As King of England, is it possible to determine the succession rules of my vassal the Duke of Lancaster?
Question about succesions
- Thread starter Swezeru
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I was under the impression that the king sets the succession laws for the entire country of England. He can set seperate succession laws for Wales if he holds the Welsh crown, but if he has vassals in Wales and somebody else holds the crown then those vassals are governed by the laws of the Welsh king.
from dev diary 3
"Only the holder of a Kingdom title is allowed to change these laws, and they will affect the whole geographical kingdom, regardless of whether a province is actually under its de facto control"
"Only the holder of a Kingdom title is allowed to change these laws, and they will affect the whole geographical kingdom, regardless of whether a province is actually under its de facto control"
Read the whole DD paragraph again and you'll realize that every demesne has its own succession laws. Kings do not determine the succession of landed vassals. "Demesne" = The law handles all of your titles.
On the kingdom level it is different: Here succession law only handles a single kingdom, not necessarily the whole demesne. Different kingdoms can therefore have different laws, even if the king titles are held by the same person.
On the kingdom level it is different: Here succession law only handles a single kingdom, not necessarily the whole demesne. Different kingdoms can therefore have different laws, even if the king titles are held by the same person.
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If a character holds 2 king titles and the succession laws in each of these kingdoms are different and resulted in each kingdom going to different heirs, what happen to a character who holds a duke level title in each of these kingdoms. Who would be his liege?
No known. Presumably the character can choose who to pay homage to. Like when two allies go to war and both ask you to join on their side, as seen in the Potolsk gameplay video.
Good question, simplest answer would be the king in whose kingdom his primary duchy belongs.
But I would like to hear what a dev has to say about this.
Sorry yes, you're right.
I'd like to see a 'do homage' event for new vassals (or new holders of titles) that either result in the vassal becoming more loyal and less likely to rebel, in the title being returned to the king, or in the vassal declaring independance. That way disloyal vassals who refuse to do homage are deprived of their titles, and kingdoms become more or less stable depending on the stewardship of the king and the boldness of the inheritors of titles.
And since the devs have confirmed that a) your primary Duchy is the one which holds your capital, and b) you can change capital at will, if this is true it means you get to choose your liege.
Nick
I wonder about the implications of this though; how will the former primary liege react and how will this be represented?
I'd assume he doesn't get an event that says "a vassal has switched allegiance."
But I'd also assume that he'd automatically have claims over all titles not sworn to him in the area of his primary title. Which means he's got a CB.
In other words February will be the funnest month in the history of the entire human race.
Nick
Interesting. For some reason I was under the impression that in CK2 you could have situations matching the Plantagenet's being kings of England while also holding other titles under the kings of France. Sounds like that's not the case. Regardless, you're right, Nick. February is going to be very interesting! I can't wait to see how the stories these game mechanics create.
I also thought that as it was said by some dev that you can own land that would belong to some other ruler and could still be a vassal of him because of it. Even if you would be on the same tier with him.
They explicitly said that you can only have one liege. You will have some relationship to the de jure ruler of lands where you have territory, but not a de facto vassal/liege relation.
Going by screenshots alone, it looks like Emperors may have their "empire" just spread over everything. In the screenshots we can see the Holy Roman Empire blobbed all the way down to Italy in what appears to be the realm map mode. That seems to be the case unless Northern Italy is actually part of the Kingdom of Germany in this game, which would be strange. The developers have right out said that the borders of duchies and kingdoms will not change in-game so if imperialism is going to happen at all, it'll happen through the imperial titles. We really can't say for sure though. We really do need a proper Emperors themed DD, IMO.
De Jure borders of kingdoms and duchies won't change, bur De Facto bordes can and will change, otherwise CK2 would just be a soap opera, not a strategy game 
I think there was a difference between being a full vassal and owing homage to a king. The English kings owed homage to the French king for their Gascone provinces but were not his vassal.
I was wondering how the game would model an English duke becoming King of the Romans (or emperor of the HRE), as happened during the reign on Henry III, his brother Richard who was Duke of Cornwall was elected as KotR, but kept his Cornwall domains. There was no way Cornwall was part of the HRE and Richard still owned allegience to his brother Henry III (and fought for him against De Montfort), but there was no relationship between Henry and the HRE despite his vassal being it's ruler. I guess this is a one off situation that just won't happen in-game. Unless there are different succession laws for the kingship of the HRE and the duchy's owned by the king - elective law for the king and inherited law of some kind for the duchy?
De Jure borders of kingdoms and duchies won't change, bur De Facto bordes can and will change, otherwise CK2 would just be a soap opera, not a strategy game
No. The de-facto borders don't change. You've confused borders with lieges. The borders changing would mean you could make France part of the Kingdom of England, which we know isn't the case. The Kingdom of France has set borders that don't change in the game, and all of the provinces in the Kingdom of France are considered part of France regardless of who the actual liege of each duchy and county is. Even if Normandy is controlled by a foreign lord, the King of France gets advantages simply because Normandy is considered part of France for the entire game, no matter what. For example the developers have said that rightful lieges will have options to demand or take their rightful vassal lands back from people who shouldn't have them. This is because borders don't change.
I'm not sure if I typed that in a way that makes the point clear. In short, the de-facto liege and the de-jure liege can be different, but the borders never change for anyone in game.
(Off-topic: What's with this silly spam bot, lol?)
Ok, so by "borders" you mean something else than the lines displayed on the map, showing where one realm ends and another begins?