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Thread: Shadow of the Andes - An Interactive Chilean AAR

  1. #8121
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    President,

    I grow increasingly concerned by the day. You must admit that it is common knowledge that unfortunately, the recent economic boon was by no means attributable to you, or anyone else in the government.

    We must be responsible for ourselves! I urge you to support my bill, because it employs founding bastions of conservatism! You are one of the most well-respected presidents to ever walk the halls of La Moneda, and I truly need your backing here.

    If we are to keep the policies of the status quo, what good was the Republicano platform upon which you ran and won?

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    I disagree sir. The economy boomed because it was freed from the shackles of socialism. My commitment to economic freedom and private property rights gave the industrialists the confidence to expand their businesses. No more did they have to worry about a nationalization of their land or property as they did under the previous government. I am not opposed to your tax cut proposal but i can not support a tariff increase unless it addresses a specific problem. As our industry is booming I see no need to impose it as it is nothing more than a tax increase on the Chilean people.
    Henri Renard - Minister of Wallonia - Deputy for Liege -KKP- Brewer/Entrepreneur - Sponsor and supporter of Liege United FC
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  2. #8122
    Captain cavebear3000's Avatar
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    I agree with Senator Escovedo in that we need to take a more conservative stance as a nation in order to further our rise as an economic superpower. With enough likeminded men... well.... who knows what we could accomplish politically. I do however take note of one possible flaw, the tariff increase. Right now Chile is a huge exporting power that basically has a monopoly on the economies of all South American countries.

    Escovedo is right that we should try as hard as possible to become economically self sufficient so that, if ever we lose our grip on South America, we can still fall back on a lively domestic middle-class market. As long as we maintain an iron grip on the lesser South American countries our economy should be fine.

    I would like to discuss matters of the economy more with you, Senator Escovedo, so please feel free to stop by mi villa this weekend if you're not too busy with legislation.

    ---Caitan Crazzio---

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  3. #8123
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    I am very confused as to the criticism I am receiving about not taking conservative stances. I have the first moralist policy of any President. The economy is booming due to our free market economic approach and Navy is finally being expanded. I feel Senator Escovedo doesn't realize the major changes in policy my Administration has made compared to the last 15 years of Liberal and Socialist Presidents. We no longer have secular, full citizenship policies. Our schools are now providing a religious education. I have let the industrialists expand the economy without fear of nationalization while supporting our domestic defence industry. I do not support a tax increase as Senator Escovedo does with his tariff increase. If he wishes to lower taxes without a tariff increase I would support it. In the past I believed we needed to protect our industry. That is no longer the case as we have some of the most competitive dynamic industry in the world that benefits from a low tariff on the goods they need to import to run their factories.

    President Rivera
    Henri Renard - Minister of Wallonia - Deputy for Liege -KKP- Brewer/Entrepreneur - Sponsor and supporter of Liege United FC
    Formerly Simon Giroux - Minister of Labour - Deputy for Charleroi - Belgian Social Union - Deputy Leader

    Formerly Willem Goossens - Deputy for Brugge - conservative - President of Belgian Veterans Society 1818-1871
    Originally Jean Galler - Deputy for Brussels - Constitutional Delegate and Signer of Belgium Constitution
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  4. #8124
    General Riccardo93's Avatar
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    I believe that we should continue on the path of economic liberalism that has led to over two decades of sustained economic growth. While Senor Rivera may not support as free a market as myself, I do believe that his limited interventionist, combined with my staunchly laissez-faire, views will be able to keep Chile prosperous, without granting government too much power.
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  5. #8125
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardo93 View Post
    I believe that we should continue on the path of economic liberalism that has led to over two decades of sustained economic growth. While Senor Rivera may not support as free a market as myself, I do believe that his limited interventionist, combined with my staunchly laissez-faire, views will be able to keep Chile prosperous, without granting government too much power.
    I agree sir. It appears some on the right such as Escovedo want to emulate the socialists program of a government led economy rather than a free economy. I will not let that happen and will veto any tax increase that passes the Congresso.

    President Rivera
    Henri Renard - Minister of Wallonia - Deputy for Liege -KKP- Brewer/Entrepreneur - Sponsor and supporter of Liege United FC
    Formerly Simon Giroux - Minister of Labour - Deputy for Charleroi - Belgian Social Union - Deputy Leader

    Formerly Willem Goossens - Deputy for Brugge - conservative - President of Belgian Veterans Society 1818-1871
    Originally Jean Galler - Deputy for Brussels - Constitutional Delegate and Signer of Belgium Constitution
    in Edge of Europe- A Belgian Interactive V2 AAR

  6. #8126
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    Rivera, you flee ideas you do not respect. Now, you have truly betrayed the Chilean people. There is not a way in which Laissez Faire can be combined with Interventionism! And then you claim to represent los Republicanos! You are a party disgrace! You do not understand our economic viewpoint, and you now have adopted the liberal stance.

    In honor of the suggestions levied by many of the true Conservatives, I will be lessening the tariff increase on imports to 2%. Thus, the tax decreases outweigh the tariff, while still making it more reasonable to purchase Chilean goods than foreign goods.

    So, my newly amended proposition:

    The National Industry Encouragement Act

    -lower taxes for every strata by 5% in order to
    a.) Increase buying power
    b.) Increase factory demand
    c.) Solidify support for the Government

    -an import tariff increase of 2% in order to
    a.) Ensure that our domestic economy reaps the benefits of lower taxes
    b.) Develop our own industry further
    c.) Maintain the affordability of all goods

    Dutifully yours,

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    Last edited by OldCleric; 13-02-2012 at 04:20.
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  7. #8127
    General Riccardo93's Avatar
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    Am I not a Republicano? Are not the liberales who love this Republic (which I support) Republicanos?

    A tariff increase of that would do little to bring in new revenue to Chile, but would hurt the consumers. I oppose such a measure in favour of a maintaining of tariff levels, and a slight lowering of the tax level, if the budget can handle it. Liberals and conservatives worked well together, especially under my father, and if we ant Chile to have a period of stability, let us work together. Liberalism, especially in economic matters, combined with conservative foreign policy, will be a solid base for the Republic.
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  8. #8128
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    Senor Escovedo,

    I have been a Republicano since before you were born. You are an ideologue who does not understand the economy similar to those on the left. I choose policies which lead to prosperity. Sometimes tariffs are needed and sometimes they are not. Right now they are not needed, in the future they may be needed again, who can say. My economic record speaks for itself. You are a young whippersnapper who should learn to respect your elders.

    President Rivera
    Henri Renard - Minister of Wallonia - Deputy for Liege -KKP- Brewer/Entrepreneur - Sponsor and supporter of Liege United FC
    Formerly Simon Giroux - Minister of Labour - Deputy for Charleroi - Belgian Social Union - Deputy Leader

    Formerly Willem Goossens - Deputy for Brugge - conservative - President of Belgian Veterans Society 1818-1871
    Originally Jean Galler - Deputy for Brussels - Constitutional Delegate and Signer of Belgium Constitution
    in Edge of Europe- A Belgian Interactive V2 AAR

  9. #8129
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    I am not an idealist. I am a conservative. I have only the utmost respect for you, Presidente, but you do not understand the core of the matter. You are betraying your platform. Perhaps the heated arguments have gotten to all of our heads. I propose that we all step back and evaluate our principles.

    If you would care to look, I have revised my Act to be more friendly towards your policies, and the cries of the left. The tariff has been reduced to 2%, leaving an overall tax decrease of 3% which increases the purchasing power of Chileans. This consequently drives down the prices of all goods relative to income, while still encouraging Chilean goods over foreign ones.

    Presidente, I hope that we can resolve this matter and come out as friends. Now, I call upon all Chileans to support the Industry Encouragement Act, as it accomplishes the goals of the left and right alike!

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  10. #8130
    Mayor zagoroth's Avatar
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    Perhaps the 3rd Republic needs some youth to shake things up a bite, not dinosaurs who think they know whats best.

    While I am opposed to any Tariff, because i believe what is best for Chilean industry is efficiency in the World market, I will personally be okay with any increase in tariff to be offset by an equal decrease in tax across the boards.

    My two cents.

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  11. #8131
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  12. #8132
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    I will take a look at the revised bill. I am not betraying my platform as I ran on a Free Trade platform. I also pushed to subsidize our domestic defence industry while I was Minister of the Interior in the previous administration and have continued that policy as we can not rely on the market solely to ensure we can produce our needed armaments domestically. I intervene in the economy when it is necessary.

    President Rivera
    Henri Renard - Minister of Wallonia - Deputy for Liege -KKP- Brewer/Entrepreneur - Sponsor and supporter of Liege United FC
    Formerly Simon Giroux - Minister of Labour - Deputy for Charleroi - Belgian Social Union - Deputy Leader

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  13. #8133
    Let us crush these pathetic Germanista's like the insect's they are

    Land Seizure Compensation Act: Yes
    Reclaim Our Youth Bill: Yes
    Equality Act: Abstain
    Industrial Encouragement Act: Yes
    I wonder what the current vote talley is.
    Last edited by LeeroyJenkins; 13-02-2012 at 05:35.

  14. #8134
    Here's a running tally.

    Land Seizure Compensation Act:
    Yes: 7
    No: 13
    Abstain: 1

    Reclaim Our Youth Bill:
    Yes: 8
    No: 14
    Abstain:

    Equality Act:
    Yes: 16
    No: 2
    Abstain: 3

    Industrial Encouragement Act:
    Yes: 8
    No: 6
    Abstain: 7
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  15. #8135
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    You make my point! We must make more goods in Chile as opposed to relying on foreign goods! The way to jump start our domestic industry is by raising the prices on European goods that serve only to make other nations stronger.

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    If you raise prices on foreign goods, domestic producers will be able to sell more of the goods they produce more expensively. That is unlikely to jump start them. It is even more unlikely to help the common Chilean.
    Last edited by WelshDude; 13-02-2012 at 11:01.
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  16. #8136
    Land Seizure Compensation Act: Yes
    Reclaim Our Youth Bill: no
    Equality Act: Yes
    Industrial Encouragement Act: No
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  17. #8137
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    "Let us crush these pathetic Germanista's like the insect's they are"

    Watch your tongue, Senor, they are Chilean citizens just like any of us. But the law of order dictates they be put in their place.

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  18. #8138
    As ever, I stand with the Government.

    Land Seizure Compensation Act: Yea
    Reclaim Our Youth Bill: Nay
    Equality Act: Nay
    Industrial Encouragement Act: Nay


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  19. #8139
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicsoda View Post
    I disagree sir. The economy boomed because it was freed from the shackles of socialism. My commitment to economic freedom and private property rights gave the industrialists the confidence to expand their businesses. No more did they have to worry about a nationalization of their land or property as they did under the previous government. I am not opposed to your tax cut proposal but i can not support a tariff increase unless it addresses a specific problem. As our industry is booming I see no need to impose it as it is nothing more than a tax increase on the Chilean people.
    You speak of feared nationalisation attempts, yet I fail to see the great difference between the economic policy of my administration and of yours. Both of our administrations have been Interventionistic. The only evidence you have of forced nationalisation is of a bill which was voted through by the Congreso; by you. That bill was outside of my influence. Your claims of ensuring economic success are without merit, but merely a stroke of good fortune.

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  20. #8140
    I believe that it is the people of Chile and not our Governments that are making the difference in our economic growth. We have magnificent people, in both the entrpeunuers and the workers. The combining of the two in a true partnership is the key to sucess. Not just supporting the capatiliswts and not focusing only on the workers. The current president has tries to do this with some sucess but it is under socialism that this can really work.

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