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Thread: Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 14 - Plots

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 14 - Plots

    Hello folks!

    It's Thursday, and you all know what that means... pea soup, pancakes and warm Punsch! Also, a Crusader Kings II dev diary. Today's topic is Plots. Like in EU:Rome, characters can have a specific ambition in life. It can be innocuous things like getting married, getting rich, or having a nice glass of warm Punsch, but sometimes it can be more sinister, like having your wife fall down the stairs. These nasty ambitions are called Plots, and they are hidden from other characters unless they are in on it (or have been made aware of it.) Those of you who have played Sengoku will recognize the general concept, although it works slightly differently in Crusader Kings II. You pick an available plot, then you can start inviting other characters into it. If the plot is military in nature, like gaining control of a title, the plot gains power from rulers commanding a military force. If it's an intrigue plot, you should rather invite those who are close to the target of the plot. Plot power is just a percentage, and will unlock new events and decisions the further along it is. At 100% plot power, the plot is likely to succeed.

    The problem is that Spymasters (the council position) can discover plots, depending on their intrigue skill vs the plotter's intrigue skill. Unless they too are in on it, they will report to their liege, who can then choose to take action. If you are lucky, he might just demand that you cease and desist. However, since he has evidence of your scheming, he is allowed to imprison you without repercussions (normally, other characters will perceive you as a tyrant when you throw people in the dungeon.) Being imprisoned automatically ends the plot, by the way.

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    These are some of the more interesting plots:
    • Change the Succession Law
    • Take a landed title from your Liege
    • Have a character killed

    Over the last week we've been balancing the succession law plots, because everyone and their uncle were plotting to institute Elective Monarchy. (In 1453, all kingdoms had ended up with this law.) Of course, it does make perfect sense for vassals to pick this plot, because it gives them a chance of getting elected themselves. However, it wasn't very nice of the Duke of Aquitaine to start a civil war over this right when King Philippe was trying to take Normandy back from William the Conqueror... So, we tweaked the likelihood of others joining in the plot and tightened up the conditions for taking it.

    That's all for now!
    Henrik Fåhraeus

    Abusus non tollit usum

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    First Lieutenant Walker85's Avatar
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    So can I choose an ambition for my character by starting a plot, or is an ambition picked randomly, so that I can only choose whether to start a plot or not?

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    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
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    So if characters with a total of 35 intrigue all plot to institute Elective Law my law changes and I don't get to fight for good ol' Salic Primo? That doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

    Unless by "plot succeeding," you mean something else, like the King getting an event saying "Elective or Civil War," with all plotters automatically against the King.

    Nick

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    What sort of measures you've done to make sure that not every kingdom turns into elective?
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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker85 View Post
    So can I choose an ambition for my character by starting a plot, or is an ambition picked randomly, so that I can only choose whether to start a plot or not?
    You pick your own ambition, of course.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

    Abusus non tollit usum

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    Nice DD. I wonder If "accidents" can happen once a character is imprisoned?

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    Colonel Demi Moderator Pallen's Avatar
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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick B II View Post
    So if characters with a total of 35 intrigue all plot to institute Elective Law my law changes and I don't get to fight for good ol' Salic Primo? That doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

    Unless by "plot succeeding," you mean something else, like the King getting an event saying "Elective or Civil War," with all plotters automatically against the King.

    Nick
    What sort of measures you've done to make sure that not every kingdom turns into elective?
    You can only plot for Elective Monarchy if your liege has a low Crown Authority. That's a law that determines how autonomous vassals are. Also, AI vassals are rather reluctant to join plots against the liege, unless they hate him and love you.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Field Marshal Nick B II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomdark View Post
    You can only plot for Elective Monarchy if your liege has a low Crown Authority. That's a law that determines how autonomous vassals are. Also, AI vassals are rather reluctant to join plots against the liege, unless they hate him and love you.
    But the basic scenario I outlined is accurate:
    If your vassals can plot for Elective, and X Intrigue worth of them do, your law changes to Elective Law? And that you have no opportunity to tell them you're gonna fight them on this, keeping your law and starting a Civil War?

    I can see how a modern person would think a plot like this made sense. But I can't think of a single example where this actually happened in the entire Middle Ages. Yeah some countries went to Elective Law, but that only happened in countries where they ran out of Princes. Everywhere else the vassals were happy to keep Crown Authority low, and leave the ruling dynasty in place.

    Nick

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    Paradox Unofficial Poker Brat Drakken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick B II View Post
    I can see how a modern person would think a plot like this made sense. But I can't think of a single example where this actually happened in the entire Middle Ages. Yeah some countries went to Elective Law, but that only happened in countries where they ran out of Princes. Everywhere else the vassals were happy to keep Crown Authority low, and leave the ruling dynasty in place.

    Nick
    Huh, Louis I of England? Invited, elected, whatever. Elective Law means the vassals want to pick the next King because the current King is a newt. The rest is left to the imagination, may be a formal assembly of the Peers of the realm or a cabal of plotters pushing a candidate to the throne.

    You have the opportunity to learn what is happening and imprison the vassals who dare create sedition by wanting to elect the next King, which as Doomdark stated ends the plot.

    Also, Doomdark mentioned that the Duke of Aquitaine started a civil war over this plot, so yeah it's not a matter of the King automatically see that his succession law has changed, he has a chance to win the civil war and crush the plotters.
    Last edited by Drakken; 06-10-2011 at 16:28.

  12. #12
    Sounds good, and I hope it is as rich as it seems. Many things to plot about is very important to make this feature shine.

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakken View Post
    Huh, Louis I of England? Invited, elected, whatever. Elective Law means the vassals want to pick the next King, because the current King is a newt. The rest is left to the imagination, may be a formal assembly of the Peers of the realm or a cabal of plotters pushing a candidate to the throne.

    You have the opportunity to learn what is happening and imprison the vassals who dare create sedition by wanting to elect the next King, which as Doomdark stated ends the plot.
    Yep, talk to them, imprison them, or have them killed. Your choice.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Sound cool, but I'm more then a little disturbed by your obsession with punsch. Not that I'm worrying about you drinking at work, but the fact that punsch is the most vile foul tasting form of alcohol ever invented. Its so damn sweet it makes your teeth fall out. And without teeth Doomdark could starve to death before finishing CK 2
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    That is SO great ! I'm gonna love it !

    But I have a question about it. I played Crusader King the first a lot, and still do it sometimes. A very annoying thing about this game was the whole civil war mecanism : if a king was getting excomunicated (or became crazy, etc), all of his vassals would eventually declare war on him and have claim on his crown... And the next king was the first to occupy all his lands.

    Does this ambition system will allow a powerful vassal to have a "Claim on throne" ambition, so he could be joined by other vassals and make a civil war with only two ennemies (following the king or the disloyal vassal), and maybe ask some landed lord to stay neutral ? That would be great too !

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volaille View Post
    That is SO great ! I'm gonna love it !

    But I have a question about it. I played Crusader King the first a lot, and still do it sometimes. A very annoying thing about this game was the whole civil war mecanism : if a king was getting excomunicated (or became crazy, etc), all of his vassals would eventually declare war on him and have claim on his crown... And the next king was the first to occupy all his lands.

    Does this ambition system will allow a powerful vassal to have a "Claim on throne" ambition, so he could be joined by other vassals and make a civil war with only two ennemies (following the king or the disloyal vassal), and maybe ask some landed lord to stay neutral ? That would be great too !
    Well, yes. The backers of some plots, like the Elective Monarchy one, will be allies in the war if the King refuses to submit. There are also other mechanics to ensure that civil wars consist of whole groups of vassals revolting.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Imperial Vicar of the HRE Ruwaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volaille View Post
    That is SO great ! I'm gonna love it !

    But I have a question about it. I played Crusader King the first a lot, and still do it sometimes. A very annoying thing about this game was the whole civil war mecanism : if a king was getting excomunicated (or became crazy, etc), all of his vassals would eventually declare war on him and have claim on his crown... And the next king was the first to occupy all his lands.

    Does this ambition system will allow a powerful vassal to have a "Claim on throne" ambition, so he could be joined by other vassals and make a civil war with only two ennemies (following the king or the disloyal vassal), and maybe ask some landed lord to stay neutral ? That would be great too !
    I agree that the number of pretenders should be limited, especially for claimants with no link to the previous dynasty, however claimants with a not too distant link to the royal dynasty either through the male (sibling and eventually cadet branch) or female line should get the opportunity to 'claim the throne'.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomdark View Post
    Well, yes. The backers of some plots, like the Elective Monarchy one, will be allies in the war if the King refuses to submit. There are also other mechanics to ensure that civil wars consist of whole groups of vassals revolting.
    Brilliant !

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    The system sounds interesting and more thought out than in Sengoku which is a plus, but someone for the love of all that is good get DOOMDARK his punsch!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick B II View Post
    But the basic scenario I outlined is accurate:
    If your vassals can plot for Elective, and X Intrigue worth of them do, your law changes to Elective Law? And that you have no opportunity to tell them you're gonna fight them on this, keeping your law and starting a Civil War?

    I can see how a modern person would think a plot like this made sense. But I can't think of a single example where this actually happened in the entire Middle Ages. Yeah some countries went to Elective Law, but that only happened in countries where they ran out of Princes. Everywhere else the vassals were happy to keep Crown Authority low, and leave the ruling dynasty in place.

    Nick
    Just becous it dident hapened dosent mean it culdent have hapened and this is a game where you can ceate an alternative history


    EDIT: oh and yea lovely Diary this time as always! me so happy!

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