+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: Steam

  1. #1

    Steam

    Why has paradox forced the use of steam?

    It seems to me that paradox use to object to steam and the monopoly it creates on gaming. Gamersgate was created as an alternative. The thing i liked best about paradox games was no mandatory steam. They used steam, but just as an option for the steam fans. Now they are forcing people to use steam for their games? Disappointing...

  2. #2
    It was a choice made by Kerberos, the game's developer, in order to streamline and speed up game patching using a single source instead of preparing patches for multiple download sites and putting up with the possible incompatibilities and delays as a result.

  3. #3
    Major Ordo Impavidus's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesHearts of Iron IIIMagicka
    Pirates of Black CoveEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuSword of the Stars
    Sword of the Stars IIRome: Vae VictisPride of NationsRise of Prussia500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Enslaved We Trust; Everyone, Everywhere, As One.
    Posts
    751
    Using Steam, at the end, maximizes profits. It's nothing personal.

    GG was a great alternative, but poor business decisions caused it to be less competitive. "Gamersgate", the status/effect/idea that this name alone conveys was perfect.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Goillananoge View Post
    Why has paradox forced the use of steam?

    It seems to me that paradox use to object to steam and the monopoly it creates on gaming. Gamersgate was created as an alternative. The thing i liked best about paradox games was no mandatory steam. They used steam, but just as an option for the steam fans. Now they are forcing people to use steam for their games? Disappointing...
    VERY disappointing, yes, and kind of scary. As you say, Paradox used to be one of the few major publishers that wasn't content to hand the entire platform over to Valve.

  5. #5
    Paul Bäumer's gravedigger Becephalus's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDiplomacyEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsRome Gold
    Semper FiSengokuSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2Rome: Vae Victis

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Posts
    2,161
    While steam has its faults it is dominating in this sphere because it has by far the best product and has been a huge win for gamers and the gaming industry.

    Lay off it. The only people who hate steam are children who don't know anything about business, working or the real world and are still stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.
    Its always darkest right before it is completely black -Chairman Mao

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares often end up plowing for those who kept their swords -someone wise

    "If you take a starving dog off the streets and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man." -Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Becephalus View Post
    While steam has its faults it is dominating in this sphere because it has by far the best product and has been a huge win for gamers and the gaming industry.

    Lay off it. The only people who hate steam are children who don't know anything about business, working or the real world and are still stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.
    not to mention zealot fan boy troll support, it indeed has it all!

    ...of course anyone who knew anything about business would know the economic system works best when the customer is completely informed, and a free choice over a variety of options. Steam limits and controls both and has created an Oligopoly in the computer gaming industry.

    This creates a large barrier to entry, preventing new or small distributes from competing. It also ensures that steam has final say in many aspects of how gaming companies produce and operate (following their protocols before the game can be released on their system). Both of these restrict potential in the market. And heaven forbid they ever develop a grudge against a company, or even a bug or virus that takes them down for even a few days.

    Steam also controls how you play, you must use their client, must use their patches, must be submitted to their advertising and information flow. Some of us prefer to have control over our own systems, and information flow, you apparently do not.
    Last edited by Goillananoge; 28-10-2011 at 22:01.

  7. #7
    Major hoikof's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourSemper Fi
    Sword of the StarsSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Becephalus View Post
    While steam has its faults it is dominating in this sphere because it has by far the best product and has been a huge win for gamers and the gaming industry.

    Lay off it. The only people who hate steam are children who don't know anything about business, working or the real world and are still stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.
    Get over yerself. I work in It in the real world and if I made a balls of a release to prod like this I'd be scratching my arse on the dole, indefinitely. (i.e. not working - ever). Griping about this scenario is normal and rational and very real world.

    You're comment rubs me up the wrong way fella.

    I will however, remain civil.
    Last edited by hoikof; 28-10-2011 at 21:42. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Becephalus View Post
    While steam has its faults it is dominating in this sphere because it has by far the best product and has been a huge win for gamers and the gaming industry.

    Lay off it. The only people who hate steam are children who don't know anything about business, working or the real world and are still stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.
    Strange, I dislike Steam (their DRM thingy only, actually) and I don't remember being a child who don't knows anything about business, working or the real world and still being stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.

    But you are so zealous that I must be wrong.

    Edit: I prefer GamersGate because they are very careful with the DRM content. It's very well marked. Also, they don't have a client "per se". If you download a non-DRM game, you just download it, and it's "yours" to keep. I appreciate that so much, I'm staying with GG. Can Steam offer that? I guess not.

  9. #9
    I'm also very disappointed that this game uses steamworks. I can't stand the service and will usually only purchase games that I really want (and get good reviews) if they require steam.

    I didn't pay any attention to DRM when purchasing the game from gamersgate since it is published by paradox and they have been very supportive of DRM free (plus the fact that they are the ones that started gamersgate).

    I was very angry when I saw the steam icon popup when installing the game. I know it is my fault for not researching enough before purchasing but I feel scammed. Probably would not have purchased the game if I knew that it required steam.

    If other Paradox games start requiring steam I'm going to stop purchasing a lot of games they put out.
    Last edited by darkpatriot; 28-10-2011 at 21:46. Reason: cleaned up a bit

  10. #10
    Major hoikof's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourSemper Fi
    Sword of the StarsSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpatriot View Post
    I'm also very disappointed that this game uses steamworks. I can't stand the service and will usually only purchase games that I wish to play very much if they require steam.

    I didn't pay any attention to DRM when purchasing the game from gamersgate since it is published by paradox and they have been very supportive of no DRM (plus the fact that they are the ones that started gamersgate).

    I was very angry when I saw the steam icon popup when installing the game. I know it is my fault for not researching enough before purchasing but I feel scammed. Probably would not have purchased the game if I knew that it required steam.

    If other Paradox games start requiring steam I'm going to stop purchasing a lot of games they put out.
    +1

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Becephalus View Post
    While steam has its faults it is dominating in this sphere because it has by far the best product and has been a huge win for gamers and the gaming industry.

    Lay off it. The only people who hate steam are children who don't know anything about business, working or the real world and are still stuck in teenage/college fantasy-land.
    I don't call you names because you like steam, maybe you should follow the forum rules and not be a troll??

    Edit: other thread in general discussion http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...unt-quot/page3

    I dislike steam but don't bash it(much) or its users.
    Last edited by Lor Dric; 28-10-2011 at 22:01.
    Forum rules:http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...aq_forum_rules
    Heraldic Armies: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...eraldic-armies
    Horses Project:http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...Horses-project

    Founder: Paradox Modders International, The Iconians Club 20, 150+ friends association,The Chaapa'ai, 500k Club Social Groups

  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant Mordachai's Avatar
    Deus VultHearts of Iron IIISword of the StarsSword of the Stars IIMount & Blade: Warband

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpatriot View Post
    i'm also very disappointed that this game uses steamworks.
    sots ][ does not (not) i repeat, not, use steamworks

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpatriot View Post
    I'm also very disappointed that this game uses steamworks. I can't stand the service and will usually only purchase games that I really want (and get good reviews) if they require steam.

    I didn't pay any attention to DRM when purchasing the game from gamersgate since it is published by paradox and they have been very supportive of DRM free (plus the fact that they are the ones that started gamersgate).

    I was very angry when I saw the steam icon popup when installing the game. I know it is my fault for not researching enough before purchasing but I feel scammed. Probably would not have purchased the game if I knew that it required steam.

    If other Paradox games start requiring steam I'm going to stop purchasing a lot of games they put out.
    Man, I'm in exactly the same situation as you, and my feelings are exactly the same.

    To their defense, going with Steam was Kerberos' decision, not Paradox's, and the game is not exactly Steamworks: it's "only" being distributed thru Steam (but that still means that each installation requires Steam activation, and patches will only be distributed thru Steam).

  14. #14
    If it doesn't use steamworks I'm even more perplexed as to why they require steam. So they are simply using steam as DRM... And for patching so that everything runs smoothly and everyone has the right version from one easy to use location. Except that they have the wrong version uploaded to steam. So glad that that is going well.

  15. #15
    Check the thread link I listed above Johan explains their side.
    Forum rules:http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...aq_forum_rules
    Heraldic Armies: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...eraldic-armies
    Horses Project:http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...Horses-project

    Founder: Paradox Modders International, The Iconians Club 20, 150+ friends association,The Chaapa'ai, 500k Club Social Groups

  16. #16
    Major Ordo Impavidus's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesHearts of Iron IIIMagicka
    Pirates of Black CoveEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuSword of the Stars
    Sword of the Stars IIRome: Vae VictisPride of NationsRise of Prussia500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Enslaved We Trust; Everyone, Everywhere, As One.
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpatriot View Post
    If it doesn't use steamworks I'm even more perplexed as to why they require steam. So they are simply using steam as DRM... And for patching so that everything runs smoothly and everyone has the right version from one easy to use location. Except that they have the wrong version uploaded to steam. So glad that that is going well.
    Steam offers the infrastructure to delivering DLC content, establishing a unified version for all and for hosting MP.

    The "bottom line", as in many things, becomes the determining factor...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordo Impavidus View Post
    Steam offers the infrastructure to delivering DLC content, establishing a unified version for all and for hosting MP.

    The "bottom line", as in many things, becomes the determining factor...
    I thought the hosting MP code was steamworks? It doesn't matter anyway. Whether or not the game incorporates steamworks or just requires steam I am extremely disappointed in this turn of events and hope that their future games do not.
    Last edited by darkpatriot; 28-10-2011 at 22:32. Reason: spelling

  18. #18
    Sergeant Daniel Johnson's Avatar
    Sword of the Stars IISupreme Ruler: Cold War

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sheffield, England, United Kingdom, 108299645860446, Sheffield
    Posts
    59
    the reason kerb/paradox decided to go with steam was so they could release a single unified version of the game on a single portal....thus cutting down time on developing different versions for 20-30 different portals.
    Live for nothing or Die for something

  19. #19
    Major Ordo Impavidus's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesHearts of Iron IIIMagicka
    Pirates of Black CoveEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengokuSword of the Stars
    Sword of the Stars IIRome: Vae VictisPride of NationsRise of Prussia500k club
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Enslaved We Trust; Everyone, Everywhere, As One.
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpatriot View Post
    I thought the hosting MP code was steamworks? It doesn't matter anyway. Weather or not the game incorporates steamworks or just requires steam I am extremely disappointed in this turn of events and hope that there future games do not.
    Not totally.

    Steamworks is a premium service that Valve offers to devs/publishers. So that does indeed cost more but I'm certain that the service then is more...organized. Just a thought of mine.

  20. #20
    Paul Bäumer's gravedigger Becephalus's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDiplomacyEuropa Universalis 3For the MotherlandHearts of Iron III
    Heir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsRome Gold
    Semper FiSengokuSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2Rome: Vae Victis

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Goillananoge View Post
    not to mention zealot fan boy troll support, it indeed has it all!

    This creates a large barrier to entry, preventing new or small distributes from competing. It also ensures that steam has final say in many aspects of how gaming companies produce and operate (following their protocols before the game can be released on their system). Both of these restrict potential in the market. And heaven forbid they ever develop a grudge against a company, or even a bug or virus that takes them down for even a few days.

    Steam also controls how you play, you must use their client, must use their patches, must be submitted to their advertising and information flow. Some of us prefer to have control over our own systems, and information flow, you apparently do not.
    Steam has been a pretty good platform for independent gaming. Braid/Limbo/Terraria/RotT/et cetera. I don't think independent developers dislike it at all. It does not "have final say in many aspects of how gaming companies produce and operate" look at matrix games they are doing just fine without steam. The fact is Steam is hugely popular with developers and gamers because it is a hugely valuable service. Almost all of the hatred of it developed in the era when most of the people complaining were complaining because it made it hard to pirate games. Now they couldn't play with their friends on pirated games. I have no times for thieves.

    "Steam also controls how you play, you must use their client, must use their patches, must be submitted to their advertising and information flow. Some of us prefer to have control over our own systems, and information flow, you apparently do not."

    Actually you DON'T need to use the client to play in offline mode. It is true you must generally be subject to their advertising, but that is the whole point, it is keeping costs down by introducing other streams of revenue. Would you rather games cost $30 more, or are perhaps unreleased altogether because distribution costs are high and distributors are unable to fund their operation with advertising instead of markup? I NEVER see anyone complaining about steam who looks like they understand the first thing about business or actually developing publishing and distributing computer games. I really don't. Just a bunch of kids who like to complain.

    Most of the other complaints are just teenagers whining about how the world isn't perfect and the whole gaming industry isn't custom designed to meet their needs. Know what? Neither is any other industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoikof View Post
    Get over yerself. I work in It in the real world and if I made a balls of a release to prod like this I'd be scratching my arse on the dole, indefinitely. (i.e. not working - ever). Griping about this scenario is normal and rational and very real world.
    None of that has anything to do with steam. Paradox and Kerberos released the product. Kerberos (who I really like) is the one still doing major work on their game mere days before release. The fault lies with them.
    Last edited by Becephalus; 28-10-2011 at 22:42.
    Its always darkest right before it is completely black -Chairman Mao

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares often end up plowing for those who kept their swords -someone wise

    "If you take a starving dog off the streets and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man." -Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts