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Thread: Shadow of the Andes - An Interactive Chilean AAR

  1. #8381
    Captain cavebear3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    I would ask that all candidates join me in submitting platforms before the election itself and during this primary.
    Good point Senor! I am running for the Patriotas ticket, therefore it would be prudent to release my official platform. You will excuse me, for my linguists are all on break and I was very tired when I wrote these...

    Let me first say that I am incredibly blessed to live in a democracy like ours, where all are given ample political equality and freedom. Only a monster would want to take any of those freedoms away.

    Now for the issues

    Foreign Policy- While Chile is generally considered one of the great powers of the world, we cannot rest on our laurels. We must continue to exercise our influence over the lesser South American countries. In order to secure a greater international market, I will also extend our influence into the Caribbean and Central America. Argentina has always been an unnecessary variable within South America... if I am elected president I will do everything in my power to end the instability that Argentina brings to our sphere.

    Military- Chile needs a strong military to inspire pride and national patriotism. A mighty military is not only the only way to protect our nation, it is also a symbol of our power.

    Economy: Laissez-faire will give our capitalists the financial leeway to expand our industrial might. While the far-leftists may oppose this, it is the only way to continue to grow our economy. While a gigantic tax cut may be out of the question (what of our military? And the starving...) I will, if elected, do my best to cut taxes across the board.

    Society: To maintain order, we as a nation must embrace Catholicism as a guiding light. Let this light permeate every facet of our society. Catholicism alone is not enough to enough I fear to turn our nation around. Measures must be put in place so that the youth of our nation cannot be infected by militaristic extremists. A Young Chileans' Society perhaps? YCS for short? It's a working title.....

    These are the major points I would focus on as the next President of Chile.

    ---Caitan Crazzio---
    P. K. Vos, colonial financier and "war hero" in Thunderhawk's Edge of Europe

  2. #8382
    Senor de Escevedo. Your conduct is one unbecoming of a Chilean statesman, never mind a potential president. You admonish your opponents for running against you instead of withdrawing in your favour, even though this is the very foundation of democracy and the reason why we have conventions in the first place. You offer to hand out cabinet positions as if they were offices of sinecure, leaving the most important ministries of state in the hands of amateurs. You even table an amendment whose sole purpose is to badger me into withdrawing from the race for fear of being deprived of command should I lose, after I have devoutly served for over thirty years in the Chilean Army. You ask why I am running in this election - I reply that it is to eliminate the very cronyism and corruption that you espouse.

    Allow me to respectfully outline my platform.

    On the domestic front, I will maintain the economic policies that have produced unprecedented affluence for Chile in these past years. As the Chilean economy continues to blossom, it is natural that this wealth be put to benefit the nation. In national terms, that will entail further industrial development, so that Chile may continue to compete with the powerhouse economies abroad. But I also speak of uplifting the people and reducing poverty. Members of Congreso have proposed the excellent idea of utilising the Church as a means of welfare relief. Here exists an existing network of popular centres, spread across the nation and present in every city, town and hamlet; a perfect means of distributing poverty relief. We would not require a bureaucratic apparatus that would naturally be vulnerable to corruption and malfeasance. Moreover, the Church itself would be responsible for deployment of relief; the State need only provide a helping hand.

    In terms of foreign affairs, I desire utmost to uphold peace in the Republic and defend her from her external enemies. As an experienced military officer, I have witnessed war firsthand; I have witnessed the tragedies that ensue when it is declared frivolously. We should no longer be subjected to the campaigns of conquest of old, where thousands of lives were lost in disastrous efforts to subjugate our neighbours. Not one man hear can forget the disastrous Argentinian War of 1881. But if another nation should infringe upon our territory, violate our national borders, and inflict harm upon the citizens of the Chilean Nation, then we would immediately respond to such barbarous acts of aggression as necessary to protect the Republic. We will be defensive, not aggressive; but we shall also be alert and apprehensive, not passive and docile. The best method of preventing war is to cement stability across South America. We will exert our influence across the remaining rebellious nations, restore order in Argentina and so pave the path of peace for the Republic.

    As for military matters, I will continue to expand the Chilean Navy and affect the restoration of the Chilean Army after its recent mauling at the hands of the rebels. The former has grown from a minor flotilla to a potent fleet. But further extension is required to protect Chile's extensive coastlines, and to preserve the safety of the Republic from the foreign adventurers who have been the bane of our contemporaries in Latin America. Since my first days in Congreso, I have ceaselessly campaigned for a meritocratic distribution of command in the Army. The spate of recent rebellions demonstrates the dangers of political infiltration. If we are to have an army that is both loyal and capable, we must stem such activities. I will ensure that positions of command are appointed evenly and impartially. Vigour and ability shall be the necessary qualities for command, not party allegiance.

    If I am elected President, I will immediately resign my military command. This has been the tradition since the foundation of the First Republic. Senor de Rivera was, after all, a general before he became a minister, at which point he affected his resignation from the army without hesitation. I do not see why we need to legislate for this. I have eternally stood by the Republic in its hours of most acute crisis. If I had wanted to exercise my command to seize power, I would have done so in 1886, when the rewards for disloyalty were much greater. As Senor de Escevedo's outburst demonstrates, the consequence of the Military Command Act would be to intimidate me out of the race for fear of losing my position in the army.

    - General Charles Maximilien, Prince de Conti
    Charles de Conti, President of the Third Republic in SHADOW OF THE ANDES
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    Constantino Telemaco Parassani, Leader of the Praetorians in POWER TO THE PEOPLE

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  3. #8383
    Captain cavebear3000's Avatar
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    Truly, our democratic process is thriving no? I am proud of our nation and, for once, I am optimistic about the future of the Congreso.

    ---Caitan Crazzio---
    P. K. Vos, colonial financier and "war hero" in Thunderhawk's Edge of Europe

  4. #8384
    The Mapuche aplaud the republicanos for not giving into Alejandro's undemocratic ideals
    "Never has so much been surrendered by so many to so few"
    -British opinion of the Italian army in North Africa during WW2

  5. #8385
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    Now, my dear friends of the Congreso, you mistake my offer to endorsers as bribery. What you do not understand is that I can only be endorsed by Republicanos who agree with my platform! I intend, obviously, to field a Republicano government, and furthermore one that can accomplish my goals!

    While I realize that my offer of Government positions to supporters of my platform may have been misconstrued as offers to anyone, my true intent was to promote agreement with my platform. I apologize profusely for what may have been interpreted as a sullying of the process.

    So, let me make it clear: only endorse me if you agree with my views! Then, it is likely that those Republicanos who agree with my platform will receive positions that allow our government to move forward.

    With the sincerest apologies,

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  6. #8386
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    Truthfully, I'm not sure I can back you if you are going to go the route of laissez-faire, Sr. Crazzio. While I by no means favor the madness of communist style central planning, I believe we need some amount of government intervention at the least so that we may keep the capitalists from exploiting the common Chilean man and so that we may keep the common Chilean man from exploiting the capitalists. I would much prefer a system of state capitalism, where the government plays an active role in the economy, however at the very least I will accept a limited amount of interventionism.
    A rebel without a cause.

  7. #8387
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    Now, my dear friends of the Congreso, you mistake my offer to endorsers as bribery. What you do not understand is that I can only be endorsed by Republicanos who agree with my platform! I intend, obviously, to field a Republicano government, and furthermore one that can accomplish my goals!

    While I realize that my offer of Government positions to supporters of my platform may have been misconstrued as offers to anyone, my true intent was to promote agreement with my platform. I apologize profusely for what may have been interpreted as a sullying of the process.

    So, let me make it clear: only endorse me if you agree with my views! Then, it is likely that those Republicanos who agree with my platform will receive positions that allow our government to move forward.

    With the sincerest apologies,

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    With all do respect Senor, it is clear what your intention's were at the time. Emphasizing any republican's who supported you would get government job's in order to win the primary was a cheap political move and a subversion of democracy I might add.

  8. #8388
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syriana View Post
    Senor de Escevedo. You even table an amendment whose sole purpose is to badger me into withdrawing from the race for fear of being deprived of command should I lose, after I have devoutly served for over thirty years in the Chilean Army. You ask why I am running in this election - I reply that it is to eliminate the very cronyism and corruption that you espouse.

    Allow me to respectfully outline my platform.

    On the domestic front, I will maintain the economic policies that have produced unprecedented affluence for Chile in these past years. As the Chilean economy continues to blossom, it is natural that this wealth be put to benefit the nation. In national terms, that will entail further industrial development, so that Chile may continue to compete with the powerhouse economies abroad. But I also speak of uplifting the people and reducing poverty. Members of Congreso have proposed the excellent idea of utilising the Church as a means of welfare relief. Here exists an existing network of popular centres, spread across the nation and present in every city, town and hamlet; a perfect means of distributing poverty relief. We would not require a bureaucratic apparatus that would naturally be vulnerable to corruption and malfeasance. Moreover, the Church itself would be responsible for deployment of relief; the State need only provide a helping hand.

    In terms of foreign affairs, I desire utmost to uphold peace in the Republic and defend her from her external enemies. As an experienced military officer, I have witnessed war firsthand; I have witnessed the tragedies that ensue when it is declared frivolously. We should no longer be subjected to the campaigns of conquest of old, where thousands of lives were lost in disastrous efforts to subjugate our neighbours. Not one man hear can forget the disastrous Argentinian War of 1881. But if another nation should infringe upon our territory, violate our national borders, and inflict harm upon the citizens of the Chilean Nation, then we would immediately respond to such barbarous acts of aggression as necessary to protect the Republic. We will be defensive, not aggressive; but we shall also be alert and apprehensive, not passive and docile. The best method of preventing war is to cement stability across South America. We will exert our influence across the remaining rebellious nations, restore order in Argentina and so pave the path of peace for the Republic.


    If I am elected President, I will immediately resign my military command. This has been the tradition since the foundation of the First Republic. Senor de Rivera was, after all, a general before he became a minister, at which point he affected his resignation from the army without hesitation. I do not see why we need to legislate for this. I have eternally stood by the Republic in its hours of most acute crisis. If I had wanted to exercise my command to seize power, I would have done so in 1886, when the rewards for disloyalty were much greater. As Senor de Escevedo's outburst demonstrates, the consequence of the Military Command Act would be to intimidate me out of the race for fear of losing my position in the army.

    - General Charles Maximilien, Prince de Conti
    Do me the honor, General, of spelling my name correctly.

    I must inform you that many of your views are more in line with the FNT. I feared this, which is why I called for a platform display. You call for peace when we could unify Argentina, and you propose a welfare state that utilizes the Catholic church to give away money!

    This cannot be a Republicano! I urge you, sir, to reconsider your platform or withdraw.

    Furthermore, it is not befitting of a candidate to not understand the process of legislation. Yes, I agree, the bill was meant to badger military men out of the election. I did not create the bill, and in fact amended it to make it easier for honorable military men such as yourself to return to your commands post haste!

    I have shown you nothing but respect, as correlates with my stance on the military. I am afraid that because of your political impotency and overall insolence, however, that we shall not emerge from this race as friends. I only hope that you would support an Escovedo presidency, as I will wholeheartedly should you achieve nomination.

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  9. #8389
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeroyJenkins View Post
    With all do respect Senor, it is clear what your intention's were at the time. Emphasizing any republican's who supported you would get government job's in order to win the primary was a cheap political move and a subversion of democracy I might add.
    It is not befitting of a disenfranchised man without a vote to weigh in on my intentions. It would seem that you yourself have subverted democracy in the past...

    I must continue to assert that I only want and have only ever wanted the support of Republicanos who fully support my platform over the others.
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  10. #8390
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    It is not befitting of a disenfranchised man without a vote to weigh in on my intentions. It would seem that you yourself have subverted democracy in the past...

    I must continue to assert that I only want and have only ever wanted the support of Republicanos who fully support my platform over the others.
    What do you mean disenfranchised? I may not have the same political sway as some of you other politicians, at least not enough to impact the election, but I don't understand your phrasing.
    Oh please your lie's are not fooling anyone Senator.

  11. #8391
    Quote Originally Posted by Seek75 View Post
    Truthfully, I'm not sure I can back you if you are going to go the route of laissez-faire, Sr. Crazzio. While I by no means favor the madness of communist style central planning, I believe we need some amount of government intervention at the least so that we may keep the capitalists from exploiting the common Chilean man and so that we may keep the common Chilean man from exploiting the capitalists. I would much prefer a system of state capitalism, where the government plays an active role in the economy, however at the very least I will accept a limited amount of interventionism.
    Although I will not participate in this election I must agree. We need strong government invervention lest the needs of the country become outweighed by the need's of business.

  12. #8392
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeroyJenkins View Post
    What do you mean disenfranchised? I may not have the same political sway as some of you other politicians, at least not enough to impact the election, but I don't understand your phrasing.
    Oh please your lie's are not fooling anyone Senator.
    Honorable Senor,

    I feel that we both must step back and look at the petty argument we have engaged in. You and I are both patriotic Chileans, and now is the time to unite instead of divide.

    I must mend fences with all of you in the Republicano party.

    I extend an message of gratitude for your National pride, and the same is for all of the Republicanos.

    We pride ourselves in this country on clean and respectful campaigns, and we have all made mistakes in this one. This is including and especially myself. So, I would ask for all of your forgiveness.

    I truly hope that some of you can see the virtue behind my platform so that we as a party can construct a strong Government to lead us into the future!

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  13. #8393
    Senor
    You have used bribery to help your political career
    You have sold off public position's as if they were product's to be bought and sold
    And now you talk about virtue and respect?
    You have every right to run for president but know that I doubt any man will support you and I certainly won't.

  14. #8394
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    I am man enough to admit the mistakes that I have certainly made.

    While it is unfortunate that you choose to lie, you have no effect on the elections as a traitorous fraud yourself.

    I hope that the others of the Republicano party will accept my overture of peace and unification, because it is genuine.

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  15. #8395
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCleric View Post
    I am man enough to admit the mistakes that I have certainly made.

    While it is unfortunate that you choose to lie, you have no effect on the elections as a traitorous fraud yourself.

    I hope that the others of the Republicano party will accept my overture of peace and unification, because it is genuine.

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    Excuse me?! You soldout the will of the people so you could have a chance at living in La Moneda and you call me a traitor! You are a traitor to the republic and democracy good day to you sir!
    -Colonel Francisco Salazar

  16. #8396
    First do me the honour of courtesy, Senor.

    It is curious to me that a man who professes a desire to unite Chile under Catholicism has rejected the highest Christian principle of all - charity. You say such sentiment smacks of the FNT, yet it was the honourable Archbishop himself who first suggested that the Church be utilised as a means of poverty relief. This is not 'throwing money away'; this is investing in the nation. An impoverished man produces nothing and provides nothing. He is a drain on his family, and a strain on the nation. Once uplifted out of poverty, however, he becomes a productive cell of society, purchasing goods and services and labouring in our national industries. The relief of poverty will augment our economy. It will bolster the markets and utilise our labour force to its fullest capacity. The relief of poverty is not simply a matter of morality - it is a matter of common sense and economic principle.

    Your ouverture of peace and unification is a sham. This convention was united and peaceful, until you chose to slander your opponents, offer cabinet concessions as electoral brides and then damn your detractors as insolent false Republicanos. You have neither the needs of the people nor the party at your heart; your sole concern is the achievement of personal power. These are not the qualities of a president - and these are certainly not the qualities of a Republicano.

    - General Charles Maximilien, Prince de Conti
    Charles de Conti, President of the Third Republic in SHADOW OF THE ANDES
    Xavier-Pierre Florian Thaddée, Chief of the Defence Staff in EDGE OF EUROPE
    Constantino Telemaco Parassani, Leader of the Praetorians in POWER TO THE PEOPLE

    Lead the Revolution to glory or ruin or merely try and survive
    Destiny of the Republic - A Forum Game

  17. #8397
    Quote Originally Posted by Syriana View Post
    First do me the honour of courtesy, Senor.

    It is curious to me that a man who professes a desire to unite Chile under Catholicism has rejected the highest Christian principle of all - charity. You say such sentiment smacks of the FNT, yet it was the honourable Archbishop himself who first suggested that the Church be utilised as a means of poverty relief. This is not 'throwing money away'; this is investing in the nation. An impoverished man produces nothing and provides nothing. He is a drain on his family, and a strain on the nation. Once uplifted out of poverty, however, he becomes a productive cell of society, purchasing goods and services and labouring in our national industries. The relief of poverty will augment our economy. It will bolster the markets and utilise our labour force to its fullest capacity. The relief of poverty is not simply a matter of morality - it is a matter of common sense and economic principle.

    Your ouverture of peace and unification is a sham. This convention was united and peaceful, until you chose to slander your opponents, offer cabinet concessions as electoral brides and then damn your detractors as insolent false Republicanos. You have neither the needs of the people nor the party at your heart; your sole concern is the achievement of personal power. These are not the qualities of a president - and these are certainly not the qualities of a Republicano.


    - General Charles Maximilien, Prince de Conti
    Anyway to get this conversation back on track, General Maximielien, we have often clashed over how to deal with militia's how would you deal with them in the future if you are elected president?

  18. #8398
    So here's how things stand. I have a nasty feeling I've missed a Comunista candidate for President. That notwithstanding, the Republicano field is full and the Patriotas can accommodate one more, and the FNT have only one candidate. The Comunistas have their four statements but no candidates. The Liberales are looking pretty dead in the water.

    If I've missed your ballot or statement, PM me about it.

    Presidential Candidates:

    Liberales:

    Republicanos:
    Francisco de Santa Rosa ((Riccardo93))
    Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo ((OldCleric))
    Charles Maximilien de Conti ((Syriana))

    Patriotas:
    Caitan Crazzio ((cavebear3000))
    Ernesto Fernando Fuentes ((Maxwell500))

    FNT:
    Sérgio Gogołów ((Dyranum))

    Comunistas:

    Chief of Staff Candidates:
    Rios ((rudders10))
    Sebastian Hidalgo ((MastahCheef117))
    Juan De Porto ((zagoroth))
    Jesus Gonzales ((yourworstnightm))
    Christiano Ferarri ((King50000))

    Agitators
    Ferran Martí ((blindgoose))
    Martin Schmidt ((lordvagrant))

    ((As a note, agitators are only criminals insofar as that they advocate the forcible implementation of their policies, and they are always disenfranchised. And no, you can't agitate while otherwise disenfranchised.))

    Parties:
    Patriotas: 5
    Republicanos: 4
    Liberales:
    FNT: 5
    Comunistas: 4

    National Defense Authorization Act:
    Yes: 6
    No: 3
    Abstain: 3

    Military Industrial Complex:
    Yes: 5
    No: 8
    Abstain: 1

    Dio Guerrero:
    Guilty: 6
    Not Guilty: 5
    Abstain: 2

    Polls close tomorrow morning.
    Last edited by ThunderHawk3; 18-02-2012 at 19:30.
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  19. #8399
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    You are correct to a point, General Maximilien.

    Charity is a major principle of the Catholic church, and I unlike you hold moralist views that would seek to unite church and state. I, too, have made mistakes in the past days and weeks, and I once again and for the third time apologize for my errant remarks.

    I have admitted my mistakes, but you are no Republicano. You would do well to represent yourself as the independent you are. You portray the church as an outlet for Government funding. The Church sees itself as a charitable organization, as it should. We would obviously fund the state church, but it would be up to the church to appropriate funds. The Government should not pay for Chile's lower classes, but spur them on their way to self-sufficiency.

    My way of uplifting the few impoverished in Chile is lowering taxes on every strata, as I have repeatedly stated. You propose financially equalizing forcibly the lower classes, with no work on their part! This is bordering on Communism, and cannot be accepted in this party! Obviously you subscribe to a different economic school of thought; all stratas must be affected so that inequality can be bridged through hard work, and not mere charity that teaches nothing!

    And concerning your assertion that the convention was unified; that is foolish to the point of stupidity. Not a single vote has been cast in our primary; rather, inexperienced individuals like you who have the nerve to call their liberal policies Republicano have declared their intention to race.

    I have displayed my truly conservative platform a number of times, and you have shown us all your hastily crafted and incomplete liberal platform once. You are the sole source of slander even after I have apologized for a misconstrued and ill-crafted statement multiple times, and because of this your request for courtesy from me is laughable at best. I knew instantaneously that you would make a mockery of the primaries, and that you have done.

    I would also recommend that you leave the race now, lest it should have to become decided on technicalities likened to whether a French "Prince de Conti" can truly become president of Chile whilst he holds a foreign noble title.

    Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

  20. #8400
    Second Lieutenant OldCleric's Avatar
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    We must have votes in our primaries, no matter who they are for.

    Please, Republicano constituents, do not abdicate your voice in who represents you! Vote now for the candidate in which you vest interest.

    Republicano Presidential Candidate and Senator Alejandro Ruiz de Escovedo
    "Après moi, le déluge"

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