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Thread: (MOD) 399 a.d.

  1. #221
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Hi Micro! Many thanks for extensive game testing!

    WRE's modifiers can be found in event_modifier file in common folder, as westromedecline, so you can change to e.g.- 50% and let me know what you think, and if ther is a better balanced modifier.

    Are also looking at introducing a Foederati concept.... to be continued.

  2. #222
    Dovahkiin Filip de Norre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    Thanks.
    I have played as Roma between 399 and 411.

    First some minor notes:
    * The nations you can choose from in the bookmark should be changed, maybe Roma, Constantinoblis, Franks and one or two other nations.
    * Many ships are not visible. Only if they carry military units they are visible with only the unit avatar and flag visible. I noticed the Visigoths, Jutes and the Picts have this error. Maybe other countries. My own were visible. I dont know if missing graphical_culture might be the reason. However, land units are visible.

    The game:
    In this game a lot of nations declared war against me right from the start like normal. And like in the other games it was very difficult to deal with all those enemies. To quickly end some of the wars I had to accept to give away a lot of provinces to Franks and Visigoths. The Burghundians and Alamanns I could hold off with the military I could afford with the remaining provinces. Most other wars I could end accpeting peace by paying some or little money.

    But now I had a lot of revolts going on and a Africa usurper was created, but I could end the war relatively quickly with a peace offering. In 407 I had peace for the first time... With the remaining provinces I could not have enough military to deal with the revolts so about 409 my country broke down and Gallia, Rhenia, Hispania, Britannia, Pannonia was created from the rebels and I got stability 3 again... When the country broke down I also got a lot of military but that exeeded the force limit, so I had to delete most of them.

    Conclusion:
    IMHO the correct balance is not in place at the moment. You can try to train a lot military to defend youself in the wars, but the force limit is too low to do that. You can train enough to just reach the force limit, but you will not have enough military power to defend. You could concentrate on defending certain provinces, and then accept peace with the nations you have no chance winning against. But the longer the wars the more rebels you will have. And which way you ever take the result will be the same. You will loose your provinces and end up with a smaller Roma and a lot rebels, and Roma will eventuelly break down. If you can hold your enemies and the rebels off the usurpers will take your provinces. When the peace is over, you enemies will declare war again... wars never end.

    I think the country modifer westromedecline is too drastic. -75% land force limit, -75% tax income, -75% manpower, -50% naval force limit... its just too much together with the wars that are started and the usurpers and the results of that meaning high WE and rebels. No matter what happens, after maximum 10 years Roma will be reduced to no more than one or two handfull of provinces.

    Could I have done anything that could have produced a better outcome?

    In all my games ERE holds almost the same provinces as when the games started even if its modifers are -25%. We could reduce the modifers for WRE to -50% or -40%?
    The problem with "locked" modifiers, is that it also removes the fun from playing them.

    The best way is to give them some starting modifiers which can be removed step by step, at the cost of stability, gold and magistrates, and each step needs higher and higher centralization and government tech.

    That ERE keep what they have is good. Shouldn't really have that many problems. Remember ERE held about this size until Islam came. Shouldn't really have that high disadvantage. Both WRE and ERE should have low penalties. Instead they should start at war, and have loads of cores on each others, and loads of events, missions and such to drive them against each other.
    Germany: 7
    Brazil: 1

    ¿What the f...?


    Magna Mundi cancelled! Can't stop laughing!

  3. #223
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filip de Norre View Post
    That ERE keep what they have is good. Shouldn't really have that many problems. Remember ERE held about this size until Islam came. Shouldn't really have that high disadvantage. Both WRE and ERE should have low penalties. Instead they should start at war, and have loads of cores on each others, and loads of events, missions and such to drive them against each other.
    I don't think that ERE and WRE should start at war, they didn't fight any wars during the mod's timeframe (399 AD - 821 AD) . The empire broke up the last time in 395 AD when emperor Theodosius died. The halves didn't fight each other after that.

  4. #224
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filip de Norre View Post

    The best way is to give them some starting modifiers which can be removed step by step, at the cost of stability, gold and magistrates, and each step needs higher and higher centralization and government tech.
    Interesting ideas! Will think about that, and at least initially look at reducing WRE negative modifiers over time.

    Have you tried the latest version out?

    Apart from that, I agree with XVG: WRE and ERE should not start at war. They may DoW each other later on but that's part of game mechanics...

    In any event, a good WRE strategy at start is to immediately ally with EREand get some relief from them...
    Last edited by AKronblad; 03-01-2012 at 16:08.

  5. #225
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    v0.7 released, download link available in first post of this thread.

    Main focus is rebalancing the game with respect to WRE. Let's see how it turns out... Please try it out with a remote small country so you can just observe the development at highest speed a couple of times to see tendencies in the game (anyone overpowered / underpowered / blobbing / strange actions, etc.) And if there is anything you like, please let me know that too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    In any event, a good WRE strategy at start is to immediately ally with EREand get some relief from them...
    Thats what I did in most of my games... The games that I forgot ERE also declared war.

    In all my games I reached -100 prestige with -33%/year for uncontested claims. What does uncontested claims mean? Is that all the cores I have on the provinces I have lost and on ERE? If yes that means I have to get those provinces back to have any chance of getting better prestige. Or give away cores in peace deals.
    Last edited by Micro; 04-01-2012 at 03:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    v0.7 released, download link available in first post of this thread.

    Main focus is rebalancing the game with respect to WRE. Let's see how it turns out... Please try it out with a remote small country so you can just observe the development at highest speed a couple of times to see tendencies in the game (anyone overpowered / underpowered / blobbing / strange actions, etc.) And if there is anything you like, please let me know that too...
    Cool thanks!

    I will grab the new version and play around with MttH for usurpers and modifiers for WRE to find a playable balance.

    I read that you have increased MttH for usurpers to 720 months. I have been thinking about it. If my calculations are correct, since there are 9 events that each can create an usurper and each event have 720 months we have an effectually MttH for one of the usurpers of 720 / 9 = 80 months = 6.666 years.

  8. #228
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    Cool thanks!

    I will grab the new version and play around with MttH for usurpers and modifiers for WRE to find a playable balance.

    I read that you have increased MttH for usurpers to 720 months. I have been thinking about it. If my calculations are correct, since there are 9 events that each can create an usurper and each event have 720 months we have an effectually MttH for one of the usurpers of 720 / 9 = 80 months = 6.666 years.
    thanks for game testing. your calculation is roughly correct, please just note that there are 10 usurper possibilities. plus that this is for the FIRST usurper (720 / 10 = 6 years). For a second, it is roughly 720 / 9, for a third 720 / 8, etc.)

    Let's if you get same as me: WRE almost immediately DoW ERE...

  9. #229
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    It seems that the change in the event which gives troops for the tribes, causes several problems. A player knows that the event will trigger when at war, but the AI doesn't. So the AI won't attack. I suggest changing it back, because now the only way the Germanics expand is with the Foederati events and decisions. And if they get to a war with Rome they are easily defeated despite the extra troops.

  10. #230
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XVG View Post
    It seems that the change in the event which gives troops for the tribes, causes several problems. A player knows that the event will trigger when at war, but the AI doesn't. So the AI won't attack. I suggest changing it back, because now the only way the Germanics expand is with the Foederati events and decisions. And if they get to a war with Rome they are easily defeated despite the extra troops.
    Ok, will have a look at this. Thanks for feedback!

    1. Would it be different AI wise to have it as a DECISION instead?
    2. Is in your view the reason for them being easily defeated that added troops are too few, or that they are attacked and hence unprepared?

  11. #231
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    1. It won't make any difference
    2. They are attacked and unprepared and other nations aren't at war with Rome at the same time and Rome can use all it's units against them.

  12. #232
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XVG View Post
    1. It won't make any difference
    2. They are attacked and unprepared and other nations aren't at war with Rome at the same time and Rome can use all it's units against them.
    Ok, so maybe a combination then: still getting the above in times of war, and in addition receiving some troops at game start?

    Also, please keep in mind that barbarians very often ally quickly so other WRE enemies will quickly step in with fresh troops too.

    Another way, in addition to the above, would be to make them have existing alliances already at game start.

  13. #233
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    Ok, so maybe a combination then: still getting the above in times of war, and in addition receiving some troops at game start?
    That would be a good idea, but it needs to be tested, that the tribes will attack Rome.

  14. #234
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XVG View Post
    That would be a good idea, but it needs to be tested, that the tribes will attack Rome.
    Agreed to that should be the tendency, however not all of them and not always immediately.Will definitely require some finetuning.

    Will implement an attempt plus some alliances, like Alamanns and Burgundians (because the latter leapfrogged the former's territory to the west in real life). Any other thoughts?
    Last edited by AKronblad; 04-01-2012 at 17:11.

  15. #235
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    I noticed that you have used Roman names for the monarch names of Prydein. You might be interested in this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ngs_of_Britain
    And here is some for Gaul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gallic_rulers

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    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XVG View Post
    I noticed that you have used Roman names for the monarch names of Prydein. You might be interested in this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ngs_of_Britain
    And here is some for Gaul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gallic_rulers
    Perfect, thanks! I completely forgot about changing that when moving to non-roman cultures.

  17. #237
    General Dutchling's Avatar
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    I just tried this mod (playing as Franks) and it's a lot of fun. I just got some 'war with the Romans event' giving me a lot of troops and bonuses because I allied the Huns and I answered their call to arms.
    Versus Constantinople :P... You might want to add a modifier to the event that you should actually border one of the Roman Empire in order for the event to fire, as this seem easily exploitable, even if you didn't intend to like me.

  18. #238
    Caliph of Córdoba XVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    Perfect, thanks! I completely forgot about changing that when moving to non-roman cultures.
    Here is some for the Hispanics:
    Corocotta
    Gausón
    Punicus
    Cesarus
    Caucenus
    Viriathus
    Tautalus

    They are Iberian/Hispanic leaders who fought against Rome during Roman conquest of Hispania. Sadly I haven't found more yet.

    This might help, too. (The ancient Celtic ones)
    http://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/ancient-celtic
    Last edited by XVG; 04-01-2012 at 21:26.

  19. #239
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    I used version 0.7 to play as a small Asian country observing what was going on in Europe. The game started in 399 and I played on the fastest speed until 450.

    In the beginning everything was normal. A lot of countries in war with Roma. The Franks had some land in the north and Visigoths had some land to the east. Until around 420 Roma declined loosing land in France, Britain and Spain to either rebels og usurpers.

    Roma managed to hold the remaining lands and got +3 stability, but still -100 prestige. And the provinces had less revolt chances and revolts. The new surrounding countries began to go to wars with each others and Roma had a chance to recover and began slowly to take back it's provinces. Around 430 Roma reconquered Spain. By 450 Roma had recovered provinces in Balkan and France and had also managed to reconquer provinces in Africa and ERE provinces bordering Africa and its prestige had risen to -88.

    So it seems that the AI can recover from the first hits and blows of the invading armies and rebels. But it is not the same as a player can do the same. I will try a game as Roma later.
    Last edited by Micro; 05-01-2012 at 03:48.

  20. #240
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    I used version 0.7 to play as a small Asian country observing what was going on in Europe. The game started in 399 and I played on the fastest speed until 450.

    In the beginning everything was normal. A lot of countries in war with Roma. The Franks had some land in the north and Visigoths had some land to the east. Until around 420 Roma declined loosing land in France, Britain and Spain to either rebels og usurpers.

    Roma managed to hold the remaining lands and got +3 stability, but still -100 prestige. And the provinces had less revolt chances and revolts. The new surrounding countries began to go to wars with each others and Roma had a chance to recover and began slowly to take back it's provinces. Around 430 Roma reconquered Spain. By 450 Roma had recovered provinces in Balkan and France and had also managed to reconquer provinces in Africa and ERE provinces bordering Africa and its prestige had risen to -88.

    So it seems that the AI can recover from the first hits and blows of the invading armies and rebels. But it is not the same as a player can do the same. I will try a game as Roma later.
    To me, WRE seems slightly overpowered based on what I read above. Would you agree?

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