State of the Game

That's imo some pretty outstanding PR quotes you found there. It really does sound all nice and fluffy there in lala land doesn't it? In a perfect world I am sure that's how they'd love to do stuff all the time...and I'd love to be a millionare all the time too. Life sucks tho.

I'm sure this game will eventually be fine. I pre-ordered this product because of support, I don't want to turn to million selling console fps games ever! The thing I just don't tolerate is lying. Like whoops we sent the beta release, things like that just don't happen.

Instead of letting customers wait for the right "upload" you should just have admitted that there was/is problems with the game and you are working on it, the regular customers would have bought the game later but i'm sure the fans like me would have bought it anyway, just for support.
But please do not lie to us.

Echo76 said:

I'm sure this game will eventually be fine. I pre-ordered this product because of support, I don't want to turn to million selling console fps games ever! The thing I just don't tolerate is lying. Like whoops we sent the beta release, things like that just don't happen.

Instead of letting customers wait for the right "upload" you should just have admitted that there was/is problems with the game and you are working on it, the regular customers would have bought the game later but i'm sure the fans like me would have bought it anyway, just for support.
But please do not lie to us.

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If they would have told us the truth, then we wouldn't have paid $40 for an unfinished game.

So, you see, this is actually our fault, not theirs. (sarcasm)

I haven't yet bought the game, but I will, eventually.

I do agree with the widely-held sentiment that releases such as this can not and should not happen. I was just re-considering my buy-at-discount policy after the flawless release of Sengoku. Now, I'm pushed back towards a skeptical position, specifically considering the new release-and-dlc-policy announced for CKII. While I acknowledge that CKII is a different and internal project which appears very polished at this point, the fact is that PI as publisher made the final call to publish a game in a terrible state yet again.

I refuse to believe that PI was caught unaware by the state of the game, and if that is in fact the case it points to either incompetence or negligence. While I continue to stand by Paradox and believe that things will be made right eventually per usual, do not assume that standing by your product in this case will turn out to be a badge of honor. It can be seen as a point of pride only if the initial release is a good, playable product and the subsequent support makes the product great.

The promise to stand by your product after a terrible release instead becomes a moral duty. The 'we always deliver great long-term support' argument that Paradox so often has to bring out in these situations thus becomes devaluated because so much of that support is out of sheer necessity.

I feel that PI at this point owes its community a full post mortem and a plan for a long-term solution if only to assure the fans that future releases will not yet again suffer such problems. Otherwise, the effect of this release will be felt for many more releases to come, and justifiably so.

I do understand those users who are used to bigger companies and more polished releases, and they have all the right to complain.

For my part, I just want to say I trust Paradox and I trust Kerberos. The reason is that they have always delivered, and delivered well, in the past.

Regina said:

If you decide to ask for a refund, we absolutely respect your decision.
But we hope that you stay with us and give us a chance to update and improve the game.

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Hi Regina,

There have been a few comments by Paradox staff about a refund. I have already submitted the form that you linked to earlier and I got a reply from Impulse saying they are waiting for confirmation from you.

I would like to know when we can expect refunds to be issued?

Regards,
Amir Abiri.

I've just had a reply from Fredrik asking to contact Paradox again on Monday.

I'll wait until Monday but I expect to see a clear statement about the refund policy by Paradox then.

Hope you all have a good weekend,
Amir Abiri.

amirabiri said:

I've just had a reply from Fredrik asking to contact Paradox again on Monday.

I'll wait until Monday but I expect to see a clear statement about the refund policy by Paradox then.

Hope you all have a good weekend,
Amir Abiri.

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Hi there Amir!

Vi are still looking into it, so if you want refund or compensation,
please e-mail: support @ paradoxplaza .com

We hope to be able to post a clear statement about the refund policy in the beginning of next week,
we will keep you updated!

All the best,
Regina

Finfyd said:

First and foremost, some of us have pre-ordered from the likes of Steam and D2D who state in bold red ink that no refunds will be made for this game. This is typical for digital only orders apparently, and possibly illegal in some states. While I personally would like a refund I am willing to wait and see if the game gets fixed. I loved the first game, I love the genre in general.

Secondly, you really must be friggin deluded to think that your fans and the consumer in general will sit back and accept the fact that this game is not ready for release, and that a 4 day late "patch" which will certainly only address a few bugs and not all of the missing promised content is acceptable behavior from any company trying to sell a product. Its like me buying a new car missing tires and a steering wheel. Sure the motor turns over, and it can move if I pop the clutch, but its only going to move a little in one direction before it explodes.

I'm sure you and everyone concerned (I use that term lightly) are working hard to fix this, and address all of the responses being made. I hope that there is a plan, and that one day this game will work as intended.

While some of the more politic requests for an update are nice, I think that someone, maybe your President or whomever is in charge, should address this debacle, and give a specific and complete list of what is missing, and when it will be fixed. An accurate and updated accounting of where YOU stand and when and how you plan to fix it.

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Hey there Finfyd!

We are looking into compensations and refunds,
so if you wish to refund the game - please e-mail support @paradoxplaza.com
Hopefully we have an official statement early next week so that you get information on the policy!

I completely understand that people are upset and that is why we are looking into compensations and refunds.

I absolutely don´t expect people to accept that the game has issues,
but I do hope that people at least give the developers a chance to improve the game and wait for the first patches to kick in before asking for refunds.

And I was actually quoting the devs when I said that we will know more as soon as the patch is out on Monday.

Kerberos have said that they will have a much better overview of the schedule of updates to come during November after the first patch.
So we will definitely try and give you more detailed and specific information on the coming updates in the beginning of next week.

All the best,
Regina

Regina said:

...
I absolutely don´t expect people to accept that the game has issues,
but I do hope that people at least give the developers a chance to improve the game and wait for the first patches to kick in before asking for refunds.
...

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Paradox published so many games I loved in the past.
Kerberos' love in Sots can everbody see who played Sots in the past.

Because of this two facts, i'll wait till Monday.
Both had done a big mistake with this release ... sure.
Hope, they will learning from it.
Such mistakes cost a lot of reputation. But ...
"Shit happens"

I'am sure, sots2 will be a very nice game in a couple of month.

Hm.

At first i was mad, super mad, for the steam thingy, the game not working at all, and all that.

After a good night of sleep, i woke up, and this post made me realize i can't be mad at you guys, you are really too nice and respectfull as a company, plus i have the feeling that all the rage in the world has already been given away on this forum for 2 days.So, You know what? I'm giving it a shot, i'm in. Even if it takes 3 month, at the end it's going to be awesome, i feel it from the 5 minutes i was able to play without crashing, and well, if i could have paid less for the game in two month, i don't care. I will see that as "support for little companies who make awesome games for intelligent people". Not a large consumer pool, they probably need to sell a few full priced copies.

I remember HOI3, and how SLOW it was, and buggy as hell. Now it's a super-awesome game and i barely play anything else (except Sots). It was worth waiting, so i'm gonna wait a little more. Life's long. ( English not my native language, please forgive the mistakes, it's one of the longest posts i've made on this forum )

I'm keeping my license.

I'm in this for good.

I love what I can see in SOTS II and I know it will be great. But by pulling away now, that would only make completion of the project much more difficult -- for everyone. If we all stick together, we can make this work!

I just hope this doesn't turn into another Elemental War of Magic.

There was a great deal of "We'll fix it" about that game 14 months ago. The devs made all sorts of promises. It took about 9 months for it to be playable and in all honesty - it really isn't very good now (to fix some things they simply removed them from the game).

I own almost everything Paradox, Matrix and Stardock and Shrapnel have ever put out.
Hope this can be fixed soon. This was my most anticipated game this year.

Still, Paradox have an excellent record of putting things right (which Stardock also used to have) lets see how the next week or two pans out.

It's not as bad as Elemental. Sots II is essentially a fun game that needs polish and bug fixes while Elemental wasn't fun. That's why they've decided to make a new game instead after fixing the bugs at Elemental.

I agree with Caddy. The issue with Elemental wasn't so much that it lacked polish and wasn't done, but that the fundamental design was flawed. It just wasn't fun and it didn't work on the "game level". In some ways, it was similar to Civ5, which also had bugs and a laughable AI at release, but above all suffers from design issues that can't be fixed in patches because the whole game is build up on them (cf. 1UPT which doesn't work on Civ-sized maps).

It's different with SotS2. The design is solid, just like SotS1. It is "only" unfinished on a technical level, but has a sound design. It just needs time and dedication, and I think anyone who has played SotS1 knows how dedicated Kerberos is. Paradox themselves also have a good reputation of being very loyal to the games they publish, so there is little doubt that both developer and publisher will support the game for years to come.

I'll definitely let them keep my money, because I know what a fantastic game this will evolve into.

Hopefully Kerberos will get the game patched soon so it is at least playable. While I haven't had much experience buying from Paradox, I did purchase SotS at launch and have been playing it ever since. Kerberos has always been straight forward when SotS had problems and pretty quick with patches and updates. Like Ordo I am keeping the faith but it is sorely bruised at the moment.

fiallach said:

Hm.

At first i was mad, super mad, for the steam thingy, the game not working at all, and all that.

After a good night of sleep, i woke up, and this post made me realize i can't be mad at you guys, you are really too nice and respectfull as a company, plus i have the feeling that all the rage in the world has already been given away on this forum for 2 days.So, You know what? I'm giving it a shot, i'm in. Even if it takes 3 month, at the end it's going to be awesome, i feel it from the 5 minutes i was able to play without crashing, and well, if i could have paid less for the game in two month, i don't care. I will see that as "support for little companies who make awesome games for intelligent people". Not a large consumer pool, they probably need to sell a few full priced copies.

I remember HOI3, and how SLOW it was, and buggy as hell. Now it's a super-awesome game and i barely play anything else (except Sots). It was worth waiting, so i'm gonna wait a little more. Life's long. ( English not my native language, please forgive the mistakes, it's one of the longest posts i've made on this forum )

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Inspiring, and your english seems better than that of some Americans I know ;P

SOTS 2 is no where near the state Elemental was and is. I still can't even run the thing.

I seriously doubt that SOTS2 won't be fixed for the most part in 6 months. Probably a lot sooner.

I am looking forward to when SOTS II *actually* comes out. I might even buy it at full price when it does so.

As things stand, I'm glad I didn't preorder. As a company, I trust Paradox and Kereberos to fix SOTS and make it playable and enjoyable - their track record on such can speak for itself.

In the mean time, I'm not going to spend my money on the product until I see these concerns are addressed and resolved.

idea: Make it kinda-like The Witcher 2: Release patch 2.0 with some cool free stuff added (a pack of new hull designs for each race, or something alike) and all of the previous & new fixes marking the "intended version" for the customer. (although: Witcher 2 was actually a great game since the release, with patches and FREE DLCs making it only much better ever since, not just fixing the issues of incomplete release)

So that we'd know when SotS 2 *actually* comes out