- Dec 14, 1999
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Hm, building gain honor gain I have not noticed making much of a diference. Actually, i have been making so much honor that I never even considered building pottery.
I feel events are a clunky and anoying way to deal with it. It is not really transparent and can be annoying.
Scaling cost with possible gain could work, but it would make big guys realy not want to fight each other wouldn't it?
Personally I weighing between scaling cost to relative size for war and honor cost for actions going up when larger. I am leaning to the latter but Im waiting to see some discussion on the subject.
I feel events are a clunky and anoying way to deal with it. It is not really transparent and can be annoying.
Scaling cost with possible gain could work, but it would make big guys realy not want to fight each other wouldn't it?
Personally I weighing between scaling cost to relative size for war and honor cost for actions going up when larger. I am leaning to the latter but Im waiting to see some discussion on the subject.
I chose "scaling on relative size (don't hit the little guy)."
Regarding the event series, that would probably make me rage (briefly) because it would come at the wrong moment and the character would be forced to sa-poo-koo.
edit to add:
Regarding the event series, that would probably make me rage (briefly) because it would come at the wrong moment and the character would be forced to sa-poo-koo.
edit to add:
This is nice too. I'm guessing the effect would be that the larger the clan gets the slower it would expand. Lower overall honor might mean more competitors willing to attack it.
I voted "Scale cost depending on relative size when declaring war, ie, don't hit the small guy".
I assume this would work like this :
If you declare war on someone who is smaller then you, you will have to pay more honour, if someone stronger then you, less honor.
This sollution makes sense for me because it would make you seem less honorable when attacking the weak clans.
EDIT: also, how about a great impact of relations when deciding honor cost of plotting and wars?
I assume this would work like this :
If you declare war on someone who is smaller then you, you will have to pay more honour, if someone stronger then you, less honor.
This sollution makes sense for me because it would make you seem less honorable when attacking the weak clans.
EDIT: also, how about a great impact of relations when deciding honor cost of plotting and wars?
Framed! All Magna Mundi like. Not really fitting in a game were ninjas are already in and it is so detailed with relations and all
If war costs honor, then worthy adversary should cost less honor to declare war against then weak ones. That will be quite true to bushido.
I agree, thats what I reccomended also. Relations already have an impact on honor cost but it should be lot greater I think.
Don't think buildings make much difference.
Scaling by possible title gain will make it real hard to declare on 'blobs', so no.
Relative size has some merits but although it will slow down blob expansion it will not reduce their honour (they will still regenerate it at incredible rate).
Events I like :laugh:.
Scaling by size has some merit but given current dimensions (i.e. 100 scale, penalty at 25) will not be truly scaleable. 150 province clan 50 honour to declare, 3 province clan 1 honour? I think not.
Scaling by possible title gain will make it real hard to declare on 'blobs', so no.
Relative size has some merits but although it will slow down blob expansion it will not reduce their honour (they will still regenerate it at incredible rate).
Events I like :laugh:.
Scaling by size has some merit but given current dimensions (i.e. 100 scale, penalty at 25) will not be truly scaleable. 150 province clan 50 honour to declare, 3 province clan 1 honour? I think not.
If it all scales exactly on size then theirs no different challenge as you get bigger, whereas the third one gives something different to consider and it makes sense in terms of historical honour.
But this is "romantic Japan", not historical.
Large clans had no issue whatsoever stomping on the smaller ones.
Famous (counter) exemple is Imagawa one of the biggest clan at the time, trying to crush the little daimyo of Owari, while he was on his way to Kyoto.
Of course, said daimyo was Oda Nobunaga, and his surprise victory at okehazama made him famous throughout Japan...
More revolt risk for a bigger clans. I'd like to see some more big civil wars from pretenders.
As far as I know we haven't said yet how we would scale this. It would of course not be a linear scale from one province and upwards.
May I suggest a "Bash the leader" mechanism, where honor cost for actions directed AGAINST someone who is about to win (say over 40%) are greatly reduced?
That would maybe induce all other clans to try to attack him, before he "usurps" the Shogun title.
That would maybe induce all other clans to try to attack him, before he "usurps" the Shogun title.
ad historical ganging-up on small(weak) guy:
"Lending strength to the strong, and thus profiting from it...is common sense." - thats what (allegedly) Yamamoto Kansuke has to say about it...
And i sure aint gonna argue with him
"Lending strength to the strong, and thus profiting from it...is common sense." - thats what (allegedly) Yamamoto Kansuke has to say about it...
And i sure aint gonna argue with him
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The whole honour system in this game is loosely based around a romantic Japan model. If you wanted it to be historical honour would be much less important and 'authority' a stat combining fear and leadership would be much more important.
Notwithstanding Paradox final decision about this, could it be possible to give us the option to mod any of those choices in?
I am not sure, but i think it could also help to boost vassal honor a little bit (for example have a honor increase- modifier for reliable/longtime vassals). That way vassals in general will be more able to start and join plots.
EDIT: to help make bigger blobs a little less unassailable. I still would like to see some of the options in the poll anyways.
EDIT: to help make bigger blobs a little less unassailable. I still would like to see some of the options in the poll anyways.
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I did not think that the current Honor system is on the romantic side of things: you can plot, you can secede, you can attack the one kori daimyo next door, you can exchange "honor" for money. I do think that despite the name, current "honor" is more or less the "authority" /social standing of the leader.
My comment was only aimed at the "its not honorable to prey on the weak" proposed modification
I know thats what you meant. But what lets be honest in Japan like anywhere else with warlords the winner would be the person who could convince people he was a winner and vanquish those he couldn't convince.
Honour did play a significant role in Japanese society but its role in warfare has been deliberately exaggerated to give a different experience and I think option three fits in with that, as much as any of the others anyway.