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Reworking Manufactories to mesh better with the trade system would be nice - having a manufactory for each raw material, and having them create a 'better' material from it (i.e. sugar -> rum) would be nice, and wouldn't be massively complex. Then, allow the manufactory's profit to be handled by the centre of trade, rather that just handing out flat bonuses to certain tech speeds.
 
Kerry said:
Yes, but the question is how to achieve this.
There are a few things that could be done based on current (and proposed) systems:
Click to expand...

I like all of these suggesitons but honestlu I'd like to see a solution involving graphics too. Interacting with Japan should give a different graphical experience than interacting with Ireland.
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
I like all of these suggesitons but honestlu I'd like to see a solution involving graphics too. Interacting with Japan should give a different graphical experience than interacting with Ireland.
Click to expand...

I think a graphic upgrade goes without saying - and hopefully an engine upgrade too.
 
Europa Universalis IV (EU4) - could be truly awsome if a few changes were made to the timeline. First of all new save game converters to connect the various Paradox games better. I'm especially thinking about CK2, "EU4", the next Victoria 2 expansion and HoI3.

Crusader King II (CK2), another great game from paradox, gives an excellent depiction of the dark ages in Europe. CK2 beginns in 1066 and ends in 1453, an expansion to CK2 could easily extend the timeline to 31. December 1491 (pre-Columbus' journey to the Americas).

EU4 should begin with Columbus' setting sails for the new world and extending timeline from EU3 untill 31. December 1869 (pre-German unification). This way you could re-play many more historic events in EU4. I'm thinking of "The South American Wars of Independence", "The Crimean War", "The American-Mexican Wars" and "The American Civil War". All the above are much easier portrayed in an EU-game than they would be in an Vic2 expansion (AHD).

The next Victoria 2 expansion could then begin just after the unification of Germany on 18. January 1871 with an extended timeline to 1939 or 1941! No need for another WW2 game as the HOI-series already covers that war in the best possible way.
 
nett40 said:
Crusader King II (CK2), another great game from paradox, gives an excellent depiction of the dark ages in Europe. CK2 beginns in 1066 and ends in 1453, an expansion to CK2 could easily extend the timeline to 31. December 1491 (pre-Columbus' journey to the Americas).
Click to expand...
The Middle ages are not the same as the Dark ages.
 
nett40 said:
Europa Universalis IV (EU4) - could be truly awsome if a few changes were made to the timeline. First of all new save game converters to connect the various Paradox games better. I'm especially thinking about CK2, "EU4", the next Victoria 2 expansion and HoI3.

Crusader King II (CK2), another great game from paradox, gives an excellent depiction of the dark ages in Europe. CK2 beginns in 1066 and ends in 1453, an expansion to CK2 could easily extend the timeline to 31. December 1491 (pre-Columbus' journey to the Americas).

EU4 should begin with Columbus' setting sails for the new world and extending timeline from EU3 untill 31. December 1869 (pre-German unification). This way you could re-play many more historic events in EU4. I'm thinking of "The South American Wars of Independence", "The Crimean War", "The American-Mexican Wars" and "The American Civil War". All the above are much easier portrayed in an EU-game than they would be in an Vic2 expansion (AHD).

The next Victoria 2 expansion could then begin just after the unification of Germany on 18. January 1871 with an extended timeline to 1939 or 1941! No need for another WW2 game as the HOI-series already covers that war in the best possible way.
Click to expand...

Why bother moving the CK end date forward, and moving the EU start date back to accommodate it? And why cut out 35 years from the start of V2 and add in 3 years at the end...? If anything, 1815 is the logical switchover point between EU and Vicky - and having EU do the industrial revolution when Vicky is the ideal system to handle it is downright silly. I also don't see why it's easier to portray the American civil war in EU than it is in V2 (where it's already quite capably represented).

I think the timeline divisions between the series are fine as-is, really, and I can't see any advantage to changing it.
 
Naselus said:
Why bother moving the CK end date forward, and moving the EU start date back to accommodate it? And why cut out 35 years from the start of V2 and add in 3 years at the end...? If anything, 1815 is the logical switchover point between EU and Vicky - and having EU do the industrial revolution when Vicky is the ideal system to handle it is downright silly. I also don't see why it's easier to portray the American civil war in EU than it is in V2 (where it's already quite capably represented).

I think the timeline divisions between the series are fine as-is, really, and I can't see any advantage to changing it.
Click to expand...

Why is 1815 the logical switchover point between EU and Vicky? EU3 ends in 1820 and Vic2 beginns in 1836!

The industrial revolution didn't take off outside of Britain untill the later half of the 19th century. Britain is a juggernaut from the get go and that is why Vic2, as it is today, is extremely unbalanced. If you beginn Vic2 around 1871, then the other powers have caught up with Britain. This rarely happens in Vic2, if the game is played from 1836. Britain can quite easily keep most other Great Powers behind it throughout the game, cause it starts of too superior (as the UK was IRL in 1836).

The USA is too powerfull globally in AHD, it even dwarfs Prussia from the start. Prussia had the most powerfull and advanced military IRL during the later half of the 18th century. Prussia fought three quick and very succesfull wars (1864, 1866 and 1871), if seen from a Prussian perspective. This makes the American Civil War a very bad scenario (in Vic2), because the Confederates looses too quickly and the americans quickly becomes a juggernaut like the UK. Leaving France, Prussia (Germany), Russia and the other potential GPs far behind them.

Ironclads, machine guns and other new terrifying inventions of the industrial revolutions, didn't really make an impact untill late in the 1860'ies. The monitors of the Civil War could be advanced galleys in EU4, as they where quite incapable of oceanic voyages. The first Ironclads, some where even ordrered by the CSA, but they where not available before the CSA had surrendered to the USA. No need to portray industrial revolution in EU4, as the military units of the the pre-1870 era weren't industrialized yet. War ships of the 1860'ies were still well known concepts such as: ships of the line, frigates (some had iron plates attached to their hull in the later half 1860'ies) and clipper transports. The three branches of the armies were also still: infantry, cavalry and artillery.
 
James The 1st said:
The Middle ages are not the same as the Dark ages.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're right Crusader King should end in 1453, as there is no need for canons in CK2.

EU4 could then start with the fall of constatinople in 1453.
 
nett40 said:
Why is 1815 the logical switchover point between EU and Vicky? EU3 ends in 1820 and Vic2 beginns in 1836!

The industrial revolution didn't take off outside of Britain untill the later half of the 19th century. Britain is a juggernaut from the get go and that is why Vic2, as it is today, is extremely unbalanced. If you beginn Vic2 around 1871, then the other powers have caught up with Britain. This rarely happens in Vic2, if the game is played from 1836. Britain can quite easily keep most other Great Powers behind it throughout the game, cause it starts of too superior (as the UK was IRL in 1836).

The USA is too powerfull globally in AHD, it even dwarfs Prussia from the start. Prussia had the most powerfull and advanced military IRL during the later half of the 18th century. Prussia fought three quick and very succesfull wars (1864, 1866 and 1871), if seen from a Prussian perspective. This makes the American Civil War a very bad scenario (in Vic2), because the Confederates looses too quickly and the americans quickly becomes a juggernaut like the UK. Leaving France, Prussia (Germany), Russia and the other potential GPs far behind them.

Ironclads, machine guns and other new terrifying inventions of the industrial revolutions, didn't really make an impact untill late in the 1860'ies. The monitors of the Civil War could be advanced galleys in EU4, as they where quite incapable of oceanic voyages. The first Ironclads, some where even ordrered by the CSA, but they where not available before the CSA had surrendered to the USA. No need to portray industrial revolution in EU4, as the military units of the the pre-1870 era weren't industrialized yet. War ships of the 1860'ies were still well known concepts such as: ships of the line, frigates (some had iron plates attached to their hull in the later half 1860'ies) and clipper transports. The three branches of the armies were also still: infantry, cavalry and artillery.
Click to expand...

The industrial revolution isnt just steam ships and cars, it is coal and mining, trains. That was going on for the first half of the 19th century, the Industrial Revolution. That isn't modeled nearly as well in EU3, and way better in Vic2. EU3, and presumably EU4 can't really model the beginning of the game, as well as industrialization. That is EU3 should end in 1815 or 21 like it does now.
 
nett40 said:
Why is 1815 the logical switchover point between EU and Vicky? EU3 ends in 1820 and Vic2 beginns in 1836!
Click to expand...

Yes, but 1815 and the concert of Europe is the logical switchover point. It marked an end to the European wars for supremacy and the beginning of a hundred years of uneasy peace, with only brief, small-scale warfare. The game should move away from the warfare focus of EU and into a domestic focus which Vicky undoubtedly handles much better than any of the other games.

The industrial revolution didn't take off outside of Britain untill the later half of the 19th century. Britain is a juggernaut from the get go and that is why Vic2, as it is today, is extremely unbalanced. If you beginn Vic2 around 1871, then the other powers have caught up with Britain. This rarely happens in Vic2, if the game is played from 1836. Britain can quite easily keep most other Great Powers behind it throughout the game, cause it starts of too superior (as the UK was IRL in 1836).
Click to expand...

That's basically a balance thing, tho. The UK in V2 needs to be a sprinter - it starts off ahead, and can get further ahead, but can't maintain it's dominance. The UK already struggles to keep it's tech lead past around 1860, due to the drag factor of India making clerk populations insignificant.

The USA is too powerfull globally in AHD, it even dwarfs Prussia from the start. Prussia had the most powerfull and advanced military IRL during the later half of the 18th century. Prussia fought three quick and very succesfull wars (1864, 1866 and 1871), if seen from a Prussian perspective. This makes the American Civil War a very bad scenario (in Vic2), because the Confederates looses too quickly and the americans quickly becomes a juggernaut like the UK. Leaving France, Prussia (Germany), Russia and the other potential GPs far behind them.
Click to expand...

Again, that's just a balance thing. Prussia really should NOT be a frightening monster in 1836 (or 1861 either, for that matter - it's easy to look back and say they were the most powerful nation in the world, but at the time no-one would have ranked them alongside Russia, France, or even Austria). As to the USA, it is overpowered a little atm, but a couple of small script changes can completely invert that - it's not worth tearing half the game off to avoid a couple of minor text edits.

Ironclads, machine guns and other new terrifying inventions of the industrial revolutions, didn't really make an impact untill late in the 1860'ies. The monitors of the Civil War could be advanced galleys in EU4, as they where quite incapable of oceanic voyages. The first Ironclads, some where even ordrered by the CSA, but they where not available before the CSA had surrendered to the USA. No need to portray industrial revolution in EU4, as the military units of the the pre-1870 era weren't industrialized yet. War ships of the 1860'ies were still well known concepts such as: ships of the line, frigates (some had iron plates attached to their hull in the later half 1860'ies) and clipper transports. The three branches of the armies were also still: infantry, cavalry and artillery.
Click to expand...

Except the industrial revolution was about industry, which V2 models and EU doesn't. The clue was in the title 'industrial' rather than 'modern weapons revolution'. Eu already does a fairly bad job of the extreme ends of the timeline anyway - you have barely any income for the opening 50 years, and almost limitless cash for the last 50 - so extending the timeline further forward is unlikely to help. Further, EU3 has little means of simulating the 1848 revolutions, the growth of ideologies, and all the other things which POPs do so well (Britain's industrial revolution would either be far too small, or limitless, under the EU approach to province buildings).

The timeline is fine, frankly.
 
flame7926 said:
The industrial revolution isnt just steam ships and cars, it is coal and mining, trains. That was going on for the first half of the 19th century, the Industrial Revolution. That isn't modeled nearly as well in EU3, and way better in Vic2. EU3, and presumably EU4 can't really model the beginning of the game, as well as industrialization. That is EU3 should end in 1815 or 21 like it does now.
Click to expand...

That's the old model though. One must think outside the box and find a way to mesh the two periods. If you're trying to truely improve the experience.... instead of throwing a new shell on an old product.
 
I frankly don't get the fascination of converting an EU III game into Vicky II. But whatever rocks your boat. ;)

Speaking of timelines: My favourite timeline for EU IV would be 1453 (i.e. after the Conquest of Constantinople) to 1776 (US declaration of independence) and for Vicky II(I) 1776 to 1918.

I don't think the EU III set-up properly handles the independence of the colonies nor the French Revolution and the following wars, Vicky II, with a bit of love for the warfare aspect in an expansion, could do a better job.
 
I too see no reason to make the game start any earlier than the CK2 end date. CK2 is easy enough to play, not like CK1 where it could become a real chore to play all the way to 1453.

And EU3 does not do a very great job of modelling the late middle ages, not in the 1399 start and definitely not in the MEIOU 1359 (?) start.
 
Naselus said:
Reworking Manufactories to mesh better with the trade system would be nice - having a manufactory for each raw material, and having them create a 'better' material from it (i.e. sugar -> rum) would be nice, and wouldn't be massively complex. Then, allow the manufactory's profit to be handled by the centre of trade, rather that just handing out flat bonuses to certain tech speeds.
Click to expand...

To be honest, if there's something that needs to be reworked in the EU series it's the CoT economic system. It's silly and overly simplistic. There were already calls for its scrapping and replacement ranging all the way to EU 2, and it was something I was most surprised when I saw they kept the whole thing intact for EU 3.
 
I suggest fallowing thinks

- 1453-1836 it is time between ck2 and vic2 it is perfect timeline

- Muslims and Asian countries should be based on current ruling dynasty like Muslims are on CK2

- There should similar ranks system what vic2 uses

- Every country should have two flags monarch and republic flag

- Colonial revolters should be dynamic like if Norway colonizes Canada they will revolt as other name and use Norwegian ruler names instead of English
 
In terms of timeline, I would nominate two start dates:

1419: The start date of EU2, enabling you to play out the hundred years war.
1453: Most of the powers of the period are in place at this point, and so there should be less odd divergences with this date. Economically, it was decisive as it cut Europe off from trade with the east, and drove the portuguese expeditions.

In terms of end date, that's less clear, but I'd say before the French Revolution, and let that period be covered by March of the Eagles.

I also agree on changing CoTs. That system never felt realistic. Mercantilism should be about exploiting price differences! Also, the religion aspect should be coverage with a similiar level as Dei Gratia, with the reformation being less random, and giving the player more control over it.

Finally, Renaissance Italy needs an overhaul. There never was a proper representation of the rivalry between the Papacy, Holy Roman Emperor, France and Venice over the region. Perhaps they could bring back EU2 style alliances for "leagues" (holy league, league of cambrai etc.)
 
I think the thing they should focus most on improving in EUIV is trade. That's the place where Paradox has always been weakest. Next up would be a logistics system for armies and navies, heavily affected by geography and rivers.
 
jmschaub said:
That's the old model though. One must think outside the box and find a way to mesh the two periods. If you're trying to truely improve the experience.... instead of throwing a new shell on an old product.
Click to expand...

Yes, EU4 has to offer a new take on this franchise. With a different timeline, you could integrate the best of EU3 with the best of Vic2 in the next version. The pop system and economic system from Vic2 would be great things to add.

If you take a look at the Darkest Hour, you have an excellent expansion/mod, which proves that you can make something good if you dare to think out of the box. It includes both the 1st and 2nd World War as playable scenarios in a Hearts of Iron game.

Back to EU4 - Why not a looong timeline from 1453 to 1905. The start should be primitive and slow, but as you slowly advance your nation more and more technologies and better units become available. However, this would still be a pre-dreadnought, pre-flight and pre-tank game as none of the above existed in 1905. The most advanced big ship could be the Ironclad Battleship, the most advanced frigate-sized ship could be the Merchant Raider and the most advanced galley-sized ship could be the Monitor. Armies would still only have three branches: Infantry, Artillery and Cavalry.

This would be out of the box thinking...
 
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