State of the Game

[anaris]

Steam is a little bit bad, but I don't get why people would flat-out refuse to use it. Anyone care to message me and explain why they're so set against it?

[Xmasbeer]

My only problem with steam is the lack of a privacy option to hide what you are playing and your playing statistics. I like having a friends list, I don't like them bugging me about the state of SOTS2 as soon as I launch it.

[ChinpoUK]

My only problem with steam is the lack of a privacy option to hide what you are playing and your playing statistics. I like having a friends list, I don't like them bugging me about the state of SOTS2 as soon as I launch it.

You could not sign in to Steam Friends, that way you can play without being bothered by other people.

[greywolf1]

Seli: I wasn’t saying your number is wrong. It looks a bit high in my mind, but it’s possible. My point was that Steam isn’t going to ATTRACT customers and is keeping away others.

anaris: I don’t want to turn this into an anti-Steam thread. Steam or not Steam is a personal decision, both for Kerberos and Paradox (as developers and publishers) and for me (as a customer). I don’t blame Kerberos and Paradox for their decision (nor do I blame people for buying Steam-based products), but I react to it by not buying such a game (because of Steam, not because of the screwed-up launch).
Reasons in short:
- Steam adds another and unnecessary layer of technical complexity to my PC environment, something that can fail or go wrong. I don’t want this risk.
- Steam doesn’t give me any value, but I have to pay for it (that’s Steam’s business purpose, or why do you think they are interested in SoTS2?).
- I don’t want spyware and patronizing software on my PC, if I can help it (Windows itself is already bad enough in that respect).
I read that I don’t need Steam to play SoTS2, just to install and update it. That’s different from Steam’s normal procedures, where you need Steam to play, too, but this doesn’t invalidate my 3 points.

I was introducing Steam into this discussion because I like the approach the Kerberos CEO is taking, and their approach to resolve the issues, and am hoping to get a similar explanation for why Kerberos is going the Steam route, and what they think the customer value of Steam is.

[foothill]

Personnaly, I've grown to appreciate Steam. Not the customer service wing of Steam, but the large array of content available from one spot part of Steam. They have discounts constantly, the ability to save some games to the cloud, and, well it makes sense. As Steam grows in popularity, more digital content providers will mirror this theme.

(Not to mention the whole automatic update feature is incredibly useful)

[greywolf1]

Xmasbeer and foothill: If you like and appreciate Steam, then it's fine for you.
But I don't like it, I simply want to play a game, without all the rest, which has nothing to do with the game itself. Why can't I get SoTS2 (and other games) without a Steam account? In that respect, Steam is very different from other game distribution platforms, like Impulse or Gamersgate, for example. I have nothing against Steam as an option, but everything against a mandatory Steam account.
If Steam were so convinced that their system is beneficial for their customers, they could leave the decision for or against this system to their customers, or even charge extra for this system (instead of getting all customers to pay indirectly, via the price of the game). But the customers can only choose between buying the game with Steam or not buying the game at all. A decision, which has nothing to do with the game itself.

To return to Kerberos: A gaming company, especially a small one, which is interested in selling their games and becoming known for their good games, shouldn't make it more difficult for customers than necessary to buy their games. I hope they are aware that they are supporting the monopolistic strategy of Steam, just like all the Steam customers, deliberately and intentionally or not.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll now stop writing more posts about Steam in this thread. Maybe the Kerberos CEO bothers to explain what the customer value of Steam for SoTS2 is, and why they chose to support Steam's monopolistic strategy - after all, they did accept that people can't buy SoTS2 without a Steam account.

[elsyf81]

Xmasbeer and foothill: If you like and appreciate Steam, then it's fine for you.
To return to Kerberos: A gaming company, especially a small one, which is interested in selling their games and becoming known for their good games, shouldn't make it more difficult for customers than necessary to buy their games. I hope they are aware that they are supporting the monopolistic strategy of Steam, just like all the Steam customers, deliberately and intentionally or not.

I see plenty of alternatives to buy the game @ http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-ii so yes, you can buy the game without a steam account.

[Xmasbeer]

Xmasbeer and foothill: If you like and appreciate Steam, then it's fine for you.
But I don't like it, I simply want to play a game, without all the rest, which has nothing to do with the game itself.

I know how you feel. I felt like selling my soul to the devil when I read Origin EULA and accepted it just to try BF3 beta. Still can't bring myself to buying that game because I know I will have to re-install that damned Origin again.

What I hate the most is that we are in the middle of a online game delivery client wars. I can predict that eventually Steam and maybe few others come out victoriously so that we only run one or two of those clients, while all others *cough*Origin/GFWL/Uplay*cough* die as quickly as possible.

I know you are angry that Steam takes a cut of your money, but for all it's worth, know that developers get a much bigger cut per sale than if they would sell it through a retail distributor.

[Lor Dric]

Got to have a steam account to download and patch though

[Ordo Impavidus]

Maybe the Kerberos CEO bothers to explain what the customer value of Steam for SoTS2 is, and why they chose to support Steam's monopolistic strategy - after all, they did accept that people can't buy SoTS2 without a Steam account.

If I were to guess, using only Steam has probably lessened the work-load in terms of patching/updates/ect from an all ready compromised (less staff, low funded, ect) company.

[ChienAboyeur]

But I don't like it, I simply want to play a game, without all the rest, which has nothing to do with the game itself. Why can't I get SoTS2 (and other games) without a Steam account? In that respect, Steam is very different from other game distribution platforms, like Impulse or Gamersgate, for example. I have nothing against Steam as an option, but everything against a mandatory Steam account.
If Steam were so convinced that their system is beneficial for their customers, they could leave the decision for or against this system to their customers, or even charge extra for this system (instead of getting all customers to pay indirectly, via the price of the game). But the customers can only choose between buying the game with Steam or not buying the game at all. A decision, which has nothing to do with the game itself.

Makes too much sense for an early hour reading. Too much clear thinking to be accepted now. Too much game centric analysis. Game is secondary in gaming today. Will have to go back to heal up from this brutal head to head with reality and get up fresh and replenished with correct indoctrination: game is secondary to gaming today.

[xgstriker]

Ive heard alot of people say how bad paradox games are because they release buggy but ive never heard of another games company release a buggy game then try their hardest to fix it thumbs up

LOL i bet they LOVE people like you!

[xgstriker]

Steam is a little bit bad, but I don't get why people would flat-out refuse to use it. Anyone care to message me and explain why they're so set against it?

Steam (Valve corp) has an "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau. They are horrible to customers if you have a problem and they are known to use false advertising and not refunding if called on it. Read it all on the BBB web site.
I hate steam but i use it because i have to for some games. Its really lame.

[s1234567890m]

Steam (Valve corp) has an "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau. They are horrible to customers if you have a problem and they are known to use false advertising and not refunding if called on it. Read it all on the BBB web site.
I hate steam but i use it because i have to for some games. Its really lame.

Im sure if steam paid there 'fee' they would have a better rating

[Xmasbeer]

Steam (Valve corp) has an "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau

You mean this BBB?

In 2010, 20/20, an ABC network news magazine, reported in a segment titled 'The Best Ratings Money Can Buy' about the irregularities in BBB ratings. [8] They reported that a man created two dummy companies which received A+ ratings as soon as he had paid the membership fee. They also reported that business owners were told that the only way to improve their rating was by paying the fee. In one case a C was turned to an A immediately after a payment and in another case a C- became an A+. Chef Wolfgang Puck said that some of his businesses receive Fs because he refuses to pay a fee. Ritz Carlton, which does not belong either, also receives Fs for not responding to its complaints.[7]

Riiiiiiight.... really credible. Hey, their name alone is a deception, you can't call yourself a "bureau" if you are not government sanctioned as one.

[greywolf1]

elsyf81: I said I would drop out of this discussion. But I need to make a comment / ask a question here: I checked the internet link you mentioned. It lists all shops you can buy SoTS2 from. That’s Steam plus a couple more. The issue is that I can buy SoTS2 elsewhere, yes, but not without a Steam ACCOUNT. I wouldn’t mind buying from Steam as a company (and if I purchased SoTS2, I would probably get it from Steam directly, instead of dealing with Steam plus another company).
It’s the Steam ACCOUNT and its implications I object to.

I did a quick random check on a couple of the outlets offering SoTS2. There is at least one, GameStreamer, which doesn’t mention Steam. It lists SoTS2 as DRM-free even! Not that I believe it, but does someone know for sure whether or not this is true?

Just imagine: You buy SoTS2, you activate it via Steam, and then you play it totally free! You go back to Steam for patches only. Is this what they mean by saying that you need Steam for activating but not for playing? If true, this could almost make me reconsider my attitude towards Steam :-). But I can’t believe Steam is so “lenient” when it comes to DRM.

[Lor Dric]

elsyf81: I said I would drop out of this discussion. But I need to make a comment / ask a question here: I checked the internet link you mentioned. It lists all shops you can buy SoTS2 from. That’s Steam plus a couple more. The issue is that I can buy SoTS2 elsewhere, yes, but not without a Steam ACCOUNT. I wouldn’t mind buying from Steam as a company (and if I purchased SoTS2, I would probably get it from Steam directly, instead of dealing with Steam plus another company).
It’s the Steam ACCOUNT and its implications I object to.

I did a quick random check on a couple of the outlets offering SoTS2. There is at least one, GameStreamer, which doesn’t mention Steam. It lists SoTS2 as DRM-free even! Not that I believe it, but does someone know for sure whether or not this is true?

Just imagine: You buy SoTS2, you activate it via Steam, and then you play it totally free! You go back to Steam for patches only. Is this what they mean by saying that you need Steam for activating but not for playing? If true, this could almost make me reconsider my attitude towards Steam :-). But I can’t believe Steam is so “lenient” when it comes to DRM.

That is how they explain it, its up to the devs whether steams DRM is used. Paradox said they didn't use it on this game.

[greywolf1]

Thanks, Lor Dric - this sounds interesting.
Let me ask a very precise question: Assume I install and activate SoTS2 via Steam. Then I de-install the Steam software from my PC and switch off my internet connection. Will I be able to play SoTS2? If yes, Steam wouldn’t be different from other online vendors, as far as SoTS2 is concerned.
That I would have to re-install Steam for patches is clear. And that Steam’s normal “protection features” could be switched on again with every patch is also clear. But I admit, this might change the picture for me indeed.

[s1234567890m]

That has been said many times over the discussions on steam. Yes, but you would need to move sots2 out of the steam folders for it to work

[Buddahcjcc]

I see plenty of alternatives to buy the game @ http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-ii so yes, you can buy the game without a steam account.

I bought it at a non steam site, they redirected me TO steam after I paid for the game. Id be surprised if that didnt too