State of the Game

I know that sometimes mistakes are made, but between the poor release conditions HOI3, Mount & Blade series, and now this... no matter how much I enjoy the design of the games, I do not think you're team, either from Devs of publishers, is technically capable of delivering on those great designs.

I'll stick it through with SotS2 but I think I'm done with your games for a while, sorry. Over and over again I'm burned and am asked to exercise patience and faith. "Faith" is not something we should need to enjoy video games, an entertainment product. Hopefully a more competent team will arrive, either devs or publishers at the least, for in-depth strategy games in the future. But until then, I can now see why Syndicate and XCom are being remade as generic FPS, even against the will of the fans.

Maybe I'll check out some future titles on steam sales, in the $2-$5 range, as I suppose that is how much these titles are becoming worth. But certainly, never a preorder, never again.

Thanks for the statement. Most of my zeal/anger/frustration comes from my excitement for the product. Here's hoping things are patched in weeks, not months!

Et tu Kerberos? No matter how amazing your response is to this I will NEVER trust your advertisements on a developing game EVER AGAIN! I would have been absolutely fine if you delayed again or disclaimed the beta condition of your product. How when confronted with the reality of SotS II's condition did you arrive at "Hush Hush until we have their money"? It is downright shady and irresponsible, if not outright fraudulent. I'd better see a reason not to ask for a refund within 7 days. If this is not playable after seven days I will not only demand a refund in full, but abstain from any of Paradox's future products (Even Vicky 3 and HOI 4, that's how pissed I am!)

well i will say this right, its because of pre- ordering system, its unseen any where else that you get part of stuff, tv, audio, video, or by a pc or a car, u get full package, check and can chose by or not if it doens satisfy you by any means, and in this situation, they give you like a cat in a bag, and hope maybe it will slip away for some, in some games updates dont even come afther that, and you end up with nothing, you pay just for marketing trick and advertizing, i doubt its the way to save money on game development, does your managers and even CEO thinks that people dont get upset and if they do they stop supporting you, after one or two fails, why not clear your name, its show that its a mess in company itself no organization no structure of testing delivering system that works and no bugs, i mean big enough that cant slip thru, small let it be, but this one, what if this will becomes constantly one after another, you guys realy need discipline and planing, not free lesure like dev like. but hope that this not repeat itself again, please fix the game and let us enjoy !!

P.S. If you're so sorry how come there are still NO DISCLAIMERS on any of the sites selling your game? It's like saying "Sorry that bear trap hurt your leg, We'll call 911 as soon as we're done re-setting it" That is the MOST DISGUSTING part of your response so far!

cool

its awesome to see that all the sots fans seem so understanding. On other game that didn't work on release people would yell and scream, a lot. Personally i am like most of the rest, id like to say thanks for responding and doing something about it asap, the first sots really grew as a game over time and i am sure it will be the same with 2. Look forward to seeing you all on sots 2 again soon!

Hi,

I'm sorry that you guys have a crisis on your hands, I know the feeling all too well as I'm a software developer myself and I've been there before when a major release goes south.

However, I am going to ask for both copies of the game that I bought to be refunded. Yes, I bought the game twice. Once from Steam, but then when I saw at what awful state it was and given that your website was dead slow, there was no communication and I got no response from the Steam support, I bought the game again from Impulse with the hope that maybe the problem is with Steam.

This is how much I was looking forward to this game, that I didn't mind at all paying double the price to get a working copy of it. This is the only game I've bought in months as I'm currently very busy trying to set up my own business. Sots II was the only indulgence I was going to allow myself during this period. This is how much I love your work.

Imagine how disappointed I am right now.

To be perfectly honest I am a little bit puzzled how such a big blunder can happen between two companies who have already released major titles before as it is very simple to check. Furthermore the communication were less than adequate, Kerberos' website is still down, Steam's support is non-responsive, and this post appears 24 hours after the release.

I really hope that you guys get everything sorted out and If and when such a time comes that your product reaches an acceptable state, I will be more than happy to buy it again. Until then, as I said, I would like to have both copies that I bought refunded and I will wait and follow the state of things.

All the best,
Amir Abiri.

Why, instead of apologizing, didn't you come clean and told us the current state of the game? We would be happy to try stuff out in Beta while we waited for the real thing. This was outright dishonest and a post in a forum doesn't erase that.

It's time to stop calling this a "blunder" or a "mistake". And it's not like Paradox was relying on this one title to keep it's doors open. This was an out-and-out cash grab with no consideration for Paradox fans, who are among the most loyal in the undustry. Up to now.

HBernstein said:

It's time to stop calling this a "blunder" or a "mistake". And it's not like Paradox was relying on this one title to keep it's doors open. This was an out-and-out cash grab with no consideration for Paradox fans, who are among the most loyal in the undustry. Up to now.

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Right... That's why they're offering refunds to anyone who wants one, right?

This is actually quite funny if we compare the business models.

1. Release unfinished game after promising a full retail version and then use the customer money to patch it to acceptable state, like was done with this game.
2. Tell people to pay for beta and give a promise to release the full game. Good examples are Minecraft and Mount & Blade.

As you see in both approaches it is the same thing: customers pay for an unfinished product and thus funding the company to finish it. However in the first approach you have angry customers wanting their money back, in the second approach customers are loving supporting fans.

What should Kerberox and Paradox done in this case? Postpone the entire game until it is finished, but give the pre-order customers a "privilege" to an early "beta" access (which is the current released game). That psychological approach would make us feel privileged for "exclusive access", that we wouldn't even complain about the lack of features, but instead give feedback on many problems. Everyone is happy, developers get funding. It's a win-win situation.

Damn, I should apply for the marketing department at Paradox...

HBernstein said:

It's time to stop calling this a "blunder" or a "mistake". And it's not like Paradox was relying on this one title to keep it's doors open. This was an out-and-out cash grab with no consideration for Paradox fans, who are among the most loyal in the undustry. Up to now.

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Damnit people! stop speculation about these damn conspiracy teories! Thats right HBernstein, you are just making conspiracy teories, you have no evidence for you claims, you are just trying to flame this forum, go to steam forum if you have to do that. Paradox forums should remain civil. Paradox is not a bad company just because they did a mistake in communicating the state of this release.

DavidwMiller said:

Right... That's why they're offering refunds to anyone who wants one, right?

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Right... They are giving the money back so they did this just for the bad publicity and alienating their fanbase, right ?

Dear Wester and staff at Paradox,

While I am certain every one wishes the game to be stable and playable as the rest of us, I find that the current release status of the game is unacceptable and disappointing.

I would like to point out that this is not the first Paradox game that this has happened. I would like to quote your statement made to Ars Technica regarding Magicka which had a similar launch issue. (source:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...rs-what-went-wrong-how-its-fixing-magicka.ars)

So if Wester could go back in time a week or two with the knowledge of what happened, what call would he have made? "With that advance knowledge, we would have held the release a few weeks to test and fix the connectivity under more realistic circumstances to avoid the situation where people cannot connect properly to games online, instead of being limited to hot seat and LAN to enjoy Magicka," Wester told Ars.

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I believe the a similar mistake of not holding the release back has been made for the release of Sword of the Stars II, a game that I really want to like, and the same solution is proposed.

Now the job is clear: fix the game, get people playing, and then the word will spread about the quality of the game itself rather than the bugs. "The development team is working around the clock and we will get this fixed," Wester promised. "We will make this right."

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As it is now too late to withdraw the release the game and the inevitable scathing reviews it will get regarding the initial release, I sincerely hope that this no longer occurs for future releases from Paradox.

Thank you.

Xmasbeer said:

This is actually quite funny if we compare the business models.

1. Release unfinished game after promising a full retail version and then use the customer money to patch it to acceptable state, like was done with this game.
2. Tell people to pay for beta and give a promise to release the full game. Good examples are Minecraft and Mount & Blade.

As you see in both approaches it is the same thing: customers pay for an unfinished product and thus funding the company to finish it. However in the first approach you have angry customers wanting their money back, in the second approach customers are loving supporting fans.

What should Kerberox and Paradox done in this case? Postpone the entire game until it is finished, but give the pre-order customers a "privilege" to an early "beta" access (which is the current released game). That psychological approach would make us feel privileged for "exclusive access", that we wouldn't even complain about the lack of features, but instead give feedback on many problems. Everyone is happy, developers get funding. It's a win-win situation.

Damn, I should apply for the marketing department at Paradox...

Click to expand...

;D that was i good one, i my self give you a post of marketing director go ahead and work for socialists

Xmasbeer said:

This is actually quite funny if we compare the business models.

1. Release unfinished game after promising a full retail version and then use the customer money to patch it to acceptable state, like was done with this game.
2. Tell people to pay for beta and give a promise to release the full game. Good examples are Minecraft and Mount & Blade.

As you see in both approaches it is the same thing: customers pay for an unfinished product and thus funding the company to finish it. However in the first approach you have angry customers wanting their money back, in the second approach customers are loving supporting fans.

What should Kerberox and Paradox done in this case? Postpone the entire game until it is finished, but give the pre-order customers a "privilege" to an early "beta" access (which is the current released game). That psychological approach would make us feel privileged for "exclusive access", that we wouldn't even complain about the lack of features, but instead give feedback on many problems. Everyone is happy, developers get funding. It's a win-win situation.

Damn, I should apply for the marketing department at Paradox...

Click to expand...

I think it's easy enough: 1. is a shady practice, 2. is at least honest and leaves customers an educated choice. I wouldn't even bother if they charged premium for a pre-alpha, so long as they would have told people beforehand.

And it continues to shock me how badly the 4x market is mishandled by the gaming industry. Average 4x gamers are a little older, have a little more money, and are definately willing to pay as much as they have to for the perfect game. Most of us probably own every decent 4x game out there right now, am I right? Honesty and Patience are always virtues, but in this particular case it would also be very sound business. The 4x Audience can be relied on to shell out whatever price on any 4x game that looks good enough to be "the one," and those developers that actually pull it off are rewarded with tons of money, tons of word of mouth, and tons of time to develop a sequel which they always rush and screw up.

4x games aren't like other games, and neither are 4x gamers. Devs and Publishers need to remember that.

I agree. I bought both Minecraft and S.P.A.Z. knowing full well that they are not finished products, but I wanted to support the developers and have fun with the games in their current states.
I know Kerberos will get SotS 2 to the specs in time, but it is still very much a beta version now.

Gibimus Maximus said:

And it continues to shock me how badly the 4x market is mishandled by the gaming industry. Average 4x gamers are a little older, have a little more money, and are definately willing to pay as much as they have to for the perfect game. Most of us probably own every decent 4x game out there right now, am I right? Honesty and Patience are always virtues, but in this particular case it would also be very sound business. The 4x Audience can be relied on to shell out whatever price on any 4x game that looks good enough to be "the one," and those developers that actually pull it off are rewarded with tons of money, tons of word of mouth, and tons of time to develop a sequel which they always rush and screw up.

4x games aren't like other games, and neither are 4x gamers. Devs and Publishers need to remember that.

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The problem being that we are just too few to make a real difference. I do not think there is much money to be mad with 4x games anymore, maybe the trend towards DLC improves a bit on that.