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Fredrik II said:
This should have been handled in a much more professional way from both us and the developer.
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Given that mistakes happened, I actually think you guys have done a good job of handling things so far. I downloaded the game on steam, had problems, logged in here and immediately found the sticky thread saying that the wrong version was uploaded, and then a number of updates through the night. With it being past midnight on friday night in europe by that point, I appreciate Paradox's willingness and efforts to keep us in the loop.

The decision to publish with the game in the current state I have an issue with, but I think your communication has been handled well.

That willingness to be up-front with us and Paradox's track record of post-sales support has bought you a lot of slack as far as I'm concerned.
 
I haven't gotten the game yet, but I will. One of the reasons why I will get the game is because of Paradox. I have always been treated fairly from Paradox. I like how Paradox can apologize. Not many companies do this anymore and it does go a long ways. It's amazing how a simple "sorry" can go along ways.

After the debical of Civ V, I do not pre-order games anymore, and never get on dayone release. I was going to get the game yesterday, but only after reading user comments. If this was any other company, I wouldn't bother with SotS II, but since it is Paradox, I will get the game, because of how Paradox handles the situation, but only once the hicups are over come. So instead of a Day One release day sale, it will be a Same Month sale. Just making sure everything will be ok, since I do not want another Civ V again. Just making sure I am doing my homework first.
 
Davor said:
Just making sure I am doing my homework first.
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General consensus is that the game has the potential to be magnificent if and when all features are working and more documentation is added so you can actually know what does what. It seems like a step forward from Prime on some levels, but nobody could have played for long enough to have an educated opinion yet. It is a 4x game after all.
 
Davor said:
I haven't gotten the game yet, but I will. One of the reasons why I will get the game is because of Paradox. I have always been treated fairly from Paradox. I like how Paradox can apologize. Not many companies do this anymore and it does go a long ways. It's amazing how a simple "sorry" can go along ways.

After the debical of Civ V, I do not pre-order games anymore, and never get on dayone release. I was going to get the game yesterday, but only after reading user comments. If this was any other company, I wouldn't bother with SotS II, but since it is Paradox, I will get the game, because of how Paradox handles the situation, but only once the hicups are over come. So instead of a Day One release day sale, it will be a Same Month sale. Just making sure everything will be ok, since I do not want another Civ V again. Just making sure I am doing my homework first.
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its basicly the only reason, how they treat customer that paradox is on the high level and we love it for it
 
Classy as always. Your willingness to engage with even an angry community, and your track record of putting things like this right, go a long way. Thanks, Fred, and good luck with this.
 
I really appreciate how you admit mistakes have been made. Most companies in the gaming industry wouldn't even bother to do that. I just hope this really gets sorted out. The franchise itself lost a lot of credibility with many gamers over the last 24h, and rightfully so.
 
I dont understand that if the game was in this state at launch, why didnt your marketing team just pull a minecraft? set the price at 39.99 and say 'youre opting in for a beta! help build the game'. People wouldnt be pissed off.
 
Sunfighter said:
I dont understand that if the game was in this state at launch, why didnt your marketing team just pull a minecraft? set the price at 39.99 and say 'youre opting in for a beta! help build the game'. People wouldnt be pissed off.
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Because then they wouldn't get the money needed to keep in business long enough to get any real release out. The bait and switch tactic that they and other developers have been using lately is the only way they can afford to work so long on a game. They know that if they hype it up enough people will preorder and when they release it is too late for the customers to do anything about it, can't get a refund or anything. All they can do is just rage and wait for them to patch it and hope that they forget about it by the next time they release a game and do the same thing.
 
Being sorry and apologizing is graciously accepted. In fact, it's the least anyone can do.

So when will we have a release-quality game on our hands ?

What exact amends is Paradox planning to make for knowingly/unknowingly selling us a beta version without prior notice, at full price ? (giving away soundtrack DLC which we cannot yet actually use doesn't really cut it I think)

What happens if Kerberos again miss their deadline and fail to provide us with a complete game ?

I am sorry, I live in the real world. I am willing to listen to anyone as long as they take the time to say something meaningful.
 
So true, Sunfighter!

I love this kind of game and I would pay a small fee to participate in a well run beta program to make an awesome 4x. It's a simply thing, really.

Underestimating the fan base, and I am mainly thinking of forum participants here, really constitutes a brain drain in terms of development time.
I'd be happy to provide feedback and play test a game in almost any state if that means the finished product becomes better.
 
It's a mess, and Paradox and Kerberos know it. The particulars of why it happened the way it did are really less important at this stage than making sure that you all get the game you expected and the game you deserve. I know that many people on the development, production and marketing teams have been pulling very late nights and will for the next few weeks to address concerns, get a quality build of Sword of the Stars II out and hopefully restore the trust that both Paradox and Kerberos have worked hard to build.

This is not a game that is going to be left unfixed or unaddressed or unimproved. We all believe in Sword of the Stars II and believe that the team can deliver an excellent gaming experience. There has been some confusion, some hiccups, and some legitimate failures on our parts.

But if you know anything about Paradox and Kerberos it's that they know that their livelihood is based on listening to the concerns and complaints of their communities. Both have developers and producers actively engaging in discussions, answering questions and trying to find solutions. If there is no quick and satisfactory reply, it's often because the last thing they want to do is put out more confusion or misleading information.

We hear you. We understand you. We're sorry. We'll fix it.
 
@Porcius I keep hearing these kind of comments. They seem kind of contradictory. You make the devs out to be some benevolent figures who really care about us and want us to be happy. I would like to believe this. But they are a BUSINESS. And a business is always going to worry about the bottom line before their customers. If they truly cared than they would have informed us prior to the release that the game was not finished and that we would be purchasing a beta. This would have been acceptable. However, they knew that to do so would mean less sales so they continue to let us believe that they will be releasing a finished product. I have no doubt that they can eventually patch it and make it a great game, this is not in question. The problem here is the bait and switch tactics that they and other developers have been using. WE ARE NOT BETA TESTERS WE ARE CUSTOMERS.
 
Alastes said:
@Porcius I keep hearing these kind of comments. They seem kind of contradictory. You make the devs out to be some benevolent figures who really care about us and want us to be happy. I would like to believe this. But they are a BUSINESS. And a business is always going to worry about the bottom line before their customers. If they truly cared than they would have informed us prior to the release that the game was not finished and that we would be purchasing a beta. This would have been acceptable. However, they knew that to do so would mean less sales so they continue to let us believe that they will be releasing a finished product. I have no doubt that they can eventually patch it and make it a great game, this is not in question. The problem here is the bait and switch tactics that they and other developers have been using. WE ARE NOT BETA TESTERS WE ARE CUSTOMERS.
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what he said!!!
 
Welfur said:
First of all, a big thx for the update.
But sorry if I take that with a grain of salt.
The same things were said bei the guys from Stardock. And they never delivered.
I give you all the benefit of the doubt. But now you have to deliver.

Apology accepted but still higly sceptical.
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We are sorry for the situation,
but we have complete confidence in the Kerberos development team and we believe in this game.

The developers are working very hard to update and patch the game,
they truly love their game and will support it for as long as it takes.
I completely respect that you are skeptical, but we will deliver.
 
I appreciate that company folks are showing up to apologize.

That said: when you know you don't have a finished game, yet still sell people pre-orders for a finished game, it's not really 'mistake' or "failure" territory. It's 'crappy thing we intentionally did' territory.

I liked SotS, and I'll be happy to pay for SotS II whenever it's actually ready to go.

This isn't.

It's got menus, game modes, and other features that are supposed to be in the game but aren't.

It's got crashes galore, half the time it freezes when I try to confirm game creation.

It chugs along way slower than it should - I've got more than minspec on everything but graphic card and I've turned all settings to minimum so it should not be this choppy/laggy.

It should not have been released, and everyone at paradox/kerb had to know it but decided to release it anyway, and then rely on weeks/months of patches to get it finished. Not cool.

I'm asking gamersgate for a refund, using some copy&paste from this post. Their refund policy says that if you have issues that keep you from running the game, your computer meets spec, and their tech support guys aren't able to get the game working right, they'll issue a refund.

It's worth asking.

Let me know if when it's done and I'll happily repurchase. But I didn't pay forty bucks for a game that won't be done for at least weeks and possibly months.
 
Alastes said:
WE ARE NOT BETA TESTERS WE ARE CUSTOMERS.
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Surely even a Beta would be at the stage where it was actually playable. I believed Beta meant thoroughly testing a pre-release version to identify problems and suggest workarounds. The 'mystery meat' style of play I am encountering here - e.g. I try to build a station...only Science is not grayed out although I have no idea why...I am asked to select placement, which turns out to mean clicking on my construction fleet...then I am taken to a system view...here I see a planet with thee grey-green round blobs and one blue arrow-shaped blob...having clicked on all four blobs, plus the planet, I give up and exit the game - prevents even beta-testing.
 
Porcius said:
But if you know anything about Paradox and Kerberos it's that they know that their livelihood is based on listening to the concerns and complaints of their communities. Both have developers and producers actively engaging in discussions, answering questions and trying to find solutions. If there is no quick and satisfactory reply, it's often because the last thing they want to do is put out more confusion or misleading information.

We hear you. We understand you. We're sorry. We'll fix it.
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No you wont. The problems with quality of Kerberos releases has been a problem for 5+ years. This release is no different than Fort Zombie. People who point it out like myself get attacked flamed and banned. This Sots2 release is just more of the same behavior from an entrenched developer and rabid fanbase that is incapable of self regulation or making changes internally.
 
I think the fanbase knows that Paradox and Kerberos will get this game running soon, but that's not the concern/issue. Most of us can't figure out why you would release the game in its current state and cut yourself in the wrist by doing so. Yes, the game was #1 in Steam sales which will provide Kerberos with some nice monetary income which will help them to survive and keep this game alive for a long time, but still you risk getting bad reviews and anger the customers. I just can't understand why ...
 
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