Is Sengoku too war-focused?

E

eRe4s3r

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• Sep 21, 2011

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• #41

Well it is not my intention to bash (least not without good reason ;p) the game or convert people to my views I am just saying that modders can make this game BETTER. Sengoku Jidai was an incredibly interesting era, and i am just not feeling it in Sengoku yet...

And by the way, when i talk about Shogun 2 - remember i am talking about the modded game (Road to Kyoto / The Rights of Men (Hence, TROM3)) is a mod that fixes many issues i have with the native games campaign map part.. it does simulate the development of Ashigaru from basic farmers with weapons to a proper army force as well.. (at the cost of farming output - in Shogun 2 terms "Wealth") so yeah.. and big clans have large administration costs, its more important (and viable as the Realm Divide is changed) to work with vassals ;p Point being, original Shogun 2 does many things only half-hearted and mods fixed them.. i hope Sengoku can be the same.

I would love this game to actually become the Daimyo simulator it did not want to be.. maybe its possible

 

Nefaro

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #42

eRe4s3r said:

I would love this game to actually become the Daimyo simulator it did not want to be.. maybe its possible

Click to expand...

I would also like to see this.

Will probably depend on whether enough scripting framework is included for the modders to make that happen.

 

Geredis

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #43

As mentioned elsewhere...I don't think the game is too war focused. However, as mentioned, it does seem a bit lacking to an extent in non-martial things to do.

Seeing several more building options, perhaps a few more Master slots...more interaction options would be lovely as well.

 

mp84

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #44

Nefaro said:

I would also like to see this.

Will probably depend on whether enough scripting framework is included for the modders to make that happen.

Click to expand...

Well.. it could perhaps be doable, as I do believe the Events.txt files are easily moddable, but the key will be is someone willing to put in all that amount of work? I mean, think about it..

Anything decent, with tons, and tons of events, will take at least 5-6 months if they want to be good, and possibly bug free. At that point, why bother with it cause then you'll have CK II already out and people will just play that if they want a character driven experience . However, I could be very very wrong in how long it takes, and maybe we'll see something, I mean you never know.. "Sengoku 1551" came out awfully fast, which was incredible to see, so there is hope I guess.

And I too wouldn't have mind a Daimyo Simulator either.. heh

 

unmerged(197434)

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #45

I agree it needs more, but it's still a ton of fun. It's like this incredible board game with 200 players. work on the AI, plotting, and more turmoil for big clans and penalties for honor and stability and this will be perfect. Even now, losing this game is more satisfying than winning some others.

EDIT: And while I'm dreaming, I'd like four uses per officer and the ability to use your women as spies/courtesans in other courts.

 

E

eRe4s3r

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #46

My fear is that with CK2 looming post-support that goes beyond just fixing game-breaking bugs for this game will be dropped quickly ;/
I hope its unfunded... i have really no idea how patches usually go for these games, do they add new features? Or is it strictly bugfixing and balancing?

 

mp84

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #47

eRe4s3r said:

My fear is that with CK2 looming post-support that goes beyond just fixing game-breaking bugs for this game will be dropped quickly ;/
I hope its unfunded... i have really no idea how patches usually go for these games, do they add new features? Or is it strictly bugfixing and balancing?

Click to expand...

Depends on how sucessful the title is.. Johan himself even stated if you check the mod sub-forums to the question about adding a family tree that if Sengoku is successful they may even consider adding a Family Tree to Sengoku themselves (my hopes than in that case it would basically be like the way it would be when CK II comes out)..

So basically along that line of thinking this is what I can semise from that:

If the game makes money, they'll probably support it with major game-features.. If it doesn't, then perhaps it will be more on gaming-breaking bugs, and perhaps ease of use features that are easier to do (E.G. like new Plot Screen, or Marriage screen coming in the next patch..), if it's the latter then perhaps we could be in trouble the closer CK II gets to crunch time and it has to be out, but luckily Sengoku is probably one of the rarer Paradox Titles that doesn't have many bugs from the get go which is a rather pleasant surprise.

 

fbaker4

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #48

RoboCzar said:

If you are finding you have to fight wars too often in this game, you aren't playing it as fully intended.

This game is fully about using war as a last resort. You should be making family alliances/marriages and drawing in vassals to your clan.

Click to expand...

The Sengoku period was a Civil War where the single key victor would hold all the cards; Post-Shogun diplomacy often did not have any bearing on Pre-Shogun diplomacy, and the game does a good, if not great job in simulating the winner-take-all objective. War is the _only_ way to become Shogun; Diplomacy, as someone would later famously write, is simply war by other means. (improper paraphrase intended)

Ergo: Veno, Vico, Vinco, Finito

 

alh_p

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #49

Perhaps only a warning shot accross the bows but... I will be intersted in playing CK2 if it promises more non-war/economic gameplay depth but I'd also like to have my money's worth for Sengoku thankyou very much!

 

DaLlaw

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• Sep 22, 2011

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• #50

I tend to agree that the focus leans a little heavily towards "marching troops up and down the parade square" (to quote a little Monty Python). I would expect greater tactical and strategic depth with this much focus on warfare. Since this is not normally a Paradox strength, enhancing plotting, diplomacy, and the economy would provide a balance that plays to the strength of Paradox titles. I believe the structure is there to build upon. Building can be expanded, with specific bonuses and exclusionary development trees that would provide an element of forethought to province development. There is certainly plenty of room to expand plot options. Perhaps some of these potential options can be tied into diplomatic and espionage choices to provide an extra element of depth and risk. Perhaps a plot to take control of a kori through a disgruntled member of the target clan's court (who after gaining control would swear allegiance to your Clan Leader, likely initiating a conflict), or perhaps even plotting to take control a kuni. This can be a targeted assault by the rebellious courtier, supported by your clan's funds, or a ninja initiated revolt. Perhaps a "hidden tooltip" functionality can be added to hide the fact that the courtier is actually loyal to your clan, switching sides when war is declared. Wait too long and the opponent can order the traitorous courtier beheaded for treason, blah, blah, blah. Just brainstorming here...

 

U

unmerged(90241)

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• Sep 24, 2011

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• #51

I am already tired of this game. Hopefully, CK2 will be better.
Sengoku is another EU Rome...a big disappointment for PI fans.

 

kingsword

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• Sep 24, 2011

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• #52

It wouldn't be this bad if war aspect wasn't the worst ever in a Paradox game. Basically everyone has the exact same levy amount, same kind of efficiency, same income and same unit composition. It comes down to who has more provinces and who massed up levy armies first to crush the other.

Some tester should have warned them that war was a very dull affair in this game.

 

The Disaster

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• Sep 24, 2011

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• #53

The province improvements are not really a lot of fun. You have so few choices - rarely a good thing in a strategy game. And no, I don't mean I want rocket-launching panzer elephants, a choice of fifty different crops in each province, eight different types of guildhall etc., but I would like a choice beyond selecting 'Castle', 'Village' or 'Religious Building' and the very "spreadsheet-focused" effects they have - an extra 1% on this, and extra 2% on that.
I also am not happy with the poor feedback graphically. You build your province up and the difference on the map is minute. No cities or towns, no fields or roads, etc. Just a nasty little blobby castle.

 

Sensational

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• Sep 24, 2011

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• #54

Is Vanilla too Vanilla?

I'd say no. Some people want chocolate, some people want vanilla. While I'd love to see more depth in other aspects of the game, I don't believe it needs it. I can accept that Sengoku is what it is, I can happily wait for CK2 to get that part of the genre. I'm not saying I'd complain if there is more stuff added to the other aspects however this game does it's thing very well, if anything I think the war part of the game should be expanded on. More depth when it comes to leaders, some form of strategic decisions, perhaps more units, or different units.

 

U

unmerged(169164)

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• Sep 24, 2011

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• #55

Since the moment I discovered the game had an attrition feature through levies, I would state not enough.

Apparently, the game should be so war focused you would be led to draw more and more on your levies, causing in the end, a revolt danger (10 per overspent province)

As all out wars involved mass levies are scarced in the game, well, wars are not enough intense.


Blobbing is part of the game. Cant be otherwise as it is about unifying Japan. At one moment or another, there should be a blob at least somewhere.

Provinces upgrades is not that a trouble as it partakes from different strategies: you can go for fast upgrades by giving a province one lord each or you can attribute daimyo titles or more provinces to one lord and get a slower developpment.

The issue comes that adding more and more lords is not a factor of instability. Many things can happen to other clans while they are blobbing. Nothing to you. Having 40 lords is not an issue.

There is no balancing between expansion vs internal stability.

Yet it changes the game. Playing with the constraint of keeping the number of direct vassals low changes the perspective. Money is no longer flowing that much, honour is consumed reorganizing fiefs. Ninjas are used internally, with the inherent risk of upsetting the vassal you target.

The trouble is the constraint is artificial. Nothing forces to reduce the number of vassals.

 

U

unmerged(90241)

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• Sep 25, 2011

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• #56

There are way too many provinces. Basically, I end up with 150-200 provinces and it gets extremely tedious to raise levies from all the individual provinces, to move them to a certain part of the map, and to micromanage them in wars. It is just no fun.

I don't know why this bugs me so much, I have played all the other PI games, EU3, HOI2, Vickie 2, and CK, etc., and I have never noticed this.

 

U

unmerged(169164)

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• Sep 25, 2011

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• #57

At this point, you do not need levies. Retinue plus ronin army is enough.

 

Geredis

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• Sep 25, 2011

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• #58

I'd also like to point out that the game also has a "raise all" button you can use to ease the problem.

 

ZechsMerquise73

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• Sep 25, 2011

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• #59

I've only played the demo so far, but I think it has better gameplay than all the other Paradox games.

 

Yrsnö

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• Sep 25, 2011

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• #60

Both premise and game play wise this game is not too war-focused. But it would have been nice to have a little more to do outside warmongering.