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Thread: (MOD) 399 a.d.

  1. #201
    Field Marshal AKronblad's Avatar
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    On the same topic: could actually name WRE "Roma" and ERE "Constaninopolis" after the two cities they are most commonly linked to (although Mediolanum at 399AD was formal capital of WRE...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatpl View Post
    ok, from having just read the thread, and not actually downloaded the mod to test myself, i wish to make a comment on the names.

    considering you refer to the East Roman Empire, then why not just name it Byzantine Empire like everyone else does when they need to differentiate? And if you dont like the name Byzantine (as quite a few picky people do), then just name them both Rome (or "Roman Empire") and keep the nation colors and flags radically different. Keep the West Red and East Purple. You can name multiple nations the same name, i think you just need to keep the 3 letter designator different.
    I would go for Byzantium or Romania for ERE and just Rome or Western Rome for WRE.

    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    On the same topic: could actually name WRE "Roma" and ERE "Constaninopolis" after the two cities they are most commonly linked to (although Mediolanum at 399AD was formal capital of WRE...).
    Mediolanum was one of multiple cities where emperors held court. Cologne or Trier (I forget which) was also a court city of the later Western Roman Emperors, and Honorius was very fond of Ravenna.

    I'd go for Roma, since it'd be weird to see that entity without "Rome" or "Roman" somewhere in the name, but Constantinopolis is a bit of a mouthful for EU3 standards.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofaloaf View Post
    ... but Constantinopolis is a bit of a mouthful for EU3 standards.
    Why would that be the case, Ofaloaf?

  5. #205
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    Just played as WRE.

    Found some errors:
    * When using the decisions to release Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia I ended up to press buttons in A LOT of dialogs saying that a province has been taken over. I think this should be changed so that all provinces are released at once and only one dialog pops up. Or the events should apear over a longer time, so that they do not clutter up my game.
    * Somehow I ended up in wars with Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia even if they did not exist and they did not have any military units. Only Gaul, Britannia and Hispania existed.
    * In the begnning of the game I could hold back my emenies, but I ended up with a lot of revolts... after releasing Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia I ended up with so many wars and a lot of war exhuasting, so I decided to quit the game. In short, it was unplayable after releasing the nations.

  6. #206
    Field Marshal AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    Just played as WRE.

    Found some errors:
    * When using the decisions to release Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia I ended up to press buttons in A LOT of dialogs saying that a province has been taken over. I think this should be changed so that all provinces are released at once and only one dialog pops up. Or the events should apear over a longer time, so that they do not clutter up my game.
    That is deliberate (ok, not clutter up your game), as I wanted it the way of each province released giving a light infantry in your capital (Mediolanum initially). I couldn't find a way to do this without individual dialogues. Do you know how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    * Somehow I ended up in wars with Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia even if they did not exist and they did not have any military units. Only Gaul, Britannia and Hispania existed.
    This is strange (have never come across myself). Are you sure that you were in wars with these Roman countries and they did not exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    * In the begnning of the game I could hold back my emenies, but I ended up with a lot of revolts... after releasing Roman Gaul, Roman Hispania and Roman Britannia I ended up with so many wars and a lot of war exhuasting, so I decided to quit the game. In short, it was unplayable after releasing the nations.
    Yes, releasing these countries would not result in major benefits. It's basically a drastic and last-resort measure to obtain units quickly, but downside is loss of provinces and hence tax and manpower and forcelimit.

    Thanks for trying it out! Could you recheck that it really was non-existing Roman countries being at war with?

  7. #207
    Field Marshal AKronblad's Avatar
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    v0.6 released, download link available in first post of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    That is deliberate (ok, not clutter up your game), as I wanted it the way of each province released giving a light infantry in your capital (Mediolanum initially). I couldn't find a way to do this without individual dialogues. Do you know how?

    This is strange (have never come across myself). Are you sure that you were in wars with these Roman countries and they did not exist?
    Yes, releasing these countries would not result in major benefits. It's basically a drastic and last-resort measure to obtain units quickly, but downside is loss of provinces and hence tax and manpower and forcelimit.

    Thanks for trying it out! Could you recheck that it really was non-existing Roman countries being at war with?
    Yes, I was in war with these nations, the shields was visible to the right like in all other wars.

    Regarding releasing nations, I guess it should be posible to write an event that converts more than one province, maybe as a part of the deciscion.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    1. Yes, I was in war with these nations, the shields was visible to the right like in all other wars.

    2. Regarding releasing nations, I guess it should be posible to write an event that converts more than one province, maybe as a part of the deciscion.
    1. Strange, thought it was impossible to be at war with non-existing countries. please let me know if the problem persists.
    2. Yes, it is fully possible, but not (AFAIK) if 1 unit per released province to be created. I will have another look at this to find another solution.

    Many thanks for feedback, Micro!

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    1. Strange, thought it was impossible to be at war with non-existing countries. please let me know if the problem persists.
    2. Yes, it is fully possible, but not (AFAIK) if 1 unit per released province to be created. I will have another look at this to find another solution.

    Many thanks for feedback, Micro!
    Played another game with v0.6 as Roma today for 2,5 years and avoided to release the roman nations. A lot of countries declared war in the beginning but I could fight them off and only lost the lands that the Roma Usurper events converted, and actually I had two of those provinces when I had peace for the first time. But I agreed to a lot of peace deals just to narrow down my wars so I lost some money on that account and had to create a lot of military units so I had to lent a lot of money... I think its a little too diffecult.

    It stroke me that the Roma Usurper events converts some provinces into another country like Gual. What is the difference between this Gaul and the Roman Gual that you can release by deciscion?

    I think the Roma Usurper event happens too often. I had it two times in two years... Roma would be nothing but Italy after 4-5 years from game start. Does WRE not decline too quickly?

    I guess the problem is to know what number of provinces the released nation has since some provinces might have been conquered and Roma gets this number of military units. But does the engine not have a variable that holds the number of provinces of a country? I have not done any event programming so I would not know it. At least I have seen events that does different things depending on the number of provinces of a country. You could use a fixed number of military units for a start just to get rid of all those dialogs.
    Last edited by Micro; 30-12-2011 at 22:21.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    Played another game with v0.6 as Roma today for 2,5 years and avoided to release the roman nations. A lot of countries declared war in the beginning but I could fight them off and only lost the lands that the Roma Usurper events converted, and actually I had two of those provinces when I had peace for the first time. But I agreed to a lot of peace deals just to narrow down my wars so I lost some money on that account and had to create a lot of military units so I had to lent a lot of money... I think its a little too diffecult.
    Let's see how this can be further balanced. But it should in fact be difficult, although not impossible. And realistic is WRE lasts until 450-500AD on average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    It stroke me that the Roma Usurper events converts some provinces into another country like Gual. What is the difference between this Gaul and the Roman Gual that you can release by deciscion?
    Gallia and Gaul (as they are now called) differ in the following way: Gallia is a (Gallo-)Roman culture usurper with Imperial government starting at war with WRE when created, whereas Gaul is an independent Gallic culture being a monarchy with no Roman attachment other than being Western technology. Same goes for Hispania and Iberia, and for Britannia and Prydein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    I think the Roma Usurper event happens too often. I had it two times in two years... Roma would be nothing but Italy after 4-5 years from game start. Does WRE not decline too quickly?
    Again, let's finetune the balance. Each of these usurpers have a MttH of 240 months (=20 years) but since there are 9 possible usurpers (some mutually exclusive, like Gallia being formed in only one of Northern Gallia and Southern Gallia, same goes for Hispania (Western / Eastern) and Africa (Africa / Mauretania) ), it will at least initially be an expected time until the first usurper showing up of around 2-3 years. Thereafter, this expected time period will gradually increase somewhat. But the 240 months MttH is not set in stone: it could be increased or decreased to get a better balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    I guess the problem is to know what number of provinces the released nation has since some provinces might have been conquered and Roma gets this number of military units. But does the engine not have a variable that holds the number of provinces of a country? I have not done any event programming so I would not know it. At least I have seen events that does different things depending on the number of provinces of a country. You could use a fixed number of military units for a start just to get rid of all those dialogs.
    I did exactly that now, and may develop troop numbers linked to number of seceded provinces later on. Because I like the delicate balance between releasing early and getting many troops but forfeiting tax incomes etc from provinces, and releasing late and risking getting no additional troops. (Please keep in mind that WRE needs to be at peace, which is not very often...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    Let's see how this can be further balanced. But it should in fact be difficult, although not impossible. And realistic is WRE lasts until 450-500AD on average.

    Gallia and Gaul (as they are now called) differ in the following way: Gallia is a (Gallo-)Roman culture usurper with Imperial government starting at war with WRE when created, whereas Gaul is an independent Gallic culture being a monarchy with no Roman attachment other than being Western technology. Same goes for Hispania and Iberia, and for Britannia and Prydein.

    Again, let's finetune the balance. Each of these usurpers have a MttH of 240 months (=20 years) but since there are 9 possible usurpers (some mutually exclusive, like Gallia being formed in only one of Northern Gallia and Southern Gallia, same goes for Hispania (Western / Eastern) and Africa (Africa / Mauretania) ), it will at least initially be an expected time until the first usurper showing up of around 2-3 years. Thereafter, this expected time period will gradually increase somewhat. But the 240 months MttH is not set in stone: it could be increased or decreased to get a better balancing.
    In my last game a Gaul usurper were created in northern part, and later a Gaul usurper were created in southern part creating one big Gual and lowering my war score from 80% to 32%. Is that suppose to happen? If the southern Gaul were not created I would have conquered it, but I got two provinces when making make peace. My WE and revolt risks became too large and I wanted to have peace to regain strength and manage the revolts.

    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    I did exactly that now, and may develop troop numbers linked to number of seceded provinces later on. Because I like the delicate balance between releasing early and getting many troops but forfeiting tax incomes etc from provinces, and releasing late and risking getting no additional troops. (Please keep in mind that WRE needs to be at peace, which is not very often...)
    I like this idea.
    However, can you add a description when hovering over the decision command? Nothing is shown.

    Also, is this new formed nation supposed to be in war with Rome when created? The usurpers are also in war with Rome when they are created.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    In my last game a Gaul usurper were created in northern part, and later a Gaul usurper were created in southern part creating one big Gual and lowering my war score from 80% to 32%. Is that suppose to happen? If the southern Gaul were not created I would have conquered it, but I got two provinces when making make peace. My WE and revolt ...
    could happen, as all events have random components per se. But to understand better:
    1 what were the exact names of these two countries?
    2 did you own and control the provinces that the second country (the southern) took over when it was created, or who did?

    3 did the two countries merge immediately, or after how many months, and under which country name (ie which country remained)?
    Last edited by AKronblad; 31-12-2011 at 12:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    1 what were the exact names of these two countries?
    2 did you own and control the provinces that the second country (the southern) was created, or who did?
    3 did the two countries merge immediately, or after how many months, and under which country name (ie which country remained)?
    1. The name of both of the usurpers was Gallia.
    2. Yes, I owned and controlled all provinces where both Gallia were created.
    3. No, the northern Gallia was created first, 6-12 months later the southern one was created.

    I continued my Roma game until 426. Until 422 my Roma continued to loose provinces to revolters and usurpers.
    The following usurpers were created: Hispania, Pannonia, Africa, Rhenia, Britannia (but is now owned by Jutes).
    The following nations arose from revolters: Illyricum, Prydein, Iberia.
    And a lot of provinces was lost to already existing nations and usurpers through revolters.

    Don't you think usurpers happens a little too often?

    However, Rhenia did not have any provinces, so it resulted in a war that I won with 100% but could not end, since I could not send diplomats. But it was ended autmatically by my advisers... At that time I had lost all provinces in Gaul and Germania, so I suspect the usurper events do not check if any provinces are eligble to be used by usurpers.

    From 402 to 422 I had bankrupcy, which means my military units only had a morale of 0.10, so I could not do anything but reconquer provinces and try to stay away from battles.

    However, when bankrupcy ended I got stabilty 3 and all revolters disapeared. But at this time I only have provinces in Italy and I have inflation of 10. I guess, if I manage to stay away from bankrupcy, the result would have been the same, loosing land to revolters and usurpers, since I could not have have enough armies to fight back.
    Last edited by Micro; 31-12-2011 at 13:02.

  15. #215
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    1. very strange because there is just one country named GALLIA (tag WRG).
    3. did they merge as soon as the second country appeared, or how long after?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    1. very strange because there is just one country named GALLIA (tag WRG).
    3. did they merge as soon as the second country appeared, or how long after?
    3. Yes, they merged as soon as the second nation was created. On after though, provinces for the southern Gallia might have been captured by rebels... so Roma was not controlling them.

    At least, you must check if Roma owns one or more of the provinces that will go to the usurper. Else a ghost usurper will be created with zero provinces and it will still go to war with Roma.
    Last edited by Micro; 31-12-2011 at 15:47.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    3. Yes, they merged as soon as the second nation was created. On after though, provinces for the southern Gallia might have been captured by rebels... so Roma was not controlling them.

    At least, you must check if Roma owns one or more of the provinces that will go to the usurper. Else a ghost usurper will be created with zero provinces and it will still go to war with Roma.
    3 explains it: normal rebels. Puh!

    yes, have remedied ghost usurpers for next release.
    Last edited by AKronblad; 31-12-2011 at 16:32.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    3 explains it: normal rebels. Puh!

    yes, have remedied ghost usurpers for next release.
    Thanks and happy new year!

    You might be right, but I cant remember if all those provinces were captured by rebels. And I have not seen that so many provinces have defected to another nation at one time.

    I will double the MttH for usurpers to 480 months and try some games to see how that will balance the game. Then Roma might be able to fight off the rebels, capture the usupers again and fight other countries at the same time.

    One thing I noticed in the event file, you have set MttH to 120 months for Rhenia usurper... and then you change that by 1.2 every time another usurper exist. Why do you do that? Should it not also have constant MttH at 240 months like the others?
    Last edited by Micro; 01-01-2012 at 18:06.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    Happy new year!

    You might be right, but I cant remember if all those provinces were captured by rebels. And I have not seen that so many provinces have defected to another nation at one time.
    Hopefully I am right because it is really strange to have two countries named the same, when there is only one country tag with this name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    I will double the MttH for usurpers to 480 months and try some games to see how that will balance the game. Then Roma might be able to fight off the rebels, capture the usupers again and fight other countries at the same time. .
    I have uploaded a new version 0.6.1 (please see first post) with this and hopefully correcting the other errors so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Micro View Post
    One thing I noticed in the event file, you have set MttH to 120 months for Rhenia usurper... and then you change that by 1.2 every time another usurper exist. Why do you do that? Should it not also have constant MttH at 240 months like the others?
    Pure mistake. I am not yet 100% at modding and make a lot of changes, and sometimes forget to change back or making consistent changes..!
    Last edited by AKronblad; 02-01-2012 at 07:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    I have uploaded a new version 0.6.1 (please see first post) with this and hopefully correcting the other errors so far.
    Thanks.
    I have played as Roma between 399 and 411.

    First some minor notes:
    * The nations you can choose from in the bookmark should be changed, maybe Roma, Constantinoblis, Franks and one or two other nations.
    * Many ships are not visible. Only if they carry military units they are visible with only the unit avatar and flag visible. I noticed the Visigoths, Jutes and the Picts have this error. Maybe other countries. My own were visible. I dont know if missing graphical_culture might be the reason. However, land units are visible.

    The game:
    In this game a lot of nations declared war against me right from the start like normal. And like in the other games it was very difficult to deal with all those enemies. To quickly end some of the wars I had to accept to give away a lot of provinces to Franks and Visigoths. The Burghundians and Alamanns I could hold off with the military I could afford with the remaining provinces. Most other wars I could end accpeting peace by paying some or little money.

    But now I had a lot of revolts going on and a Africa usurper was created, but I could end the war relatively quickly with a peace offering. In 407 I had peace for the first time... With the remaining provinces I could not have enough military to deal with the revolts so about 409 my country broke down and Gallia, Rhenia, Hispania, Britannia, Pannonia was created from the rebels and I got stability 3 again... When the country broke down I also got a lot of military but that exeeded the force limit, so I had to delete most of them.

    Conclusion:
    IMHO the correct balance is not in place at the moment. You can try to train a lot military to defend youself in the wars, but the force limit is too low to do that. You can train enough to just reach the force limit, but you will not have enough military power to defend. You could concentrate on defending certain provinces, and then accept peace with the nations you have no chance winning against. But the longer the wars the more rebels you will have. And which way you ever take the result will be the same. You will loose your provinces and end up with a smaller Roma and a lot rebels, and Roma will eventuelly break down. If you can hold your enemies and the rebels off the usurpers will take your provinces. When the peace is over, you enemies will declare war again... wars never end.

    I think the country modifer westromedecline is too drastic. -75% land force limit, -75% tax income, -75% manpower, -50% naval force limit... its just too much together with the wars that are started and the usurpers and the results of that meaning high WE and rebels. No matter what happens, after maximum 10 years Roma will be reduced to no more than one or two handfull of provinces.

    Could I have done anything that could have produced a better outcome?

    In all my games ERE holds almost the same provinces as when the games started even if its modifers are -25%. We could reduce the modifers for WRE to -50% or -40%?
    Last edited by Micro; 02-01-2012 at 22:34.

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