Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 13 - Don't Mess with the Pope!

**Gwyn ap Nud** · 29-09-2011 23:38

I feel the message system used in DW and V2 is the way to go.

**Tegus** · 29-09-2011 23:41

Originally Posted by vertinox

Nice. Will the AI generally leave the Pope alone or will it try to take the Pope's territories just like any other AI country?

Currently the AI will try not to eliminate the Pope(well, catholic AI:s at least), but if the Pope expands, his territory is treated just like everyone else's.

**Bob Ilyani** · 29-09-2011 23:45

Good looking DD, as always. Getting excited!

**pevergreen** · 29-09-2011 23:58

Looks pope-tacular.

Geddit?

**ramblymanguthri** · 30-09-2011 00:24

I kinda wish to know about the Muslim movement as well.. Man, what I would give for an AAR of this game

It's really nice to hear vassals received more war-declaring powers. Also that the Pope kicks ass for the Lord.
How did you end up rebalancing him, though? Less money, or limited mercenary-hiring capacity? Something else?

**InboxMadness** · 30-09-2011 01:51

please consider making the following DDs

1) Crusades

2) Technology

3) Byzantium

4) Mongols

5) Muslims

thank you

**Orinsul** · 30-09-2011 05:00

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud

I feel the message system used in DW and V2 is the way to go.

well its the best way to do it, the new system and the old side by side instead of sengoku's just the new with nothing to fill the void left by it lacking the old.

**John Lackland** · 30-09-2011 05:35

Is there a way you can adjust Mathilda so she doesn't always attack the Pope? This is important for two reasons. One, shes important to history as a thorn in the HRE's side and two, she was rather fervantly supportive of the Papacy's claims. I'm wondering if she could be be made weary to attack the Papacy if she has traits and/or relations that prevent her or severely discourage from such actions?

Either way, it'd be a shame to see her reduced to virtually nothing, leaving one of the more important characters of the period forgotten in most games.

Regards,

The Great

**Tambourmajor** · 30-09-2011 06:24

Originally Posted by John Lackland

Is there a way you can adjust Mathilda so she doesn't always attack the Pope? This is important for two reasons. One, shes important to history as a thorn in the HRE's side and two, she was rather fervantly supportive of the Papacy's claims. I'm wondering if she could be be made weary to attack the Papacy if she has traits and/or relations that prevent her or severely discourage from such actions Pope?

Either way, it'd be a shame to see her reduced to virtually nothing, leaving one of the more important characters of the period forgotten in most games.

Regards,

The Great

The simplest way would probably be to make her a Papal ally at the start of the game, thus preventing her from going after the Pope every single time.

**Joel M Bridge** · 30-09-2011 06:50

Willl Holy Roman Emperor be crown by the pope, before he can take on the Emperorship?
Two will the pope make Anitkings?

**Ruwaard** · 30-09-2011 10:42

Originally Posted by Doomdark

Claims are one way, but if you are a duke, you get to declare war on those who hold de jure counties in your duchy as well. There are other casus bellis as well.

Regarding vassals being able to declare war on independent rulers; will their liege not get involved, not even when an independent ruler starts a counter-invasion of his own? I assume that a liege might be inclined to protect the de jure borders of his kingdom, but refuse to support his vassals in their foreign ventures. For example Philip I of France won't support duke William of Normandy in his conquest of Anglo-Saxon England, but Philip would probably support his vassal the duke of Normandy to protect him from an Anglo-Saxon counter invasion. In which situation the liege could broker a mainly status quo ante bellum peace treaty (restores the pre war situation), however the aggressor could still be forced to pay reparations and give up claims.

**Orinsul** · 30-09-2011 10:55

Originally Posted by Ruwaard

Regarding vassals being able to declare war on independent rulers; will their liege not get involved, not even when an independent ruler starts a counter-invasion of his own? I assume that a liege might be inclined to protect the de jure borders of his kingdom, but refuse to support his vassals in their foreign ventures. For example Philip I of France won't support duke William of Normandie in his conquest of Anglo-Saxon England, but Philip would probably support his vassal the duke of Normandie to protect him from an Anglo-Saon counter invasion. In which situation the liege could broker a mainly status quo ante bellum peace treaty (restores the pre war situation), however the aggressor could still be forced to pay reparations and give up claims.

there are no counter invasions, only aggressors can win anything in a war. defenders fight for a white peace, atleast thats how it sounds anyway

**Alastor** · 30-09-2011 11:03

Originally Posted by Orinsul

there are no counter invasions, only aggressors can win anything in a war. defenders fight for a white peace, atleast thats how it sounds anyway

If thats how it is then thats pretty stupid, I can understand being unable to grab land, the defender might not even have a claim to the aggressors titles anyway, but not even some monetary reparations? Prisoners? A marriage? Sth? So the defender would have to sign a white peace after trouncing his opponent and then wait for the truce to end before he declares on him again, this time being the attacker, to reduce him?

**Orinsul** · 30-09-2011 11:06

youd have to read the DD on it, but from what i remember of it i think thats how its going to be. but really who knows, apart from devs and better testers and generally theyre not allowed to say

**Tyson_48** · 30-09-2011 12:04

Originally Posted by Orinsul

youd have to read the DD on it, but from what i remember of it i think thats how its going to be. but really who knows, apart from devs and better testers and generally theyre not allowed to say

In which DD did they mentioned something like that?
I have read them all and can only remember the thing about the claim.
But that you as defender are reduced to a white peace...

**gronank** · 30-09-2011 12:27

I think you can force the attacker to give up his claim. At least, that would make sense.

**tajerio** · 30-09-2011 12:35

Originally Posted by gronank

I think you can force the attacker to give up his claim. At least, that would make sense.

That's what the dev diary on warfare says. I'd imagine also that the defender could demand reparations or hostages or other non-territorial prizes--he just won't be able to enforce his own territorial claims.

**Doomdark** · 30-09-2011 13:22

Originally Posted by tajerio

That's what the dev diary on warfare says. I'd imagine also that the defender could demand reparations or hostages or other non-territorial prizes--he just won't be able to enforce his own territorial claims.

That's pretty much how it works, yes.

**Alastor** · 30-09-2011 13:35

Originally Posted by Doomdark

That's pretty much how it works, yes.

Can you also demand a marriage as a peace term?

**Tyson_48** · 30-09-2011 13:35

Originally Posted by Doomdark

That's pretty much how it works, yes.

Sounds cool, thanks.

Can you give us some more details on the possibilities?
Perhaps if you get attacked by two allied counties, if you win, can you force them to dissolve their alliance?
How do you prevent things like in EU, when you force someone to cancel treaties only to read a bit later that they renewed all of them?

Will you be able to choose a hostage in relation to war score?
And the last one ;-)
Is it possible to dissolve a forced marriage in a further war?

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