For the developers: Some errors which may have not cought your attention

S3W · Oct 22, 2011

Crusader Kings 2 will be my first paradox game (a friend of mine showed it to me), and i've been excited about it ever since. The game play, the in-depth strategy gameplay, the improved graphics (its pretty

) - lots of reasons to like this game.

However in the video previews posted on youtube i've seen some MAJOR errors which irritated me quite much so i've decided to make an account here and post them - since noone noticed them yet.

Personally, i live in Slovakia, so the errors i've noticed are in this area - the missing mountains/hills forming the natural borders of the Czech Republic and the provinces in Hungary (by that i mean Kingdom of Hungary)

The first errors:

Errors: Domazlice as a province - it shoud be called České Budejovice or Tábor.
Hradec (Králové) should be the province above it - the province Boleslav
Instead of Hradec Kralove - Jihlava would be a finer choise.
->these are correctable in gameplay as the games is allowed to change province names

The other error: The current terrain of the Czech Kingdom lacks the mountains forming the natural borders.

(sorry for the german version, that was the best one i could find)

Now the errors with Hungary:

Szekesfehérvár shouldn't be an independent province, rather a city in Fejer (historically it was always the capital of that province)
Pécs - it should be entirely on the other side of the Danube - it might be a good replacement for the Szekezfehervar province
In the location of Pécs should be the province of Bács and above it the province of Csanád.
The province of Pest is the worst - it should be right next to the river Danube - right side, not far east at the Tisza.

In the second image - The province of Temes should be where currently Bács is, and as a replacement of Temes - Hunyad would be a historically and Geographicly correct choise.

And the last error: The location of the Southern Carpaths compared to the province borders - the southern borders of the current Temes and Fehér provinces should be equal to the mountain range -> they should be on the northern side of it.

Thats all i've found lately. I hope this helps the developers make an even better game & that its still not too late.

S3W

PS.: If anyone has noted any other similar errors please let the developers know, so we could ALL enjoy this AWESOME game (when it comes out ...)

Orinsul · Oct 23, 2011

and if everyone posted a thread like this about where they live the game would never get finished for peoples suggestions for what they see as improvements. Im sure you mean well but these threads always end badly.

InboxMadness · Oct 23, 2011

Orinsul said:
and if everyone posted a thread like this about where they live the game would never get finished for peoples suggestions for what they see as improvements. Im sure you mean well but these threads always end badly.

They fixed some stuff in Poland already so I don't think it's too far fetched to think they'd fix other stuff too

unmerged(227356) · Oct 23, 2011

Orinsul said:
and if everyone posted a thread like this about where they live the game would never get finished for peoples suggestions for what they see as improvements. Im sure you mean well but these threads always end badly.

Most of these seem to be errors, rather than complicated additions. It's not someone from Swizerland asking for a full canton system, t.ex

Sir Garnet · Oct 23, 2011

It's worth distinguishing improvements from error corrections. One of the huge burdens of designing a wargame set on Earth is having things correspond to actual geography sufficiently to represent significant military effects on the level of the game. The role of the Carpathians is significant enough to matter to gameplay, but there are more important terrain features.

To the extent province boundaries and the positioning of cities are a matter of artwork without material impact, they are relatively minor correction. In some cases, it may be desirable to represent on a map not the actual terrain but what it was perceived to be at the time.

RhoDaZZ · Oct 23, 2011

Oisrisso said:
Most of these seem to be errors, rather than complicated additions. It's not someone from Swizerland asking for a full canton system, t.ex

Excuse me asking, but why would anyone want that? It was introduced around the last possible starting date and what happens after you start in 1066 usually derails from history, making the conditions for an event 250-300 years in the future to happen impossible.

Sir Garnet said:
It's worth distinguishing improvements from error corrections. One of the huge burdens of designing a wargame set on Earth is having things correspond to actual geography sufficiently to represent significant military effects on the level of the game. The role of the Carpathians is significant enough to matter to gameplay, but there are more important terrain features.

To the extent province boundaries and the positioning of cities are a matter of artwork without material impact, they are relatively minor correction. In some cases, it may be desirable to represent on a map not the actual terrain but what it was perceived to be at the time.

Well, given the satellite-like topographic terrain map in the game now, I don't see any indication the devs would make anything "what it was perceived to be at the time".

unmerged(227356) · Oct 23, 2011

RhoDaZZ said:
Excuse me asking, but why would anyone want that? It was introduced around the last possible starting date and what happens after you start in 1066 usually derails from history, making the conditions for an event 250-300 years in the future to happen impossible.

Just an example of something overly elaborate and provincial as a request, rather than error corrections

S3W · Oct 23, 2011

Orinsul said:
and if everyone posted a thread like this about where they live the game would never get finished for peoples suggestions for what they see as improvements. Im sure you mean well but these threads always end badly.

And if the developers wouldn't care about the correctness of the game, noone would care to play (or just 10% of those who wanted to once)
+ the reason of development diaries and forums is to get info from the users -> what they want to see in the game, amaze them with some previews and in the end gain more customers.

Maginor · Oct 23, 2011

Posting threads like this doesn't hurt. Flaming Paradox for mistakes does, but I don't see any of that here.

unmerged(319241) · Oct 23, 2011

I agree with the suggestions made by S3W.

But there is another big error that should be changed: The region that is now called Znojmo should be completely part of the duchy of Austria. And Austria itself should be placed more northwest than here and in CK1, so that it spreads north and south of the danube.

Znojmo is a czech town that never bordered the danube. The borders between moravia and what is today lower austria were largely the same a thousand years ago to what they are today.

S3W · Oct 23, 2011

dartvader said:
I agree with the suggestions made by S3W.

But there is another big error that should be changed: The region that is now called Znojmo should be completely part of the duchy of Austria. And Austria itself should be placed more northwest than here and in CK1, so that it spreads north and south of the danube.

Znojmo is a czech town that never bordered the danube. The borders between moravia and what is today lower austria were largely the same a thousand years ago to what they are today.

Just to complete your post

I printscreened this image from the Duke of Swabia video on youtube.
The dark gray part of the Duchy of Austria is the province called Znojmo.
So it belongs to the right duchy

...only its name is...well incorrect

yellowbiz · Oct 24, 2011

Eh, I'm not big on history and stuff like that, but I think it is somewhat pointless to bring up errors about cities and borders.
Unless you have solid proof, most likely in the form of a book written by a historian, or someone from that era, it's merely your opinion that city X was never a part of Y or that the borders or Z/W never changed.

The same goes for the provinces names, keep in mind that they should be in English and not in your native language, because then people will fight about the "correct" name to no end.
i.e. Apulia, Pulla, Puglia, Apulien, Pouilles. All refer to the same province/area. So make sure that what you're correcting is actually valid and not just a translation to your native language.

That is not to say that what the people here said is wrong or irrelevant, I can't judge on how correct they are, but just remember that you can't just "fix" stuff without proof

S3W · Oct 24, 2011

yellowbiz said:
That is not to say that what the people here said is wrong or irrelevant, I can't judge on how correct they are, but just remember that you can't just "fix" stuff without proof

The errors are quite big to be honest.
eg. How would you like to play a game, where the province of Jerusalem is located somewhere in the arabian desert? (just an alternative to the province locations in Hungary)
Or would you call a game historically and geographically correct if Barcelona would be on the northern side of the Pyrenees? (just an alternative to the southern Carpathians error)

Or how would you like if instead of Hebron you'd have Amman as a province name? (alternative to dartvader's error)

Not that i don't appreciate the developers work or something, but the beta version is in need of correction.
And just to clarify - I've made this post to HELP the developers work, NOT to CRITICIZE them.

S3W · Oct 24, 2011

And proof?

Check ANY book, ANY map where the presented area is mentioned.

or...
Go on try the google maps - or the region map of hungary - Szekesfehervar IS the capital of the Fejer province, it IS located far more north (by far i mean FAR) and i could continue, but i don't want to loose my temper :/

RhoDaZZ · Oct 24, 2011

S3W said:
Go on try the google maps - or the region map of hungary - Szekesfehervar IS the capital of the Fejer province, it IS located far more north (by far i mean FAR) and i could continue, but i don't want to loose my temper :/

But that is hardly a medieval source. Even though locations usually don't change (though some cities were relocated by decree or following a disaster), the fact that the city existed in 1066 might not be a given one. Whether your corrections follow this or not, I have no idea. If you want to confirm your statements though, using written or academic sources would be the way to go.

S3W · Oct 24, 2011

hmmm....

have you noticed the OR before it? -.-

Under the ANY source i mean ANY source. The fact is the towns, provinces don't move too often, and the current positions of the former medieval towns and castles remain.

But just to prove my point
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Hungary_11th_cent.png

(the image is too big, so i've just inserted a link to WIKIPEDIA)

You can see the position of Szekesfehervar on it, Pest is not there (in truth it wasn't a significant town in the medieval ages until the 14th-15th century)
Pecs is also present, as is Bacs, Csanad.
Gyulafehervar is the most important city in that time in Transylvania, its the capital of the province Feher (if you want to try and find proof - try Alsó Fehér )

And just for you - trying to find proof for this is irrevelant, as its a FACT - you WON'T find different maps, historical data in ANY academic source or map.
So for those who want proof - learn to use google...and...
for failed troll attempt (not you RhoDaZZ)

Slaxl · Oct 24, 2011

S3W said:
And proof?
Check ANY book, ANY map where the presented area is mentioned.

or...
Go on try the google maps - or the region map of hungary - Szekesfehervar IS the capital of the Fejer province, it IS located far more north (by far i mean FAR) and i could continue, but i don't want to loose my temper :/

It's not worth getting angry about. Since you said you only just joined the world of Paradox then you should know if there is one game company in the world that you can count on do their best to fix errors it is Paradox. Don't get angry, just be patient. And if all else fails know that they make their games easily moddable, so changing the province name for you could be as easy as opening up a text file and doing it. Redrawing borders is also a rather uncomplicated affair.

Also it's just not worth getting angry a slight inaccuracy in a game...

S3W · Oct 24, 2011

thanks for reassuring

If its like you say it is i'm gonna like paradox....much

Panjer · Oct 24, 2011

Constantinople seems to be on the wrong side.

Nick B II · Oct 24, 2011

Guys,

Paradox have acknowledged the map sucks. It's a carry-over from CK1, which had an abbreviated development schedule (translation: the original guys fucked up, so Johan had to pull a rabbit out of his hat in six months). They have a guy whose job is redoing the map. Apparently he's gotten to Poland, England, France, and some other places.

They have said that they welcome our help in fixing these map problems, and the map guy certainly seems to have included the advice Polish posters gave him. There's a thread on the Ethiopian region where he actually has a conversation with a poster about how to divvy up the provinces.

Posts like this are only problematic if they insist some province needs to be added. The number of provinces is fixed for performance reasons, and if everybody got their favorite just one more province province the game wouldn't run on a supercomputer. This one doesn't.

Nick

For the developers: Some errors which may have not cought your attention

Sergeant

Absent Minded

Banned

Sergeant

Field Marshal

Colonel

Sergeant

Sergeant

Lt. General

Sergeant

Sergeant

Captain

Sergeant

Sergeant

Colonel

Sergeant

Colonel

Sergeant

Captain

Field Marshal