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CK2 is enough for me, and will be for a while. EU3's mechanics didn't work for me in 1399, though I do miss a lot of the features developed along the way in that game and in Rome, so I'm more interested in seeing where CK2 will go first.

The family dynamics would work well pretty deep into the EU timeline, so maybe we will see something hybrid in a Renaissance expansion for CK2 paving the way to EU4? Just an idea.
 
I'd much prefer Paradox not start work on EUIV for some time to come. A game set in Classical Europe -- but not necessarily Rome II or with the same timeline as Rome I -- would be nice.
 
I want a Mongols game, trying to unite the different clans so that I can conquer China.
 
2. EU3 is too big and unbalanced now. It has too many features added over the years. They could be fused or reinvented.
Most of the problems come because of nature of expansions. They have to, err, expand, not remake the game. So P-x tried to remain many things but they've still added much and more is not always better.
F.e.:
- Culture is now similar to naval/army tradition, but stands away. We could get specific screen for all of traditions with similar mechanics like decisions requiring each (or all) levels of traditions.
- Change colonial system. I think it's one of a few things never touched by expansions.
- Make clumsy big systems into something simpler. F.e. trade or rebels.
- Some systems are overshadowed. I don't remember any significant province decisions except ones in capital.
- Some systems are not used at all. Spere of influence or national focus is a potentially nice features but it affects nothing at all.

So I'd want all those features remade into something simpler and consistent.
 
Making EU4 would be a horribly complicated thing to do.

Everyone would compare the new game to EU3 with all expansions and there is no way a new game with a normal budget and development time could keep up with that, in terms of the sheer number of features and polishing.

So they would have to find ways to improve the game in novel and unexpected ways to make up for that.

Or they could just brave the inevitable shXXstorm and release an updated basic platform, that will surpass EU3 only after a bunch of DLCs .
 
yak said:
Making EU4 would be a horribly complicated thing to do.

Everyone would compare the new game to EU3 with all expansions and there is no way a new game with a normal budget and development time could keep up with that, in terms of the sheer number of features and polishing.
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I remember everyone was complaining about EU3 being worse than EU2 till the second expansion. But it was mostly because of paradigm change. Look at CK2, everybody loves it. If P-x spends as much time on EU4 I believe it will be even cooler.
 
Buladelu said:
I remember everyone was complaining about EU3 being worse than EU2 till the second expansion. But it was mostly because of paradigm change. Look at CK2, everybody loves it. If P-x spends as much time on EU4 I believe it will be even cooler.
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CK2 is not really comparable. Most of the people who bought it never even played the first game. While CK:DV is a great game, it certainly didnt see continued development the way EU3 did.

EU3 including all patches and expansions was developed over the course of roughly 5 years and since it was quite successful a big part of the audience of EU4 will make the direct comparison.
 
yak said:
CK2 is not really comparable. Most of the people who bought it never even played the first game. While CK:DV is a great game, it certainly didnt see continued development the way EU3 did.

EU3 including all patches and expansions was developed over the course of roughly 5 years and since it was quite successful a big part of the audience of EU4 will make the direct comparison.
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CK:DV has a problem with name P-x should never repeat. Well, after EU3:DW.

As I've said EU3 had big parts of it rewritten which is always worse than having all parts planned from the beginning.
 
Buladelu said:
- Some systems are not used at all. Spere of influence or national focus is a potentially nice features but it affects nothing at all.
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What? Spheres of Influence are hugely useful. As well as the magistrate gain, having a Sphere companion is sort of like having a vassal. They won't fight for you in war, but you get a permanent guarrantee on them and other people have to keep out of their business. And the National focus is really great as well, especially when you want a quick boost to colonial growth or missionary chance.
 
Fishman786 said:
What? Spheres of Influence are hugely useful. As well as the magistrate gain, having a Sphere companion is sort of like having a vassal. They won't fight for you in war, but you get a permanent guarrantee on them and other people have to keep out of their business. And the National focus is really great as well, especially when you want a quick boost to colonial growth or missionary chance.
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National focus is useful, but not so. It's too small feature and hardly tied to general gameplay. In HttT it affected many province decisions, but not so much anymore. So it's just small bonus to provinces and way to get CB IIRC. There's not much strategy in using it.

As for sphere - perhaps I haven't played big empires that much but apart from magistrate bonus I don't see how is it different from regular guarantee. Again this future isn't connected to other features. You get the same benefits from any state, culture, borders etc doesn't affect it, even trade isn't affected. So not much strategy in fight for sphere and the same boring benefits.
 
Magistrates are one of your main limiters in building up, and all buildings built in the NF area refund half their magistrate cost, so it's pretty useful IMO. They also may cause border friction CBs, and help with colonising or converting provinces. I am always using my NF when I play.
 
Darkrenown said:
Magistrates are one of your main limiters in building up, and all buildings built in the NF area refund half their magistrate cost, so it's pretty useful IMO. They also may cause border friction CBs, and help with colonising or converting provinces. I am always using my NF when I play.
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Didn't know buildings built in NF area refund half their magistrate cost. How? Is it an event or is it just silently added to the stored magistrates when the building is finished?
 
Darkrenown said:
Magistrates are one of your main limiters in building up, and all buildings built in the NF area refund half their magistrate cost, so it's pretty useful IMO. They also may cause border friction CBs, and help with colonising or converting provinces. I am always using my NF when I play.
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Not my point. They're useful, but not connected to other game aspects. Compare to V2 where NF was planned from the beginning - it's essential and versatile element of gameplay. It's affected by population, research. It affects migration, industry, promotion and colonization. In EU3 it isn't affected by anything. It affects many things, but you can perfectly live without it and never now it's there. You can't build strategy on it, there's nothing you couldn't achieve without it, it just slightly helps. I'm not saying it's a bad game design but it may be much better.
 
Buladelu said:
CK:DV has a problem with name P-x should never repeat. Well, after EU3:DW.

As I've said EU3 had big parts of it rewritten which is always worse than having all parts planned from the beginning.
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Hehe I agree on the naming.

I disagree with the rest though. You have a point about some redundant work that was certainly done there. On the other hand i personally believe that iterative design can lead to better results than theoretically perfect planning.

As such i believe that the level of refinement that five years of player feedback and practical experience provided can not easily be transfered to a completely new product.

Anyways I am not saying it is impossible that Paradox can make a polished and well received EU4 out of the box. Just saying that expectations will be high and they will have a harder time impressing their fans than they would have if they made some other game.
 
yak said:
Hehe I agree on the naming.

I disagree with the rest though. You have a point about some redundant work that was certainly done there. On the other hand i personally believe that iterative design can lead to better results than theoretically perfect planning.

As such i believe that the level of refinement that five years of player feedback and practical experience provided can not easily be transfered to a completely new product.

Anyways I am not saying it is impossible that Paradox can make a polished and well received EU4 out of the box. Just saying that expectations will be high and they will have a harder time impressing their fans than they would have if they made some other game.
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Well, everybody loves EU3, V2 and CK2. I think Paradox now can only make HoI4, Rome 2 or Sengoku 2.

I believe EU4 can be incredible. There are so many things they can remake that they couldn't change in mere expansions.
 
Buladelu said:
Well, everybody loves EU3, V2 and CK2. I think Paradox now can only make HoI4, Rome 2 or Sengoku 2.
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After the disaster that was HoI3, I don't ever want to see HoI4.
 
Taylor said:
Didn't know buildings built in NF area refund half their magistrate cost. How? Is it an event or is it just silently added to the stored magistrates when the building is finished?
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The latter.

Buladelu said:
Not my point. They're useful, but not connected to other game aspects. Compare to V2 where NF was planned from the beginning - it's essential and versatile element of gameplay. It's affected by population, research. It affects migration, industry, promotion and colonization. In EU3 it isn't affected by anything. It affects many things, but you can perfectly live without it and never now it's there. You can't build strategy on it, there's nothing you couldn't achieve without it, it just slightly helps. I'm not saying it's a bad game design but it may be much better.
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Gotta disagree with you, it can double the rate you can do various tasks which is a fairly major change and if you don't base your strategy around it you are missing out.

See? We don't even recognize some of NF's benefits.
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I'm fairly sure it's told in the manual and/or loading tips and/or tooltips.
 
Tanzhang (譚張) said:
After the disaster that was HoI3, I don't ever want to see HoI4.
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Frankly, HoI3 is a good game these days. If you only played v1.0 and left it forever, well I can't blame you, it was poor. But patched up it was a certainly not a disaster. And with FTM it's rather good IMO. If base HoI3 was all you played you are really in no position to judge the current state of the game or what we'd potentially do in future. I see you have V2, Sengoku and CK2 as well, all these games came after HoI3 and I hope you'll agree they're steadily improved in quality based on lessons learned.
 
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