• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.
To Admiral Baltasar:

I approve. I assume that we control the skies above China and our H.Ftrs should suffice to deal with any remaining Chinese pilots, if there are any left.
 
Even if they are not totally defeated, our heavy fighters and CAGs should be more than a match for whatever the Chinese can field. The presence of so many single engine aircraft capable of dogfighting should also pave the way for our larger planes.
 
To General Surt:

I see two reasons, General Surt; China to the west and U.S.R.R. to the north, to point out only our most immediate concerns. I think that we all agree that in case of the expected attack from the U.S.R.R. we won't counter-attack by Siberia proper but through Mongolia, thus making our future mountain divisions even more useful in stalling the Red Army in North Korea. Everywhere in uplands and mountains of the world our specialists can be of use. I agree that cost of mountain divisions can seem too much, but I see it quite low. Why? Because if we manage to break the Chinese then mountain divisions can guard Korea and this move will free all our forces entangled in war in China. With lesser but more specialized force we avoid supply problems, allowing us to use more air support. With more air support we can focus on either breaking through the enemy lines or destroying his industry, also relieved troops can be used elsewhere.

I'll have to trust the wisdom of our Heavenly Sovereign.

I would like to remind General Holy that Mongolia is mostly desert with very low infrastructure, where it is passable the so called roads are mostly just areas with less stones than the none passable areas, no offensive can be sustained there. The roads are even worse than in China.
Any attack that will really hurt the Soviets will have to be through XinJiang where there is easy access to 100's of Soviet resources, these can also readily be used by our factories to solve the resource problem. So I don't agree on the attack path either.

Someone wrote earlier that mountain units where better because it used less supplies, in fact predictions are they will use double the amount of infantry, 0.67 vs. 0.33. ((this is different than in normal HOI3?))
Their only regular advantage is that they are slightly tougher than the normal infantry by 0.5.
They would cost roughly 2.5 times as many IC-days as normal infantry and 2.5 times the officers.
So the question is do their mountain advantage make up for them being twice the expense?

They would have to be twice the effective as infantry in mountains just to make up for the extra cost. And when they further are not used in mountains they are at best as good and at worst an expensive replacement.

Some persons have also added that all special units lose their advantages if any support brigade are added making them less useful against enemy tanks.
 
Even if they are not totally defeated, our heavy fighters and CAGs should be more than a match for whatever the Chinese can field. The presence of so many single engine aircraft capable of dogfighting should also pave the way for our larger planes.

If you are sure that the strike will come at Pearl Harbour then it would be good to have the interceptors there, but I don't think it will be wise to send more than 3 fighters total to the pacific right now.

We will need all the Light bomber and H.Ftrs to dislodge the Chinese from Chungking.

Edit: With the H.Ftrs mostly flying as bombers.
 
Gen Surt, the light fighters are the ones I was asking for. As I said, they'll not be of much use in China anyway and at the same time you'll recieve what we can spare.
 
Someone wrote earlier that mountain units where better because it used less supplies, in fact predictions are they will use double the amount of infantry, 0.67 vs. 0.33. ((this is different than in normal HOI3?))
*Again - where do you take these numbers from? Please, people, either be precise or don't mention numbers at all. Here is a shocker - 3xMTN div has exactly the same supply consumption as 3xINF div - 2,01.
 
To General Surt:

I thought that you, General, wanted to improve supply connection towards Mongolia yourself, thus making Mongolia an excellent place to attack the Soviets from. Much depends on the eventual outcome of our war in China, so these are the plans for the future. I'd like to point out, however, that mountain divisions won't be used on the offensive, rather on the deffensive. While they cost much in terms of IC, manpower and officers they'll be able to fight more effectively in the mountains, with fewer numbers than regular troops due to their bonuses. We can risk sending more regular units into China, but that's it - a risk, a risk I am not sure we can take as it will hamper our offensive, making both troops and planes undersupplied. Some of our units report supply problems even as we speak.
 
*Again - where do you take these numbers from? Please, people, either be precise or don't mention numbers at all. Here is a shocker - 3xMTN div has exactly the same supply consumption as 3xINF div - 2,01.

Hmm, that is so strange, I have the numbers from my current soviet game, late '41 HPP 2.03

Edit: I added the numbers because you complained of unsupported claims, we can make it a big numbers feast with lots of percent's, statistics etc. but it will be a lot of number crunching with unknown modifiers.
 
Last edited:
Influence Levels

Air assets

IJA

9 H-FTRs
3 LBs

IJN
11 CAGs
1 NAV
1 MB

Common
4 L-FTRs
2 HBs
1 TRAN

One new CAG and one new HFTR were formed.

IJN Land Troops

1 SNLF Corps - 5 MAR divisions (15 brigades)
25 GAR divs

IJA Reserve

We have 3 infantry divisions in reserve. The IJN took full control over the Philippines, so most of the Army GARs have been transferred to China, but 2 are still stationed in Japan.

Other
We lost 3 convoys and 2 convoy escorts. Our subs managed to sink 3 US convoys. Thanks to our victories, the US submarine threat has been reduced, but since we control many new islands now and started trading with Peru, Argentina and Mexico, our supply and trade lines require many more convoys.

All important Chinese airfields are now garrisoned and new Kempeitai formations were dispatched to resource-rich areas (this helped a bit).
 
Chapter Four, Part Six: Sino-Japanese War / Japanese-American War
Jan 1942 - Apr 1942

Previously in the Influence Wars...

Almost all American Pacific possessions were conquered, but a counterstrike conducted by Admiral Nimitz cost the Japanese several ships. The Chinese started a major counter-offensive in Southern China...

And now, the conclusion...


War in China

Chinese Breakthrough in Southern China






The Chinese counter-attack worried the Imperial General Headquarters, but nobody expected that the enemy would be so successful. As late as February the frontline looked stable, but in March the Chinese managed to create a sizeable breakthrough north of Gullin. We had no reserve in the area, which meant that the enemy advanced more or less unopposed. Changde and Changsha were threatened, but fortunately, we managed to bring reinforcements in time.

The frontline did not collapse completely only because of General Tojo's intervention, as he personally transferred 3 corps from other areas to the South. The Canton HQ now has a total of 90 divisions at its disposal, but not every division is in battle-ready condition.

Additionally, one of our CTFs has been supporting the troops fighting in Southern China for over a month. Although the sight of Japanese bombers was a morale boost for our exhausted soldiers, the effect was largely diluted by the fact that the Chinese were so successful.

The Administration believes that if Gullin falls, the Guangxi Clique will collapse.


Northern Stalemate





The situation in the North remains static. Both sides are focusing on the fighting that is taking place in Southern China and it is unlikely that the northern front will see much action in the near future.


Overview






Despite the fact that we have been bombing the Chinese factories for months (or even years in some cases), our spies report that our enemies have actually managed to increase their military production recently. The Administration believes that this was caused by several factors. Firstly, our strategic bombers are not incredibly efficient even during daylight operations. While the initial bombardments can be destructive, the enemy can repair the damage relatively quickly as soon as our bombers start attacking other targets and we do not have enough aircraft to attack many targets at once. Secondly, it is believed that our enemies managed to get their resource situation under control and this allowed them to mobilise their economies further. Presumably the Chinese communists are trading with the Soviet Union and the Chinese nationalists - with the Commonwealth. Thirdly, both the nationalists and the communists managed to conquer some land, which probably increased their potential.


The Pacific Theatre


Conquest of the Christmas Island and the Phoenix Island


The remaining US possessions in the eastern part of the Pacific Ocean have been conquered relatively easy. The US Navy made no attempt at protecting them. However, the real strategic gain is minimal. In fact, some believe that the Americans actually allowed us to conquer these islands easily, because our "gains" can potentially do us more harm than good by over-stretching our supply lines and forcing us to station troops in relatively unimportant places.


Naval and Air Clashes





Just several days after the Phoenix Island was conquered, our aircraft spotted several American ships near Hawaii. It was believed that it was a patrol group, since all spotted ships were rather small. Surprisingly, when the 3rd Battlefleet encountered the enemy, it turned out that this "patrol group" was, in fact, a massive American carrier task force. Our pilots were fooled by the small size of the US carriers, but there were 10 (this is not a mistake: TEN) of them. A fierce battle ensued, but it was inconclusive. However, since many of our ships have received heavy damage, the fleet was forced to withdraw to Honolulu.

The enemy was relentless and soon enough, both sides clashed again. This time we managed to bring other battlefleets to the area. The enemy did not have enough screening ships to protect all his carriers properly and suffered as a result of this mistake. IJN Kaga's torpedo bombers passed the AA fire of American destroyers and delivered the fatal blow to one of the US carriers.

The last naval engagement took place near the Johnston Island. The Japanese forces had to spread over a large area and only one of the battlefleets could take part in the battle. Despite the fact that several Japanese ships were damaged and the light cruiser IJN Kitikama was almost sunk, it was the enemy who suffered ship losses. When IJN Yamashiro closed in to the US carrier, it stood no chance against Yamashiro's guns.





Unfortunately, our ships were either too damaged to pursue the enemy or failed to find his task force. However, several air battles took place near Hawaii when the Americans were returning back to the safe heaven of ports on the US West Coast and we managed to destroy some of the enemy's planes, although not without losses of our own.

Ship status and military intelligence



*Status of Japanese ships as of 3rd of April 1942





Our submarines have recently begun the blockade of the US West Coast. Since gathering intelligence about enemy's strength is as much important as sinking American convoys, they have orders to keep a low profile. We received worrying news in March - one of our submarines spotted 17 US carriers docked at one of the American ports. Since most of these vessels were small and some of them were damaged, it is likely that this number includes the carriers that our fleets have previously encountered. It seems that despite their grave losses, the US Navy has more carriers than the Imperial Japanese Navy.

The Administration believes that most of these light carriers were ordered in late 1940 andwere originally intended to protect the US supply lines and provide air cover for American battleships. However, after suffering massive ship losses, the Americans were forced to use these vessels as the primary capital ships of the US Navy.


Other matters


War in Europe and North African Theatre





On 23rd of January 1942, the Kingdom of Spain formally announced that it would support Germany and Italy in their war against the Soviet Union and the Commonwealth. This was a surprising development, because Spain was a country which did not openly express any intention of joining the struggle against the communists and the imperialists. However, the prospect of the Soviet victory in Europe was probably too much to bear for Franco's right-winged state.

Thanks to the increasing influence of the Japanese intelligence, the government of Japan was one of the few institutions in the world which knew beforehand that Spain would join the Axis.





The situation in North Africa is clearly very dynamic. By February the forces of the Commonwealth conquered most of Libya and encircled Tripoli. It looked like their victory was only a matter of time. However, in a daring and surprising move, the Italians managed to encircle several Allied divisions and pushed the enemy back from the suburbs of Tripoli in March. Nobody, not even the Germans, believed that the Italians were capable of conducting a manoeuvre like that.





In Europe, the frontline remained mostly static, with the exception of southern Ukraine. The Axis forces managed to push the Soviets back and took the Sevastopol fortress. It remains unclear whether they will be able to hold it, but the Eastern Front in Europe has not seen developments like that in months.


Japanese Economy




*Ignore the second H-FTR wing, it was a mistake on my part.


Several new infantry divisions and 2 new air wings (one fighter wing and one CAG) have formed recently. Most importantly, however, construction of 2 new ships, a light cruiser and a carrier, has been finished. It is expected that four additional ships will be constructed during 1942, including a battlecruiser. After that, new orders for shipyards will probably include 2 modern battleships.

The question of the potential development and formation of several mountain divisions was a central issue during the last meeting of the Imperial General Headquarters. Ultimately the issue had to be resolved by General Tojo. He did not believe that new mountain infantry formations could be formed quickly enough in order to severely affect the outcome of war in China, but saw potential in them nevertheless. When properly trained, these divisions could increase the array of strategic options at the Army's disposal, especially in supply-constrained areas, which are numerous in Asia. Thanks to the now high efficiency of the Japanese intelligence, part of the budget that had been reserved for funding of the actions of our spies could be shifted to the mountain infantry development project.





Resource shortages continue to plague the Japanese industry. It is only because of our sizeable stockpiles of strategic materials that we do not have to make severe cutbacks in military production. Most of the resources are being shipped from areas outside of Japan itself, so the defence of our trade lines is pivotal to the war effort. Fortunately, thanks to our successes in the Pacific Theatre, the American submarine threat has been greatly reduced.


Cooperation between the Empire of Japan and the Axis powers





The Axis powers were willing to share the information about confirmed ship losses with us, for a price. We had to supply them with 6k supply and 2k money units. The Administration analysed various documents we received and compiled the list that is visible above.
 
To Imperial General HQ,
The defeat on the Guangxi front is perplexing, due to lack of information from the battles we can't see what is wrong.

We would need to get some exact statistics from the battles, from one of each of the Chinese factions including the Guangxi division and from one of ours ((mouse over of a combat with each)).

The defeat can have many reasons, that we never regain org, that Guangxi only builds militia, that the Guangxi supply net has broken down etc. etc. etc.
 
Gentlemen,

China proves to be a much more formidable opponent than the west. We thought that the Chinese had been all but beaten and now we might loose our ally to their onslaught. We will need to reconsider what we can do to change this situation. All of us.

Politics
The Axis powers didn't really achieve much in their naval struggle with the Allies. However, we should send out naval patrols to have a look at the Russian ports in the Pacific, may be they emptied their ports and send their ships to Europe already.

Personally, I am surprised that Italy managed to pull of a small offensive in North Africa. It remains to be seen if it will result in anything substantial, though. As it is, the Italians might get their men starved into submission, thanks to the lack of results against the Allied navies.

Having taken Sevastopol is no small feat, especially for the Romanians. It is the most important Russian harbor in the Black Sea and it seems that the Italians were waiting outside to pick off the Russian ships fleeing the port. We'll see whether or not the Russians will be able to take the Crimean Peninsular back.

The USA have surprised us with an unexpected large number of their new light carriers. It seems they were rushed into service as they didn't have the time to give them names, unless the reports have been wrong. We now know where a large part of their fleet is and what they have at their disposal.

Pacific theatre
We have successfully repelled another USN assault on our positions. Considering what we and the enemy has available, I do not doubt that we will continue to be able to hold what we have. Thus the orders remain: Position three fleets at Hawaii and have them engage targets of opportunity. Have the submarines scour the sea for enemy traders and gather intelligence about US fleet movements.

Fleet dispostion:
1st fleet: (3x BB, 2x CA, 3x DD)
- IJN Fuso (flagship)
- IJN Hyuga
- IJN Yamashiro
- IJN Takao
- IJN Kinugasa
- 23. Kuchikusentai
- 24. Kuchikusentai
- 25. Kuchikusentai

2nd fleet: (3x BB, 2x CA, 3x DD)
- IJN Nagato (flagship)
- IJN Mutsu
- IJN Ise
- IJN Nachi
- IJN Mogami
- 10. Kuchikusentai
- 11. Kuchikusentai
- 21. Kuchikusentai

3rd fleet: (1x BB, 1x BC, 4x CA, 3x DD)
- IJN Yamato (flagship)
- IJN Ibuki
- IJN Asama
- IJN Ashigara
- IJN Furutaka
- IJN Maya
- 12. Kuchikusentai
- 13. Kuchikusentai
- 15. Kuchikusentai

5th fleet: (1x CV, 1x CVL, 2x CL, 4x DD)
- IJN Soryu (flagship)
- IJN Hosho
- IJN Katori
- IJN Oi
- 6. Kuchikusentai
- 7. Kuchikusentai
- 8. Kuchikusentai
- 9. Kuchikusentai

6th fleet: (3x CVL, 2x CL, 4x DD)
- IJN Ryujo (flagship)
- IJN Shoho
- IJN Zuiho
- IJN Tatsuta
- IJN Tenryu
- 2. Kuchikusentai
- 3. Kuchikusentai
- 4. Kuchikusentai
- 5. Kuchikusentai

1st and 2nd fleet will form the backbone of the attacking fleets. 5th and 6th will provide air cover, 3rd will engage retreating enemies when possible and should act as a flanking force. 6th fleet does have many ships capable of anti submarine duty, so this unit should try to engage enemy subs when possible, with 3rd fleet acting as immediate support which in turn will be shadowed by 1st, 2nd and 5th fleets. The point is that if the enemy should think that 6th fleet is on their own, he'll find them being in sufficient company to blow everything he has to pieces.

The light fighters and nav bombers will remain at Hawaii, supporting the fleets where they can.


China
We have thought about China many days and argument roamed within my offices back and forth. It was no easy decision, but we think the situation at hand demands immediate action.

Force disposition:

4th fleet: 1x CV, 2x CVL, 2x CA, 2x CL, 3x DD
- IJN Soryu (flagship)
- IJN Hosho
- IJN Ryujo
- IJN Aoba
- IJN Mikuma
- IJN Abukuma
- IJN Isuzu
- 16. Kuchikusentai
- 18. Kuchikusentai
- 19. Kuchikusentai

4th fleet will continue to support operations in China with their CAGs, preferably from the carriers, from land bases if neccessary and if the supply network can handle them.

One (1) wing of medium bombers. Should be ceded to army command for the duration of the hostilies in China.

Two (2) heavy bomber wings. They already were engaged in China and should be ceded to army command.

One (1) transportation wing. If the army can find a use for them, that is. Should be ceded to army command.

Three (3) SNLF divisions. Those are to be put under army command to bolster the forces, preferably in southern China.


We think that this is all we can offer the army right now. However, more will come.

We suggest to shift air attacks from targetting industrial sites to supply dumps. The enemy must have a massive amount of supplies to mount such an offensive, we need to target this to stop them in their tracks.


Production
The situation has developed quite different from what we thought initially. The USA have lost most of their ships and while they will rebuild and come back in force, China is the more immediate problem for us. If we can't conquer it, everything achieved in the Pacific will be for naught. Therefore, we suggest to discontinue capital ship production once the IJN Kurama (BC) is finished (July 26th '42). We should keep 3 to 4 light cruisers under construction at all times to strengthen our fleets, but capital ships will be too costly to produce and we didn't lose any battleships so far. With Hawaii in our hands, we have the strongest imaginable position vis a vis the USA and we're reinforcing it with men and equipment on a continuous basis. Radar equipment and coastal fortifications need to be enhanced still, but we are getting there.

Production requirements:
- 3 to 4 light cruisers
- escorts and convoys to have a sufficient reserve
- radar equipment for the afore mentioned locations
- coastal fortification for Hawaii
- 2 continuous CAG productions so we are able to rotate depleted wings out for fresh ones.

My office thinks that this will be neccessary and that we simply can not afford more battleships right now. We assume that this change of production will not free up substantial assets for the army, but will at least not influence their budget in a negative way. Additionally, most of the IJN garrison forces will finish training shortly, making room for army orders.

Research
Battleship Engine Design should be finalized, it's almost finished anyways.
Capital ship doctrines benefitting BBs, BCs and CLs need to be continued when possible.
Single engine aircraft techniques and doctrines are supported by my office as well.
My office also supports putting more emphasis on army specific research, ie doctrines which would mean immediate benefit.
 
General Surt, there is nothing special about those battles. The supply situation is quite stable in the South - our troops mostly suffer from supply shortages only during retreats, which is normal. As long as the Guangxi Clique exists, the supply lines are also quite short and we do not have to deal with partisans disrupting the supply lines in the region. The information about the number and quality of the Guangxi Clique's troops is available in the "Other matters" section. The enemy forces are weaker than ours, but the Chinese have many reserves in the region (both irregulars and standard infantry divisions) and thanks to this they can exploit any breakthrough quickly. Moreover, many of our divisions cannot take part in crucial battles because they need time for reorganisation, which was mentioned in the report.
 
Memorandum:
It is concerning that the Chinese now have equip their forces as modern infantry. It is likely that they are received passive aid from somewhere. Having said that a Guangxi defeat may prove a mixed blessing as if we don't have to reinstate Zongren when we retake Guangxi, then we could annex all of China. His armies may defect to us directly.

Although I have a small fear, that if Guangxi does fall, the allied chinese millitary there might decide to betray us and side with the nationalists instead. Rather than risk this coup happening I think we need to make sure Guillen doesn't fall.

We are loosing good defensive ground, and the Chinese are equal, if not greater in equipment strenght. I might be somewhat inclined to put our naval research teams into use at developing some form of infantry weapons for the army.

Adm.Baltersar; might I suggest that for the IC not invested in naval craft, we suggest that the army use our knowledge in construction and battlefield defence tactics to recruit engineer support brigades to attack throughout the army. Engineers have the weapons needed to fight through the mountains clearing caves, or fixing small foot bridges.

It will cost us fuel at the front, a downside, but increased fighting effect migh outweight this shortcoming. Afterall we are not supporting many other fuel guzzling divisions at the front so our throughput should mostly be sufficent?
 
We are loosing good defensive ground, and the Chinese are equal, if not greater in equipment strenght. I might be somewhat inclined to put our naval research teams into use at developing some form of infantry weapons for the army.
The Administration is of the opinion that the Chinese are definitely not equal in terms of the equipment they have. Neither they are as well-trained as our troops are. However, they have no problem with sending wave after wave of soldiers against us and know that by reconquering territory they actually increase their potential. Also, even if their attacks fail, our troops often do not have enough time to regroup and regain their full strength.

Adm.Baltersar; might I suggest that for the IC not invested in naval craft, we suggest that the army use our knowledge in construction and battlefield defence tactics to recruit engineer support brigades to attack throughout the army. Engineers have the weapons needed to fight through the mountains clearing caves, or fixing small foot bridges.

It will cost us fuel at the front, a downside, but increased fighting effect migh outweight this shortcoming. Afterall we are not supporting many other fuel guzzling divisions at the front so our throughput should mostly be sufficent?
At the moment we are forming infantry divisions (composed of 3 infantry regiments) with additional artillery, AT, AA and engineers, with special emphasis put on field artillery and engineers.
 
Last edited:
Adm Yamamoto:
My office is of the opinion that the army will know best what to do with the assets available to them. We do not intend to voice our opinion unless we think it might neccessary. You and your men have been in China for years, you'll know best what you need.
My office intends to scale down production demands to a level where we still feel confident about fighting off the USN while at the same time providing as much support to the army as possible. I would suggest to Adm Yamamoto to do this too. We have to hold off the USN but we need to win China.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.