How do you gain land peacefully?

[Die Nacht]

I heard that one of the awesome things about this game is that you can gain land peacefully and only use your armies on rare cases. Thus giving the option to maybe pass the game with little to no wars


But how do you do this? There is no option in the diplomacy section to trade land. The inherit system doesn't seem to work across factions (I married this guy's daughter, and he has no biological heir. Yet for some reason, he named this random guy in his clan his heir?). There needs to be an option to claiming inheritances from other people.

I read in a review (don't remember which one) that the guy enjoyed passing the game without war because he didn't want to have to lay siege for years. So it is possible to do it without war? How?

[Becephalus]

Inheritance. Marry your heirs to the daughters of other leaders, then kill their sons.

[Die Nacht]

Inheritance. Marry your heirs to the daughters of other leaders, then kill their sons.

Did that, didn't work. Instead it just shows the leader and no heir.

[GShock]

If it had been possible there wouldn't have been such a bloody struggle back then in Japan.
I suppose there's a diplomatic way if for instance you have high honor and you invite subjects of someone into your clan but probably you can't do that with other clan leaders... I'm at a loss here, I just got the game and can barely set marriages so I will wait, like you, for a good answer.

[fbaker4]

Yeah....I am not sure it's possible in the truest sense... I had a pretty good game going as the Isshiki, then overextended myself and got jumped; went from 50+ provinces to 2, and eventually was able to beg someone to take me in as a subject. I became part of their clan, though I still held the leadership for me. So - then they get in a war, and I don't get involved, but as they gain provinces, I get messages asking me if I'd like to become the kokujin of this province or that province. Pretty soon, I was back up to 7 provinces, and could raise enough in $ to get my own retainers, and then was able, in the next few wars, to gain another 10-15 provinces, which I then assigned to my lackeys; and then at the war after that, I broke away.

So yes, it can be done, but it's a process that can't lead to becoming Shogun.

[Die Nacht]

Yeah....I am not sure it's possible in the truest sense... I had a pretty good game going as the Isshiki, then overextended myself and got jumped; went from 50+ provinces to 2, and eventually was able to beg someone to take me in as a subject. I became part of their clan, though I still held the leadership for me. So - then they get in a war, and I don't get involved, but as they gain provinces, I get messages asking me if I'd like to become the kokujin of this province or that province. Pretty soon, I was back up to 7 provinces, and could raise enough in $ to get my own retainers, and then was able, in the next few wars, to gain another 10-15 provinces, which I then assigned to my lackeys; and then at the war after that, I broke away.

So yes, it can be done, but it's a process that can't lead to becoming Shogun.

That doesn't sound like diplomacy, just pure luck. (luck that they selected you for the new provinces, even though you didn't fight).

[fbaker4]

Right; not possible in the truest sense.

[kamatsu]

You can gain land peacefully during war, for example plot to attack a daimyo with the daimyo's kokujin in on the plot. They'll defect to you when you carry out the plot.

[Conquiztador]

how can you do that?

i saw you can only plot against clans,not daymios

[Die Nacht]

You can, but only of they are of another clan than the ruling clan. This makes this strategy only really work against mega clans who have several clans in itself (like Ouchi).

[jimwinsor]

I actually gained land by dynastic inheritance in my first game. My Homna son married an eldest daughter of a Uesugi vassal. That vassal dies w/o male issue. My son took over the province, transfering his allegence to Uesegi.

I think it's important to note this son held no Homna titles; had this been the case the inheritance/transfer probably would not have gone through, I'm guessing.

So long story short, my son inherited, but I lost my son (and daughter in law, of course) to the Uesegi clan.

But only temporarily. My older sons died, making this 3rd son the new Homna heir. It was a very odd situation to say the least, having a clan heir who was officially in another clan, but there you have it. Then when my clan leader dies at 71, boom! I got my son back as my new Homna clan leader, and he brought his wife and Uesugi provinces with him.

Yes, provinces plural. The Uesegi to a shine to my son apparantly, and bestowed three additional provinces on him during his tenure there. So, I essentially gained 4 provinces peacefully. Not bad considering Homna island only starts with 3 provinces.

[Captain Gars]

I actually gained land by dynastic inheritance in my first game. My Homna son married an eldest daughter of a Uesugi vassal. That vassal dies w/o male issue. My son took over the province, transfering his allegence to Uesegi.

I think it's important to note this son held no Homna titles; had this been the case the inheritance/transfer probably would not have gone through, I'm guessing.

So long story short, my son inherited, but I lost my son (and daughter in law, of course) to the Uesegi clan.

But only temporarily. My older sons died, making this 3rd son the new Homna heir. It was a very odd situation to say the least, having a clan heir who was officially in another clan, but there you have it. Then when my clan leader dies at 71, boom! I got my son back as my new Homna clan leader, and he brought his wife and Uesugi provinces with him.

Yes, provinces plural. The Uesegi to a shine to my son apparantly, and bestowed three additional provinces on him during his tenure there. So, I essentially gained 4 provinces peacefully. Not bad considering Homna island only starts with 3 provinces.

Nice Yes, inheritance can give you some interesting situations from time to time. For instance, the Ashikaga clan starts with two brothers in a civil war. Should however these characters die, there is a third brother - Masatomo, who is a daimyo under Uesugi - who inherits the Ashikaga clan and takes his province and his two vassals with him when he leaves the Uesugi. I've seen this happen and it's probably the best chance the Ashikaga shogunate have to survive.

[Blxz]

What you have desribed in the OP sounds very much like another game. It could either be Crusder Kings I or possibly the later expansions of Europa Universalis III (ie. Heir to the throne and Divine Wind).

In this game it is possible but as everyone else has said its not a focus at all and you will lose if that is your only strategy for gaining land. It doesn't quite fit the whole atmosphere of the game.

[Die Nacht]

Nice Yes, inheritance can give you some interesting situations from time to time. For instance, the Ashikaga clan starts with two brothers in a civil war. Should however these characters die, there is a third brother - Masatomo, who is a daimyo under Uesugi - who inherits the Ashikaga clan and takes his province and his two vassals with him when he leaves the Uesugi. I've seen this happen and it's probably the best chance the Ashikaga shogunate have to survive.

You see, these are the stories I was hoping to create and see in this game. But it is impossible to create without having some sort of guidelines on how inheritances work.
Can we get some sort of rule book? Or maybe, even better, an in-game screen showing, for a given title, the line of succession? This will allow for more fun stories like this one!

What you have desribed in the OP sounds very much like another game. It could either be Crusder Kings I or possibly the later expansions of Europa Universalis III (ie. Heir to the throne and Divine Wind).

In this game it is possible but as everyone else has said its not a focus at all and you will lose if that is your only strategy for gaining land. It doesn't quite fit the whole atmosphere of the game.

I am not saying that I will try to pass the game with no war (that is impossible), however, it is a strategy you can use when facing an enemy that is much, much larger and stronger than you are. Like right now, I am So, trying to figure out how to destroy the huge, Ouchi clan so I can expand northward. No way in hell I can beat the Ouchi in war, they have tens of thousands of men while I have a meager 2K. However, I was able to make a civil war in the Shino clan so I could expand in-land (they beat me like 5-1, but the civil war weaken them so much). Now I want to do the same, in a much larger scale, against the Ouchi.

[Blxz]

Cival war yes, using your 2K troops and inheriting some of their land...no. There is no way you can inherit faster than they will be conquering. Also keep in mind that the game is of finite length. There are only so many generations to be played so you can't just take them piecemeal over a long time. I suggest some internal plots as a good first step.

[bleary]

I actually gained land by dynastic inheritance in my first game.

I managed to very nearly lose lands in this manner. Playing the Shoni, I married my middle son to the daughter and only child of the leader of the So clan. They produce a well-connected grandson for me. Seemed reasonable. However, old man So keels over without producing an heir, and then my grandson becomes leader of a new clan, also called Shoni! Confusing.

I do some poking around, and my middle son is now a hostage in my own territory. I have no idea how this happened, but I presume it's because he's the son of one clan leader and the father of another, and nobody trusts him anymore. Cool. A little more poking around reveals that the infant ruler of the new Shoni clan with the same color and crest as mine has named my eldest son as his heir. Oh, this is a problem. My eldest son was not the most promising future clan leader, so we're going with my youngest son to inherit. I did grant some kojukin to my eldest son, however.

So now I'm facing the prospect that if my infant grandson dies, my eldest son will inherit clan leader status, two daimyo titles, two more kojukin, and take his desmene off into a new clan that looks just like my clan, totally fragmenting our little island and wrecking everything.

I ended up having to declare war on my grandson. Would there have been any diplomatic or clandestine way to resolve this?

[oddible]

So now I'm facing the prospect that if my infant grandson dies, my eldest son will inherit clan leader status, two daimyo titles, two more kojukin, and take his desmene off into a new clan that looks just like my clan, totally fragmenting our little island and wrecking everything.

I ended up having to declare war on my grandson. Would there have been any diplomatic or clandestine way to resolve this?

Both are your lineage. If your infant grandson dies, and your first son inherits the So titles, can't you name him as your successor and when your current clan leader dies you'll just pick up as him? Gaining both Shoni and So titles for him?

[feelotraveller]

I ended up having to declare war on my grandson. Would there have been any diplomatic or clandestine way to resolve this?

Assassination(s) coupled with astute inheritance. Getting whoever your grandson's heir is as your leader is easiest and ninja away - goodbye grandson, hello (re)unified Shoni.

[Doone]

Ive also not had luck with marriage inheritances. Is this impossible or just exceedingly rare?

I enjoy diplomacy in war games, becuase its usually the toughest route to victory. Discussing the best ways to gain land peaceful is def something Im interested in. But I dont want to waste hours trying inheritance if its not a reasonable option (reasonable = can inherit at least 1 province in any given game).

[ChienAboyeur]

It can be extremelly rewarding so the inheritance has to be connected to preparation.

I had one lucky inheritance once. Playing as ouchi, and Usuegi was blobbing. Trying to appease them, I marry one daughter of the clan leader. He had 8 children among which 3 sons, I married the sixth which was a daughter.

Without doing anything, the son the Ouchi clan leader had with that daughter was left as the only heir to the clan leader.

Very unlikely outcome and this son when he inherited moved several daimyo titles with him. A few months, later, the Usuegi broke into several clans.

Very potent. In the regard of the game, you have to work for such a potentially powerful opportunity.