai's Avatar
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    Now to keep Korea with the Chinese so big and mighty...
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  18. #158
    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
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    I think it's time to announce that the emperor is no longer divine. This is Catholic Japan and we only have one God, our Lord Almighty.
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  19. #159
    Upgrading all those irregulars to regulars will be the first step before challenging a European power, but I can't wait to see what happens next.

    A well fought war and entertaining update.

  20. #160
    Unrepentant Literal Democrat Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    Thanks everyone! It's been such a long time since I've received so many comments so shortly after posting an update.

    King: Japan's big problem at this stage is that it has lots of soldier pops (over 200, close to 300 by 1840) but no arms industry! Even as a GP the small arms we need to start promoting those POPs to infantry are hard to come by.

    Estonianzulu: I hope not! China still has a larger standing army than Japan, and though I could raise an army larger than China's, I'd prefer to wait until I can raise professional troops rather than relying on irregulars. Then again, if the right opportunity were to present itself...

    Derahan: I'm not entirely sure where this AAR is going myself!

    Tommy: Even without Java or Korea, industrialisation with Japan isn't difficult. Once you know what you're doing industrialisation with any nation is easy if you have enough POPs.

    MorningSIDEr: Korea is such a natural choice for Japan's first colony, Hidetoshi would be mad not to take it! If anything, Munenari brought it on himself: If you're going to choose a country to live in exile, its a good idea to choose one that your old country wouldn't want to annex - I think he's learned his lesson this time though.

    Avindian: I almost never go for Korea unless I'm China, Japan or maybe an audacious Russia. I like to play a somewhat historically accurate game. It serves the Dutch right - they really should have waited for the Belgians to become a GP, it's what Prince Frederik would have done if he were king.

    Nikolai: I actually loaded up as China to see how they were doing and was pleasantly surprised to see the AI doing everything right. China has a large standing army and are beelining the techs for Westernisation, so unless the UK decides to do something about it Japan might soon have a powerful rival to contend with!

    Zzzzz: The Emperor's divinity claim is a Clause Four type principle: only a few nutjobs actually still believe in it, but to condemn it is to commit blasphemy, literally. Should infamy inexplicably rise I might use the "divinity debate" as an excuse, other than that I have no real plans to mention the Emperor at all.

    Omen: I'd love to do that, but small arms are in short supply right now. It may take a decade or so to get all the supplies we need to build up a standing army befitting of a martial nation like Japan. Until them Japan will have to shrewdly play the diplomatic game.
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