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Shadow of the Andes - An Interactive Chilean AAR

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Defense of Monastic Schools Act: Abstain
Chilean Airforce Bill 2: Yes

"I would vote in favour of the DMSA, but for two reasons; firstly, it only recognises Catholic Church property as ecclesiastical property, which I find disrespectful of Chile's history of religious tolerance; secondly, because it only respects Catholic, Jesuit, and Orthodox (of all denominations) schools, whereas I believe it should extend to all religious schools. Therefore, the only amendment to be made before I support it is ensuring the immunity of all religious property, not merely the ones stated. If Catholic property belongs to the Vatican, then why should Anglican property not belong to Britain? Make no exceptions or make them all."

Dr. Sebastian Montenegro
 
Ivir Baggins said:
Defense of Monastic Schools Act: Abstain
Chilean Airforce Bill 2: Yes

"I would vote in favour of the DMSA, but for two reasons; firstly, it only recognises Catholic Church property as ecclesiastical property, which I find disrespectful of Chile's history of religious tolerance; secondly, because it only respects Catholic, Jesuit, and Orthodox (of all denominations) schools, whereas I believe it should extend to all religious schools. Therefore, the only amendment to be made before I support it is ensuring the immunity of all religious property, not merely the ones stated. If Catholic property belongs to the Vatican, then why should Anglican property not belong to Britain? Make no exceptions or make them all."


Dr. Sebastian Montenegro
Click to expand...

Chile is a very cosmopolitaine country and I believe in multiculturalism. I believe we should defend other religious minorities as well, but this bill applies to the catholic church and we should make another separate one for the other religions. Why? Because the catholic church is a sovereign entity with

Fuentes, I want to clarify some points of my church bill that you didn't understand:
1°st point: The point is that if by any chance there's a political upheaval once again, the cathedrals and monasteries that are controlled by the Catholic church should be considered just like foreign embassies and shouldn't be attacked by the government or an angry mob.
3°rd point: The point isn't to make all bishops immune to the law and give them a special status. No, you failed to understand (or I failed to explain) that bishops are directly appointed by the Vatican to a certain area and office, and such act as a representative of the Holy See and of the Pope. They respond to the Pope as an emissary responds to his head-of-state. And as such they shouldn't participate in local politics and they should be bound by the Vatican's law. In case of a problem with the law they should really be extraditated to Roma and the Vatican should take the necessary measures, just like if an foreign embassador commited a crime here they should be sent to their nation to face punishment as they were acting as representatives, not as citizens. I want the bishops and high clerical authorities, who are appointed by the Vatican and obey it's laws, to be seen as foreign entities rather than locals. I hope my intentions are clear.

And finally two minor explanations: a) The Catholic Church has special status not because I am a follower of it's faith, but because it has a special diplomatic and international position that other faiths do not have. They are an independent and sovereign political entity and therefore they can own land, unlike muslim mosques and jewish sinagogues. The other faiths deserve representation, I know, but the catholic church has a different status and therefore should have a different treatment. b) In case of social and political upheaval, and if the state is controlled by a not-so-pacifist-and-democratic communist group, then guarantees like these will hold together the church and the nation. Having our churches siezed by a communist government would be like having your trade-unions and social benefits banned under a fascist government: it would upset too many people to let things stay that way. That's why we need to make sure both sides are happy for democracy to suceed. Otherwise, everything goes to hell.

I want to amend my bill. I ask the speaker for guidance, as I do not know: what must I do to fix my bill? I'm afraid it wont pass if it's misunderstood. Can't I wait it to fail and put an improved version to vote some years later?
 
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"I was not saying that Anglican churches should belong to Britain, senor; I was merely using them as an example to illustrate my point that if the Vatican get special rights for their Catholic schools, then other state religions should be entitled to the same rights. Either that, or they get no special rights, thus nullifying clause 1."

Dr. Sebastian Montenegro
 
It's not like the Catholic Church is more important than the Anglican or Orthodox churches. The point is that it has different situations. The populace is almost entirely catholic and the catholic church has a unique political and diplomatic situation as it is controlled by a sovereign state with international recognition. Thus, the bishops and archbishops appointed directly by the Vatican are it's representatives and the cathedrals owned by the church are considered like "foreign property". Arresting a bishop or siezing a catholic cathedral for the state should then be like arresting an embassador or siezing an embassy or a foreign outpost.

I understand your concerns and (if I am allowed to) I will ammend the bill so that it doesn't make that much differences between the catholics and the other faiths, and I am even considering in asking the congress to give a special status to native worship sites (historical sites maybe?)

-Lawyer and Senator G. Tottenheim
 
Defence of Monastic Schools Act: No
Chilean Airforce Bill Pt. 2: Yes

After some consideration, I have decided to recant my support for the DMSA. It's bias has been noted, and the notion that clergymen are above the law is preposterous. Since there have been no attempts to rectify these flaws, I cannot support this bill.

As well, my family business would be interested in aiding the government in creating an airforce. In exchange for some designs, we would be willing to fund the projects, both for national and private use.
 
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DMSA: No.
Airforce Bill: Abstain. Really there are more important things for the Congress to consider than these toys, but I see no reason to stop reasonable experimentation with it.
 
Defense of Monastic Schools Act: No
Chilean Airforce Bill 2: Yes

The religious bias in the DMSA is apalling, and the idea that any Chilean is above the law is ridicolus.
 
Defense of Monastic Schools Act: No

Chilean Airforce Bill: Yes

The Catholic Church should have no political connection with the Chilean State. Bishops should not be considered ambassadors from the Vatican, if you are a bishop in Chile, you are a Chilean citizen. Finally, while I can understand the overall purpose of the bill was to protect the private interests of the Catholic Church from the government, I do not believe the Catholic Church deserves such special treatment.

Chile was not founded to be a nation Kowtowed to a Church on a little plot of land in the middle of Italy, it was founded by people of all different backgrounds. If the honorable senator wishes to propose a Universal bill decreeing all buildings of faith should be protected from the government, with no special clauses for any one faith, I will gladly sign that bill.

But until then, no.
 
"My administration will never apprehend or take Church property or harm any Church in anyway, I myself believe people have the right to believe in what they want and worship where they want."

~ Ernesto F. Fuentes, President
 
So here's the current tally.

Defense of Monastic Schools Act:
Yes:
No: 10
Abstain: 2

Chilean Airforce Bill:
Yes: 10
No: 1
Abstain: 1
 
Defense of Monastic Schools Act: No
The church is merely a tool of the capitalists. It serves no other purpose then to keep the masses weak.They impose a system of "morals" that they themselves do not follow simply to stop the masses the killing all the wretched capitalists.

Chilean Airforce Bill 2: Yes
 
To the honorable Varde:

It seems even the Liberales, your wretched capitalist's as you call them, oppose the bill as well. I am inclined to think no correlation between the church and them. I wonder the difference between a church who controls the minds of the people, and an oppressive government who controls the minds of the people.
 
Fuentes, 1923-1925: The Bloody Twenties​
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A few years of nervous global peace came to an explosive end over a series of border incidents in the French and UK colonial provinces. Egged on by historical tensions, these incidents quickly escalated into an all-out war between France the UK. The war, which came to be known as the 3rd Colonial War between the UK and the Continent united against them, proved to be the most decisive series of British military defeats in recent history and ended in under a year. Abandoned by their few allies in Europe, the UK was forced to fight the French and their allies in the low countries, Spain, Italy, the Ottomans, and the Austrians at the same time. The war began in January; by December, all British holdings in Africa had been overrun by French forces, Malta and Gibraltar had been occupied and the Mediterranean was entirely in European hands. When the Royal Navy suffered a crippling defeat off of Dunkirk and commentators began to speculate that the navy could no longer hold the channel, the UK hastily sued for peace. Despite the scope of their victory, the anti-war Germanist-controlled French government chose to agree to white peace rather than pursue what they viewed as an imperialist seizure of territory.

The world remained at peace for less than a day. The Treaty of Paris (1923) was signed on December 12 at 10 AM sharp. Less than an hour later, at 11 AM, the US Congress declared war against the Confederacy with the intention of reunifying the nation and finally stamping out the specter of slavery from the civilized world. Despite the confederacy's greater naval strength and comparable industrial base, the United States quickly fielded an army nearly twice the size of the Confederacy's, (more than 2 million Union soldiers to the Confederacy's 1.2 million). The resulting bloodbath, which sent shockwaves throughout the Western hemisphere, would earn the decade the nickname "the bloody twenties."

Despite the opportunity for war profiteering, the chaos abroad did little to advance Fuentes' goals. The slight unfriendly anti-left majority in the Congreso frustrated most of President Fuentes' attempts to forward the communist or even the social agenda. Though his "Pueblos Empresa" construction and nationalization effort had been largely successful, the continuing massive immigration boom in Chile outstripped Fuentes' attempts to build up public-sector industry. The Protection of Private Property Act stifled nationalization and redistribution efforts, and the Congreso's stranglehold over tax policy even prevented Fuentes' attempts to shift the tax burden to the rich. In fact, with the right-wing and centrist elements refusing to agree to a new tax scheme, the old interim government plan of 25% across all strata began to generate one of the largest surpluses in Chilean history, peaking at more than 7,820,000 Chilean pesos a day (~10,000 sterling) in 1924. Fuentes' only Congressional victory was the near-unanimous defeat of the "Defense of Monastic Schools Act" of 1923 in the Congreso, which would have granted priests diplomatic immunity, including privilege from arrest.

By 1924, the United States' greater land forces had begun to gain the upper hand in the fight against the Confederacy. The Confederacy decided to press its naval advantage in an effort to check US advances, and unrestricted naval and experimental submarine warfare between the US and the Confederacy began to stifle trade in the Caribbean. In response, Fuentes was able to gain broad support from the Congress to begin a large-scale modernization and modest expansion of the navy, including the construction of 15 new battleships, construction of new naval facilities nation-wide, and research and development into new modern weapons systems. The stated objective of this goal was to protect South American interests from collateral harm due to the 3rd American Civil War, but most naval observers agreed that its unstated goal was to curb French influences in the region. The 1924 Santiago Olympic Games also proved to be a tremendous success, with Chile taking gold medals in boxing, skeet, tennis, high jump, and marathon. Fuentes ended his first term of office on a relative high note, with the 1925 population estimates for the nation now exceeding 77 million individuals and the Chilean economy poised to overtake the UK in the next decade.

Meanwhile, overseas, the first fascist government of Europe emerged as a blackshirt march forced King Maximillian of Bavaria to appoint an ultranationalist Prime Minister, who promised to end frustrations over German dualism and retake Bavarian territories lost to the North German Federation.



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