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Thread: destroying/abandoning holdings

  1. #1
    First Lieutenant Xain's Avatar
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    destroying/abandoning holdings

    I was wandering if it will be possible to destroy or abandon a holding (city, church or castle).

    I have some example when this could be justified :

    - as an event choice, following a major revolt ("burn the city to ashes!") or maybe a victory in a fierce war.
    - if we reached the demesne limit, and we don't want or can't make new vassals or empower those we already have.
    - if we want to change the type of settlement

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
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    It's been confirmed that Baronies can be destroyed by military action. Which means your "burn the city to ashes" button (or an equivalent) may be present.

    I doubt there will be a way for an over-desmene-limit person to destroy them. As Baron of wherever you have certain obligations to your subjects, which means you don't get to burn down their house and build a Monastery just because it would be convenient for you.

    Nick

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    Field Marshal A_Dane's Avatar
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    Are you able to actually change the settlement type? Might be remembering it wrong, but didn't think that was possible?
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    Field Marshal Wezqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_Dane View Post
    Are you able to actually change the settlement type? Might be remembering it wrong, but didn't think that was possible?
    Well I don't think you can change them but if they get razed totally you might be able to build another settlement on the old one that is not necessarily the same one as original one that got razed.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wezqu View Post
    Well I don't think you can change them but if they get razed totally you might be able to build another settlement on the old one that is not necessarily the same one as original one that got razed.

    thanks for the guess

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wezqu View Post
    Well I don't think you can change them but if they get razed totally you might be able to build another settlement on the old one that is not necessarily the same one as original one that got razed.
    That'd be a nice feature, and I'd guess that would be the case too. Maybe they could make it cheaper/easier to rebuild the settlement that had been there than building a new kind. In theory razing the settlement wouldn't destroy and kill 100% of the people and assets, so it would make sense to make it easier to return to the previous status quo.

  7. #7
    Reichsmarschall Paradox Dev Team Darkrenown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick B II View Post
    It's been confirmed that Baronies can be destroyed by military action.
    No, it has not.
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    Your Friendly Dictator Grubnessul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
    No, it has not.
    Well... can they?
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    Reichsmarschall Paradox Dev Team Darkrenown's Avatar
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    No.
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    First Lieutenant Xain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
    No.

  11. #11
    Colonel zonkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
    No.
    How unfortunate.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zonkie View Post
    How unfortunate.
    Pretty historically accurate, though, I'd think. Hardly anything that's represented by a holding in-game would have been completely destroyed by military action, except for possibly a pagan religious holding.

  13. #13
    Major Subcomandante's Avatar
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    the number of settlements can change; players can build new ones and potentially existing ones can be razed (except for the county capital).

    The type cannot change however.

    dd2 comments

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajerio View Post
    Pretty historically accurate, though, I'd think. Hardly anything that's represented by a holding in-game would have been completely destroyed by military action, except for possibly a pagan religious holding.
    More to do with gameplay balance and the difficulties of having a plausible AI imo. As for historical plausibility - cities can be burned, bishoprics can be plundered and looted, castles can in some cases be broken down to use for building materials or just demolished to demilitarise and centralise a formerly autonomous region. These would be rare occurrences and damaged buildings could be rebuilt or the city relocated, if there was a demand to do so, but sometimes areas were left to decay.

    The problem is, in my view, that a "plausible randomness" would be very hard to determine. Could London have been completely abandoned for another English city? Probably not unless under improbably extreme conditions. With the much less populated outer regions of the map, it's a very different story. And then again, should it only happen by military force, by random events with a certain MTTH (50, 100, 150 years?), or by player action in the interface having met certain conditions? All of those leave a lot to be desired and would end up making the natural story and flow of the game to be arbitrarily broken, especially if the AI is affected. There is also the problem that characters having only one barony-level title could suddenly have no title at all, from one day to the next.

    As you hint at, holdings would represent more than a single entity in one county as there is a limit of 6 plus the capital. Still, disasters (which ingame would result in the removal of a holding) affecting this scale of land was not unknown of. To mention: War, revolts, famine and climate change, diseases, and emigration (where possible) could radically change the demographic structure of a region.

  15. #15
    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subcomandante View Post
    dd2 comments
    Which is a bit difficult to reconcile with the flat-out "No" of 9.

    The razed comment is post 12 on this thread:
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...nd-Settlements

    Nick

  16. #16
    Well he did say "potentially," which could either mean you could potentially do it or razing could potentially be implemented. It appears it was the latter, and a decision was made over the year since that diary was posted.

  17. #17
    Reichsmarschall Paradox Dev Team Darkrenown's Avatar
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajerio View Post
    Pretty historically accurate, though, I'd think. Hardly anything that's represented by a holding in-game would have been completely destroyed by military action, except for possibly a pagan religious holding.
    Well about 10 years earlier than game start Hedeby was burned to the ground and never rebuilt. It was a major city in Denmark.

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