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Thread: Last Tango in 1.3 - An Argentine AAR

  1. #81
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Two: To The Eternal Glory of the Infantry

    morningSIDEr I wish! The Battles score doesn't count in separate peace deals, as I discuss before too long. Puts a crimp in making two deals (which is probably W-exactly-AD).

    Dewirix Numbers, I think, are going to be a problem for me until the end, though I will try to mass my ships together. My usual strategy isn't working, ignore the navy and hope for the best, so I do need to try something different.

    BootOnFace It came as quite a surprise to me, but I think that you're right.

    Previously on "Last Tango" - Argentina was in the midst of an invasion of Britain, and outnumbered 270k to 160k in the primary battle

    The war is going well where it doesn't matter, like Korea, or doesn't matter much, like Odessa, and this is before the Russians mobilize. As if to taunt me with their meaninglessness, on the 13th of March 1914 I take two more Korean provinces, and yet another on the 14th. More importantly, on the 14th I finally win Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Yes, it looks to me as though the not-surrounded-by-a-long-shot UK troops all surrendered. Or were overcome by gas? I'm not sure where the 18,000 men went [ed - I see in a later screenshot that retreating enemy flags can be quite small, so they are almost certainly doing just that; if I had moused over the stacks of armies I'd have seen them on the list].



    I have now inflicted roughly 60,000 casualties on Britain however, between South Africa and the UK itself. Only 5 million to go. Three days later I successfully pocket the 45,000 Russians in the Budjak area.



    The British throw everything they have in the UK, that I can see, into Hull, and I think to myself "I have an idea".



    Meanwhile, I pocket 23,000 troops in the St. Petersburg area. On the 24th, Kiev falls, and my Ottoman-based troops spread out over southwest Russia. I take two more Russian provinces while setting up around Hull.



    The Brits in Hull turn red by March 29, but it turns out they had plenty of troops hiding in shadows [ed - invisible armies! me - quiet, you]. My transports try to make a fast break to the UK coast to reinforce the Argentine invasion. The battle in Leeds, which appears to spill over into Manchester, is the key to holding the Hull pocket together. Three thousand Argentines will fight to hold off eighty-thousand Brits for as long as possible. If they're still fighting when I win in Hull, vast quantities of Brits will surrender, if not, the Brits escape.



    Meanwhile, as long as we're making pockets, nearly 50,000 UK soldiers are surrounded near the state of Benin which I share with the UK.



    The battle in Hull goes very well, and more men are on their way, but the battle in Leeds is what holds the pocket together. In Leeds, 2300 Yaounde infantry hold off 120,000 British troops. The famous sheer cliffs and volcanic craters of Leeds provide excellent defensive ground for such a fight.



    Meanwhile, the equally useful defensive terrain in Thabu Boiu, near Zulu, proves the undoing of the British in South Africa, especially combined with gas attacks, and my Zulu warriors lose 5000 men while killing 50,000 British Empire soldiers (the total is 110,000 now). It's the second battle of Isandlwana, only this time the Zulu have better weapons.



    The pocket in Luga, near St Petersburg, holds, and 40,000 Russians are killed or captured. There are now no Russians visible near their capitol, and on April 24th we capture it. We now have a warscore of 8, with a nominal warscore needed of 17 (which last time meant 30+). Our fleet off Tyne is badly mauled, losing all 55 transports and all eight medium ships. Only 14 large warships retreat. However, they did their job, and the Hull pocket now has 240,000 Argentines, while 2100 Yaounde infantry continue their battle in Leeds, holding the pocket together.



    The first of May sees more provinces fall in both Russia and Korea, while all the battles in the UK continue. The eighth of May sees yet another province fall, and the troops holding out in Leeds are back in green! Frankly, I'd given these guys up for lost the minute that battle started. I had no idea it was even numerically possible for this battle to go the way it did (if I recall correctly, changes in 1.4 will wipe out armies like this one, which is for the best). I tried to pull men out of the Newcastle-upon-Tyne fight into Leeds, but you cannot retreat (directly) into a battle.



    On May 11th, To the Eternal Glory of the Infantry, the Leeds troops hold the pocket together to the end, and the battle of Hull is won! A total of 280,000 Brits are added to the Argentine tally, at a cost of 9400 casualties.



    That's 390,000 for those keeping score at home, and our brothers in Leeds look like their odds of victory just went up. Many of the troops from Hull have to take the long way around, given that the Newcastle fighting still rages, but a new pocket is planned for Leeds. It hardly seems worth doing. Any 120,000-strong army which cannot beat 2300 men ought to surrender in shame. Cliffs and craters notwithstanding. The Benin pocket begins to look a bit raggedy when 50,000 Brits are added to the fight in one of the surrounding areas. However, you can retreat into a fight, indirectly. So some of my soon-to-be-victorious troops withdraw from the main fight to circle around to part of the pocket.



    Or they would have, if the fight hadn't suddenly ended with the death or capture of another 46,000 British soldiers (that's 436,000 now). With all the provinces I have captured in Russia, my needed score for Budjak is down to 13, but my warscore there is only 9 for a separate peace. My warscore against the Brits is 28, and I've reached the maximum +25 from Battles, yet they still won't accept the same +13 value peace deal. On May 22 I won the Newcastle battle, adding 31,000 to my British tally, though the rest were not surrounded and did not vanish (that's 467,000). This is when it occurred to me that the other UK flags might have just been quite small in the first battle I thought the UK survivors vanished from. I had originally thought enemy troops had vanished in South Africa, earlier, and only learned otherwise when I looked closely at the screenshot. Sauron has so many men that it's tough to know which are new and which have been in battle before. There's always a bigger stack. Sometimes what I had thought were new troops were men I'd beaten once already. A south African win pushes the total to 475,000. A new Benin pocket is looking pretty good, and so is the one in Leeds.



    On June 7th we conquered Hull. The smaller battles in Zulu land continue, and probably took up more of my attention than all combat in Russia. In Korea I largely ignore events there. You have got to love China as an ally. On June 12 the Benin pocket collapses, adding another 48,000 Brits to our total, which now stands at 523,000. I lost 3700 men. June also sees the deployment of my first airplanes in Africa, where they won't matter much. However, any war in Europe is going to need the Recon of Aeroplanes to speed up occupation. I now have two more pockets in the UK. At this point, the UK battles look like the last Chilean war.



    On June 23 I grant Serbia a white peace. I have no idea what they contributed to my warscore, and assume it's not much, but the deal was probably unwise. I did it because I always feel as though the AI likes allies, and hoped that taking one away would help (I recall totally occupied AI countries continuing to fight in EU2 [1?] if they had allies). Victory in Carlisle adds 53,000 to my tally, only 9000 of whom were killed. The jackpot now stands at 576,000. On July 1, Brest-Litovsk falls, giving you some idea how far my Russian occupation has gone. Still no mobilization. The Russians seem awfully sure that the Brits will do all the heavy lifting in this war. I assume they do not get news from England on a regular basis. On July 6 I lost Ipoh, I believe the first province I've lost since my Chilean wars. However, I took Kharkov, and most importantly the Leeds pocket collapses. For the cost of 6000 Argentine casualties I add 121,000 Brits to the NY Lotto Jackpot, which now stands at 697,000.



    On the 8th I take Lincoln, and I begin to spread out to occupy much of the British homeland. I begin to have thoughts of wargoals added at this point, and I'm pretty confident that losing Argentinian Arucania is not in the cards. Another British army is pocketed in Zululand, and their defeat on July 11 adds 38,000 to the total (735,000). On July 12 we took Bryansk and Gomel, and word went out accross Russia. "Gomel!" They said. "Not Gomel!" And the Russian bear finally awakens.

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  2. #82
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    That's an impressive performance the Argentinian army have put in against the UK. I'm guessing that the AI isn't surrendering for two reasons: firstly, there's a general reluctance to make peace in the early stages of a war; secondly, the UK still outnumbers you, so they'll likely try to hold out until war weariness from occupied provinces gets too bad.

    All in all, I think you've got the beating of them providing you can get at least some degree of naval control to allow you to occupy more land.
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  3. #83
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    You should really install the Great Wars minimod. It would actually make invading the British Isles worth it. And you can install it mid-game without it messing things up. Unless you're above the infamy limit.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    On May 11th, To the Eternal Glory of the Infantry, the Leeds troops hold the pocket together to the end, and the battle of Hull is won! A total of 280,000 Brits are added to the Argentine tally, at a cost of 9400 casualties.
    Epic stuff! I can only imagine the 121,000 Brits 'fighting' in Leeds were all Scots with those actually in battle too soused to fire their rifles correctly, the rest of the army cheering drunkenly from the sidelines. Truly rather amazing that the defence in Leeds held but it has given you a considerable boost in the war with Britain, occupy enough of the mainland and you should be able to acquire some gains from them. Which is just as well considering Russia is finally mobilising...
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  5. #85
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Three: The End of the War

    Dewirix Thanks, and good points. I suspect I'm going to be in trouble at sea for a while.

    BootOnFace I might try it, but I do want to continue this in vanilla 1.3.

    morningSIDEr I suspected that firing into Leeds while standing in Manchester was their problem, but I'll go with drunken Scotts!

    Previously on "Last Tango" - The Russian bear awakens, even in caves I have taken from him. How rude!

    In honor of the 440th anniversary of the Battle of Lepanto, the Argentine Navy has the day off. By the way, the country view seems to confirm what I suspected in writing the AAR, and what ought to have occurred to me while playing - Sauron/UK mobilized when I hit Britain/Mordor itself. Argentina forced the UK to mobilize? That makes me very happy.



    Something that is entirely realistic and yet really annoying is that the Russian forces mobilize in occupied territories. I should have closed those recruiting centers. As you can imagine, fighting erupts all over western Russia. It's weird seeing enemy forces sharing a province with mine, and being able to re-arrange armies and even order movement because the game is paused and the battle has not yet started. I reinforce as many 3000-man forces as I can, and try to regroup. I check the peace negotiations table, and while I need only a warscore of 8 now, and I have a score of 29, the Brits are a no-go. The Russians have not lost the battles that Sauron has, so I'm barely at the nominal warscore necessary if you don't count battles (but province control does count extra vs Russia). Russia thinks the war is still in play, and with 2 million men in the field, they have a point. Still, Russian provinces continue to fall to my occupation, and I make a mad scramble to keep what I have taken.



    I win numerous battles against Russian conscripts, each nominally worth between half and a full point of warscore, and I begin to have hopes of a peace with Russia, followed by making demands of the UK. However, there are so many Russians, and my troops were not deployed to meet the mobilization, that it's a struggle to save as many of my small forces, and defend the territory I have already taken. Also, if memory serves, even the battle victories against Russia don't count at all in the separate peace calculation with Russia. On August 1 I receive my first overture of this long war: a White Peace offer from the Russians. Thanks guys! I needed a laugh. August 6th added (should have added?)(I am obviously unsure about how that works) nearly 3 points to my battles warscore vs Russia, and if you look closely on the left you can see that Ipswitch will fall soon.



    I check the peace negotiations table, and lo and behold, Sauron may not share power, but he will share Russia!



    My land:



    Sorry for splitting off the war like that, but my last post was up to 17 screenshots, and that seemed like the best place to make the division. I can't see fighting two million Russians for another state. The good news is that we can now get the last mid-game overview chapter out of the way. My troops are worn out, so the next war will not come as quickly as I'd like (which would be right now). The Fascist party forms in Argentina. As a mere observer of these tasteless phenomena, I'd like to admire the stage management, but I do not. I advise them to pick a leader with a pretty wife. Looking at world population rankings, we can see that Argentina is huge! Her 100 million people rank behind only China, the UK, Russia and the USA. We're 25% larger than France, nearly double Austria and triple anyone else. Send us your tired, your poor, your literate craftsmen yearning to pay taxes.



    In score, we're Rank 4 and nearly double our closest competitor, Austria. We're arguably within range of all but the UK. As I discuss at the end of this chapter, however, we're now on a Mission from God, and score maximizing is not in the cards (though we will spam Dreadnoughts, if only to give us a fighting chance at sea if we must fight Sauron again). Hey, look, both Guatemala and the USCA are secondary powers. Don't see that often.



    Here we can see the source of our success, industry, especially automobiles. That factory in Araucania tells me that my constant building of near-empty factories was not a bad idea. I have had to swap my NF recruiting craftsmen away from Santiago because I was just causing unemployment. When you get to the point where Craftsmen are your most common Pop type in a densely populated province, that will happen. The mid-game review has another salutory effect, it taught me that I cannot ignore the Coal and Steel column of Argentina's research any longer, we're is a serious producer. In unrelated news, it strikes me as bizarre that I take in nearly 1000/day in gold, and it just doesn't matter.



    We have the third highest population of craftsmen on earth (though the competition is close). I have checked a few of my colonies for possible promotion, but the big ones do not have any Platineans at all! No sense recruiting Bureaucrats, it will just make more native ones.



    Here is the most important screenshot for the rest of the game. It's just the same ledger page sorted for soldiers, but Argentina is third in the world, and our competitors are left in the dust. On the other hand, Argentina plus China equals half of the UK. Good thing we're only down to +100 relations with Sauron.



    In Brigades, it's about the same as pre-war, UK 1700, China 1100, Argentina 720, all the rest under 200. My pocketing of Russia's regular army paid off, it has only 105 brigades now. Japan has more at 108. Here's my Army and Navy research. I have all I can get in Army, of course, and not as much as I'd like, strangely enough, in naval research. I want to avoid having my modern ships chased off by the Sophie and the Suprise, or any other wooden ships.



    Here's the rest in one screenshot. A bit busy, sorry. I don't care much about taxes (I have tons of money) though I took a few in +Diplomatic Points, and some in factory-boosting tech in the last row. I stopped prestige early, grabbed all +Reseach techs and a good amount of the +Lit and Plurality/NF. Industry wise I need to grab more coal and iron techs.



    Here's my political screen. I have approximately 25% in immigrant boosts between Social and Political reforms. The last few % aren't worth the cost, it seems to me, and that 14 hour workday everyone wants? Forget it great grandpa. If I still have to work 8 hours days 2011, you can work 16 hour days in 1911. Fair's fair.



    It's funny, normally trade unions are one of my favorites, since I think all they do is boost Social Reform desire. Here I have social reforms out the wazoo, and I'd like a political reform or two, even if I don't need unions. Here are all my states and colonies. Note that I checked a dozen colonies, Warri, Zarria and others, and I have 0.00% Platineans in them. I'd love states, if only to know that in some future game I have the means of making states (I remember it taking me forever, around a decade each recruiting Buros, as Persia), but I see no way to get them here. Recruiting Buros just got me native Buros in prior games, and that won't help at all.



    Here's my Africa, font size somewhat disappointing.



    Here is Europe, poised for some fun times ahead.



    Here is a selection of Top 5 Producers of critical or at least Argentine-influenced products.



    I will reveal to you now the long term plan, which as I write this has been percolating in my brain for some time, but which I have not moved to accomplish yet, except in the preparatory steps you have seen. Conquering a state requires either a lucky CB or 10 Infamy, which costs me around 8 years of peace-time waiting. With wars, that's only one state per decade, plus one or two if I am lucky. However, Free People costs me 3BB per state, and I could do that, assuming two different foes, every time a five-year truce runs out. This is the reason I took Budjak instead of something between Russia and the NGF - I want to free Poland! Think about it, how can WW2 start if there is no Poland? The Poles are occupied by two powers who it would be fun to fight. My original plan was not to build Argentina up to the maximum, but to have fun and hopefully keep things interesting.

    So my Mission from God is to spend the next two decades freeing the Poles. Since they will be in my SoI, they'll hold just as many Argentine troops as if I owned the land. Here is a look at the world before the rebirth of Poland (and apparently before I got Budjak, meh).

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  6. #86
    General morningSIDEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentIII View Post
    Here's my Africa, font size somewhat disappointing.
    Shocking stuff! If only there was some technological advance to increase the font size...

    After your many battlefield victories over both Britain and Russia to only get one province does seem a bit dissapointing but considering the amount of men they have under arms, it is still a great result. I like the plan to free Poland. Lots of warfare and liberation rather than subjugation for once! It will just prove to the rest of the world that they need not have worried about Argentina; she is a liberator only wishing to give independence to poor, oppressed nations throughout the world. *cough*
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    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Four: Into Germany!

    morningSIDEr I'd love a font-size tech! Yes, Argentina is truly a liberator, not simply a country which fights other countries because peace is dull. Nope. And we would never ever take a state for ourselves, unless of course we could.

    Previously on "Last Tango" - Argentina announced that it had set its sights on both Germany and Russia. Having just fought Russia...


    NOTE - I'm old enough to have watched Johnny Carson on an old black and white TV when I ought to have been asleep, or at least not laughing loud enough to wake my parents. I bring this up because I am about to start the next part of the game, having just written the overview chapter of yesterday, and I started worrying a bit about doing poorly. However, Johnny Carson was never funnier than when his material was awful, when none of his jokes worked, and he was just out there on stage, alone, suffering. He'd alternate between laughing at himself and cursing the audience. It was fun to watch him bomb, because it was interesting, and because he was okay with it. That's what I am looking for here. I realize that I might look like a fool when I load up my save game and start playing, but I hope I will be an interesting and entertaining fool. I'm sure I'll laugh if it all goes south, too.

    I have 750,000 troops in Belgium, and I load up another 200,000 or so onto transports and head there. Who can keep track? Belgium is totally full, any more men in any province will put me over the supply limit. These new troops will unload as the men in Belgium launch their attack on Germany. As I am loading my men up in Warri, I get what appears to be a lucky break: an acquire state CB on Germany. Now, don't suspect me, dear reader, as this merely complicates my war plans. My goal is still a free Poland, though I admit that I am not against acquiring a state for myself. However, Germany is allied with Sauron, and I have zero reason to think that the AI learns from prior wars. Therefore, wanting two states, however well justified that might be, is simply asking for trouble. What I am saying is that I'll demand the CB state, sure, obviously. But I won't enjoy it.



    By the way, despite how well the last war went in England, I very much do not want to go right back into fighting the UK. Fly, you fools. This will be so much easier with just me and my 1 million men (and I assume with the freedom to import more at my leisure) against Germany's 150 brigades, i.e. 450,000 regular army, plus whatever might pop out of their farms and mines. My attempts to get military access through Austria all fail. It would be very convenient to be able to walk to Germany from the Ottoman territories where much of my army is housed.

    So, quietly chanting "no Sauron, no Sauron" I DoW, when my new combat ships arrive in Belgium. Apparently, truces only work offensively (or against me, as I prefer to believe). None of my allies join the war, though the UK does. There's probably a very clear rule I should have understood better here. <sigh> Ah, well. May a crazed holy man set fire to the hairs in your nose!

    I am going to pocket as much of the German army as possible, and ignore the UK as long as possible. If I take the target states, rack up a good score with occupations, why would Sauron stay at war forever to deny me parts of Germany? The trouble with demanding Hannover, which is what I choose, is that the seven province state costs a very high war score. Owning Hannover would be a huge benefit to me, but the war cost is huge as well. There are level four forts all along Germany's border with me, and plenty of other forts, too.



    Fortunately the Germans cannot defend against Gas Attacks, although I conclude through the course of the early fights that I had an Army tech advantage against the Uk which I do not have against Germany. Also, there are a good number of German troops, though I do not recall seeing a mobilization order or stacks of red-numbered armies.



    I try to maintain encirclement armies big enough to keep out German reinfocements. I cannot count on repeats of Leeds. This means trying to roll up one big fight and send the victorious armies into the next pocket. Therefore, some fights will be more even than I'd like for weeks at a time. Germany's minor allies have large enough armies to actually matter, if not to turn the tide of war. Also, I learn early on that Germany has access to France. I of course do not.



    Early battles go reasonably well, considering the number of German troops held in pockets which are not represented here. In other words, I'm winning the even fights. My big wins should be on the way.



    Argentine communists rise up in revolt on January 28, 1916. This wouldn't matter at all, but commie armies of 6k and 9k appear in Belgium bordering Germany. My pocket protectors were single brigades, recently recruited. They are overcome by the communist rebels. Men from the front are sent to clean up and take their places. I check to see whether further overtures to Austria would be worthwhile, but request for military access has gone from "Maybe" to "Impossible". Good luck in Belgium, guys, you're pretty much all we have for the duration. I check to see why the battle of Emden is taking so long, and see that preaching a check of generals before battle is easier than actually carrying out such a check.



    I can't help but feel somewhat responsible. Early February brings some more unimpressive wins outside of my pockets in Germany and in South Africa, the only place I'm fighting the UK. The end of February sees the fall of Dortmund, as German interior provinces sometimes have level zero fortresses. March 6 brings two important wins. The Emden pocket collapses, costing the Germans 54,000 men. And Dusseldorf costs them another 36,000. If Germany and friends had maybe half a million men to start, I've taken out roughly 100,000 [I forgot to check what mobilization would have given them].



    The next day I win in Cologne, killing 28,000 while losing 19,000, and I have to chase the survivors. The next two days bring two more wins on the periphery, but combined I lose 50,000 and inflict only 35,000 casualties. In what I take to be a good sign, the UK is already spamming White Peace offers. It's not that good, however. The vast warscore needed for Hannover is multiples of what I've taken so far.



    By mid-March I begin to see the benefit of combining unimpressive wins with better wins, as I'm spreading out over western Germany pretty well.



    As March continues so do my victories, and the situation in the north looks pretty good as well. I check for possible access to France, and it too is deemed Impossible.



    April fools day brings two important pieces of good news. I control another German province, and I wipe out 72,000 German and allied men. The collapse of this pocket frees up even more of my men to turn the tide elsewhere, and they march to clean out my other pockets.



    April 3rd sees the fall of Koblenz, on the 9th it's Bremen. Germany is being overrun!

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  8. #88
    First Lieutenant Vaya con Queso's Avatar
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    If you added a tiny wargoal (humiliate, for instance) against the British, would you then be able to sign a separate (white) peace with them and get them to butt out of your war?

    Also, Argentine armies invading Germany from Argentinian Belgium with the goal of annexing Hanover (and possibly freeing Poland) is the purest essence of this game, and probably the coolest D-Day ever.

  9. #89
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Five: To Berlin!

    Vaya con Queso Add a wargoal, hmm. And thanks! I do enjoy Argentina being the bane of Europe, so far.

    Previously on "Last Tango" - The Argentine invasion of Germany has successfully ignored the UK thus far, and is progressing well.

    The invasion is going well enough to plan the kind of serious advance into German territory which is necessary for me to achieve the warscore I'll need to claim Hannover. The plan is looking good in mid-April 1916 with the conquest of Oldenberg and the annihilation of another 50,000 Germans and allies in Wiesbaden.



    Cologne falls. Siegberg falls. Dusseldorf falls. Granted, the provinces I have demanded are fortified and will take time, but this is looking good. The end of April brings an end to the battle in Cloppenburg, and to another 100,000 German troops. I did not keep close count, but my guess is that of the half a million men I faced at the start, I face maybe a third of them and the rest are dead or captive now.



    Granted, I did lose a good number of men, but since I started with roughly double the German force, losing 50,000 to eliminate 100,000 is a good bargain. I then successfully pocket the German allies in Munster, eliminating another 30,000 enemy. Minor battles see the defeat of even more Germans, and a satellite view of the battlefield begins to look pretty clean.




    Whatever Germany mobilized I have demobilized. Still, while the warscore needed is down to 61, I am well shy of 30. I'm going to have to hope that a combination of war exhaustion in the UK and unconcern with giving away German territory will get me what I want. Otherwise I'm going to have to occupy an awful lot of the country to win this. I set out to do that, when the first signs of Sauron's gaze appear in Germany.



    BEF? Apparently you can walk from India to Berlin. Who knew? I begin my occupation of Berlin, and send as many men forward as I can to face the incoming Brits. May they trickle in piecemeal. By May 22nd I am preparing my first UK pocket of this war.



    I check to see if perhaps the Russians won't give us safe passage along with the UK - fair is fair - but they obstinately refuse. I silently vow to fight them again, and soon. Which I was going to do anyway, yeah, I know. Cloppenburg falls at the end of May, and at the beginning of June I chase some British interlopers from Berlin itself. The 25,000 Germans who inexplicably showed up in Lagos are defeated and chased to Benin. A minor win in Saarbrucken reminds me how annoying it is to have Germany with access to France. In mid-June I decide to try my naval force against the Germans to see if some additional warscore won't speed things up, and to test the waters. I am coping pretty well with the British Invasion, and the odd German recruits.



    On the 19th I take Korbach. On the 20th the Stendahl pocket collapses and I eliminate 33,000 British arrivals. Lagos is a sideshow, still, but with the Germans dispatched, I now fight British soldiers there. July sees me trap the annoying French-border-area Germans in Bavaria. A check on the peace deal shows that I have reached the +25 limit for battle score, giving me 26 of the needed 59 warscore. I cover all the Hannover provinces, but it's taking forever with mostly level 4 forts. On the 6th of July the 25,000 French-border Germans are eliminated. The seventh sees the fall of Detmold, and the ninth the fall of a British province in South Africa. The victories are coming, but they are not adding up. On the 13th I pocket another 25,000 Brits in Halle, Germany, but that still leaves 125,000 enemy in the Berlin area.



    I note the absence of Gas Attack in the Cottbus fight. Maybe Rojas has scruples?



    The end of July is an eye-opener. I see nearly 250,000 enemy in the Berlin area. This could get to be a serious problem. The AI may take ages to bring reinforcements to bear when it sends them walking to battle, but when they begin to arrive, then tend to continue to arrive for quite some time. Sauron has millions of orcs with land access to the battlefield and his arm has grown long.



    I check to see how soon my most advanced pocket will free some troops to deal with the newcomers, and I see that another general chooses not to use gas, or there's something at work that I am missing, or my tech advantage has vanished because my enemies can defend against gas attacks.



    Another 20,000 Germans are killed or captured in Fulda, but my Naval Gambit comes to nought when it turns out that my modern warships are no match for German fleet numbers, even though the Kaiser's brother-in-law is the worst enemy military leader I have ever seen.



    Since I am not retreating directly into a fight, I take my best army out of the Pritz battle to reinforce one of the nearby fights, which are not going well.



    Just in time!

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  10. #90
    First Lieutenant Vaya con Queso's Avatar
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    10000+ Industry score and still in 4th place? I'd like to see the status of the other great powers, as well as a map of the world, if it's not too much trouble.

    Are you planning to stay under the BB limit for the rest of the game, or are you feeling confident enough to go on a rampage? Bolivia and Paraguay are clearly asking for it. (though it would be smart to wait until you have a truce with the UK before trying that, if you decide to)

  11. #91
    Second Lieutenant CromagnonX's Avatar
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    I check to see how soon my most advanced pocket will free some troops to deal with the newcomers, and I see that another general chooses not to use gas, or there's something at work that I am missing, or my tech advantage has vanished because my enemies can defend against gas attacks.
    The Hermans must have developed Gas Defense (5% chance per month while fighting gaseous enemies). Still, you're doing well. Do the Brits still succumb to Gas Attacks?
    Cheers,
    Cromagnon

  12. #92
    People's Commissar of the Navy Demi Moderator Avindian's Avatar
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    That looks incredibly chaotic; I don't think I've ever seen that many troops in one place in a Vicky 2 game outside of China!
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  13. #93
    General morningSIDEr's Avatar
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    Curse Britain for forever complicating matters! I think it may be time to nominate a small nation as 'Frodo' so that Britain's attention moves from Argentina. Or perhaps begin calling a large nation 'the Fellowship' to distract her.

    Still, the war seems to be progressing quite well despite the reinforcements now flooding in from India, I have to feel for the poor troops who marched that far. A pity though that gas attack now seems nullified. A pity too that you cannot recruit a few dozen oliphaunts.
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  14. #94
    Historically plausible Dewirix's Avatar
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    Hmm, Britain's units have changed their sprites, which means that they've now got bolt-action rifles and are thus much more dangerous on the attack. On the plus side they're hopefully taking a lot of attrition wandering so far to get into the battle with you. If you can meet them in provinces with decent fortification levels (which Germany seems to have in abundance) then you should still be able to do fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by morningSIDEr View Post
    A pity too that you cannot recruit a few dozen oliphaunts.
    The Megapachyderm invention isn't available until Fantastic Selective Breeding unlocks in 1918.
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  15. #95
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Six: Caution - Genius At Work!

    Vaya con Queso I think there's a GP table in here before too long. Second through fourth are pretty close, too. On BB, I'll break it eventually is my guess, but not soon, and probably not in South America. I'd like to finish Belgium, and I'm not waiting 20 years for BB to reduce.

    CromagnonX Yes on Gas, the Germans can handle it, the Brits still cannot. Took me a while to figure out why it was on and off in the same war.

    Avindian It is crazy, but fighting isn't half as bad as cleaning up.

    morningSIDEr Anything to frighten Sauron would be good. I'd love to see Oliphants.

    Dewirix You mean the pretty pictures convey information? I should try to keep that in mind.

    Previously on "Last Tango" - once we get the Germans well in hand, the UK showed up to make Argentina's life difficult.

    There is obviously something I don't get about when gas is used and when it is not, but I am pleased to see my forces, badly outnumbered, decide to use Gas Attacks again against the UK, aka Sauron. [I realize later that it depends on the nationality of the primary enemy leader. When I face Germans, I get no gas attack because they have the tech to defeat it. The UK does not, so when a UK general is in charge, I get to use Gas.]



    The battlefield is looking bad at this point. My attempt at a naval foray in the last chapter proved that the water is not fine, even if the UK navy stayed in port (which from the blockade score is almost the case). I begin to seriously contemplate pulling back into a defensive perimeter and hoping that the occupations I am working on, especially the provinces in my wargoal Hannover, will put me over the top when they finish. I also decide to take some chances. Remember a few wars back when I wondered whether widening the war would let me cut a peace deal with my primary enemy? And more recently the UK demand on me allowed me to engage in separate peace negotiations with Russia (true, they never panned out, but they were possible). My theory is that, if I cannot demand of Germany the state I demanded - because that would end the war - I'll demand something else of someone else. Then, the war would not end if Germany caved in. I'll make a separate peace to grab the main goal, then later WP out and forfeit the new, fake wargoal. So I demand the Humiliation of Bremen (which does not have any scary "Protected By" countries).



    It works! Sort of. I am now permitted to engage in separate peace negotiations with Germany. Unfortunately, the Germans have not been seeing the same war I've been seeing.



    The trouble, as in the war against the Russians, is that my battles do not count against anyone but the war leader. Nevermind that until recently my battle victories have killed Germans, they think all I have done is snatch a few minor provinces. <sigh> Well, back to War! I guess I'll have to convince the UK to let me have part of Germany, right? I conquer Lauenburg, and then, like Johnny Carson of old, have a good laugh at my own expense.



    That's it man, war over! Does anyone know, beyond the obvious timing, whether France entered the war solely on account of my semi-DoW of Bremen (who I was already fighting!). I have since checked to see if France was at Friendly with Bremen. She was. Oops. Timing is everything. Important safety tip - check that before you DoW or even add a wargoal. I suspect, without knowing, that this is the only reason I lost the war.

    Well, I may be stupid, but when this happened I cut a deal with the war leader, who was now France (France took over war leadership from the UK, who is Rank #1 overall and far and away the most powerful country militarily - how does that happen?), and arranged a White Peace. So the whole war was for nothing.

    Now, as I understand things, a GP can enter a war on behalf of another GP to preserve the status quo. At times I think this is what France did, hence the message that France intervened in my war to take Hannover, it was defending Germany and the status quo. On the other hand, given the timing, I generally think that France intervened only as a friend of Bremen, and the message reads the way it does simply because that's the name of the war. If I'd been anexxing Cambodia, and France was hostile to Cambodia, and I added a wargoal against Bremen, France would join the "War to Annex Cambodia", regardless of the reason she joined. A firm explanation in the announcement would be nice. I may do some checking around, but any reader explanation would be welcome.

    Ok, when I say "only reason that I lost the war" what I mean is, only reason that I lost the war when and where I did. I suspect that I lost the war the minute I started it over Hannover, or possibly when Sauron joined. If I had DoWed with a goal of a (less valuable) Polish state, my original Mission from God, the warscore needed would have been far lower than 65. What I have learned from my wars is this: that +25 Battle Score cap is extremely important in any fight against a major power or serious alliance. Your province captures will rate little or nothing in the grand scheme of things. Rack up your +25 Battle Score, demand something 20-30ish and be happy with one state. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    As I begin to plan my future wars, and it'll be two years before I can begin again (and the game is winding down!), I'm concerned that I will not be able to beat the UK again by enough to win a big war. I'm not keen to try, and here's the reason. Beyond the +25 Battle score, nothing counts against Britain, not for much anyway. When a country owns half the earth, taking a few provinces is almost meaningless. Heck, it takes a while to get your province captures to count for more than the blockades, getting you back to your +25. So every war against the UK is working hard to get your battle score, and then hoping it's enough, because you have to take half of Europe to get another +25. Oh, and the UK has five million soldiers and more ships than you. There is that. But mostly it's that you can conquer dozens of provinces and not get to +30.

    I have a few choices. One, I could DoW Russia and attempt to do directly what I should have done before, free Poland. Two, I could DoW Austria, on the theory that big scary Argentina made the Frenchies (who are allied with Austria) back off once before (in my first Russian war), and I can do it again. True, the French just now DoWed me, or intervened, but that's when I lacked China in my war and their side already had the UK. Will they fight me solo, with China (nominally) on my side? Third, and looking likely as I type this, is that I try for an indirect war against the Russians. I DoW Sweden, hope that the Russkies come in, then annihilate the 2,000,000 Russians and occupy virtually the entire country. If I did that, by the time I added a wargoal of freeing Poland, I'd have amassed such a huge warscore that I could get what I wanted even if the UK intervened. Of course, Russia could abandon Sweden, or someone else could intervene (I have yet to check the Swedish relationship chart).

    Sorry for having a war like a shaggy dog story - really long build up and stupid ending. I should never have gone for Hannover, free CB or no.

    To paraphrase Ed Wood, "my next war will be better!"
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  16. #96
    Major brycef's Avatar
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    Isn't Hannover a puppet of the UK? I'd check for that also next time. You can sphere puppets of others (which the Germans apparently did), so it is not evident unless you check for it. I think that is why the UK intervened.

    You're also right about checking diplomatic relationships. I've gotten nailed that way before also when attacking a country that I didn't do my research on before DoW. Tough war, but then again you always did say you wanted to stupid wars on occasion during this AAR. :-)
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  17. #97
    Commissar BootOnFace's Avatar
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    Good choice. Cut your losses. You can't just walk into Mordor.
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  18. #98
    General morningSIDEr's Avatar
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    A pity France foiled your cunning ploy, they rather seem the Saruman of that war! A pity things turned out as they did, but it made for a great read. Hopefully now you get a chance to draw Russia into war and free Poland before the end.
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  19. #99
    Second Lieutenant CromagnonX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BootOnFace View Post
    Good choice. Cut your losses. You can't just walk into Mordor. One does not simply walk into Mordor.
    Ahem
    Cheers,
    Cromagnon

  20. #100
    Ask how many Divisions I have! InnocentIII's Avatar
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    Chapter Twenty-Seven: The Third Russian War

    brycef Hannover is owned by Germany, it's the name of the state I claimed, not a separate puppet, though I probably only said that three chapters ago when the war started.

    BootOnFace But Mordor has no trouble walking to me!

    morningSIDEr Yeah, although I decided to just go whack Russia again directly. I had rejected DoWing the UK or adding a wargoal because I feared bringing in all her many allies, obviously that didn't work out.

    CromagnonX

    Previously on "Last Tango" - A long war against the NGF, in which I wiped out their army, ended in a White Peace for two reasons. One, I started the war demanding the 65-peace-value state of Hannover from Germany for myself. Two, I added a wargoal against Bremen to allow separate negotiations with Germany, which worked, but also brought in France. For what shall it profiteth a man if he gains separate bargaining power yet loseth the whole war?

    Well, as Tolkien said of "The Return of the King", the title here gives the game away, doesn't it? Here's how we get to the Third Russo-Argentine War. In the last war, vs Germany, I ended barely hanging on vs the incoming British forces, well on my way to circle-the-wagons mode. I proved in that war that I'm not ready to fight at sea against Germany, much less the UK. I need to use navy to transport troops for the start of a war and then ensconce them safely in a port. Having been deprived of not one, but two wargoals, Argentine militancy allows me to reap the benefits of defeat: my first political reform opportunity in quite some time.



    I take Weighted Wealth, for reasons you'll see from this chart.



    Democracy is all well and good in the abstract, but the prospect of a socialist Argentine government is even worse in game than in real life (in real life I don't live in Argentina!). I'm happy with what my voters have given me so far, but I don't want them changing things. Moving closer to all-people's (conservative) ideology is therefore a good thing. I'm below 18 in Infamy, but I really need to recover from this war. I have an army in European Turkey which has just barely recovered from the last war with Russia. In Belgium I have roughly 600,000-700,000 [sorry, I did a manual check but did not write it down] from the starting one-million. I have 805 brigades, and I give orders to recruit 250 more. However, some of these are in too-long neglected provinces (20+ brigades available) which will take five years to recruit their last infantryman. Where are those Regimental Centers when you need them? I have 200 ships, I order 200 more, though many are just transports to replace my losses.

    A Comment on Ship Repair - it appears that ships repair faster if taken to different ports. It seems as though only the top four (?) damaged ships are worked on at all. This makes perfect sense in terms of realism, but if this is what actually happens in game terms, it requires the player to break up his fleets into many smaller units. This strikes me as a bad choice. I'd prefer that the game look at a nation's overall ship repair capacity and give at most a small advantage to going through all that micromanagement. If I have 200 damaged ships and fifty ports, does V2 really want to require me to manually scatter them around the world? Again, assuming I understand the process.

    Here is a shot of two different things. On the left, see one of my more badly damaged armies. That's what I mean by a long recovery time. These guys won't be fully replaced for years. I suspect that the recovery time for armies might be similar to navies, which would be sad if true. In any event, in some months these brigades add only a dozen men each, even where the relevant Pops still support the number of brigades I have.



    On the right is the cost per day of my supplies. I spend 14,000 per day on barrels! Fortunately, I'm paying only myself, that is Argentine industry. No one else makes Barrels yet. This would presumably be so high because I am repairing all my damaged tank units, plus the new purchases. In better news, the NGF has 16 brigades, confirming that I pretty much wiped them out. Hey, Austria! Wakey-wakey!

    The last thirty years I may be the only one to start any serious wars. I feel so German.

    In February 1917 I discover Psychoanalysis, which will speed reinforcements as people rush to the front to get away from their shrinks. I notice that my Russian state has a tiny border with Austria, and seriously consider DoWing Austria, since the Austrian state on their side of the border is a legitimate target for a Free People CB to create Poland: East Galicia. On the other hand, a look at France and Austria shows them with Military Scores of 2380 and 1380 respectively. Russia and Germany are both under 200, while I'm around 2600. I realize that scores aren't the best way to gauge real power, but with numbers this disparate, they're good enough. More importantly, I'm not at all certain to scare France off the way I did in my first Russian war. Plus, while Austria and France both have 170-ish brigades, I'm sure they can mobilize many more, with good tech (France anyway). Finally, I have to expect French access to Germany, which means they are all within easy walking distance to the battlefield. I'd prefer to fight the Russia-Germany tag team a bit longer before taking on fresh enemies.

    I have a fairly uneventful couple of years while I wait for the next war. I can DoW Russia, and hopefully bring in China, in August 1919. I discover Behaviorism in June 1918, and choose not to pick the next tech to give me a jumpstart on the last Tactics advance when it becomes available in 1919. As the last 100% Tactics boost, this will be the least effective, but I'll fight the next war with an advantage over all my enemies. In a September revolt, the Anarcho-Liberals make an appearance, taking it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week, with all the decision of that officer ratified at a special biweekly meeting, at which they are all shot dead by my troops. May 1919 sees me grab Great War Experience (+100% Tactics), three months before I start the next war. I'll complete Army Divisional Structure (+5 ATT) March 1920, probably too late to mean anything. In July 200,000 men are loaded from Belgium, headed back to St Pete. It's not spring break, but it is time to party.



    My target is Rovne, a chunk of Western Russia, which will form the core of a newly revived Poland, as displayed by my mad skillz. Trying to avoid two disasters, I boost relations with China to 124 and the UK to -46 just before I DoW. I pay a mere 3BB for the DoW (it was 4BB and -20 Prestige when I still had a year left on the truce with Russia, iirc). On August 8, 1919, Argentina declares war on Russia for the third time. My armies will split further once they are inside Russia, but the initial invasion is complex enough sending full armies everywhere. Two badly damaged Belgian armies are in the Albania area to recover. I hope to use them later on.



    I then remember to set my stockpile to 100%. Syd Field would have put that earlier. My income and expenses are now ~65,000 a day. Let me say, for the vast dynamic range that Vicky 2 sees, from the smallest countries at the beginning of the game, to the major powers a century later, that it does quite a good job of making this stuff seem real and be reasonably easy to handle. I remember when a few pounds a day were critical to my finances. Now losing 10,000 a day will only worry me if I keep it up for a couple years.

    We all choose up sides, and nobody picks Italy again.



    Well, I can't say this is a huge surprise, fighting my third war against Sauron. One of these days I'll plant 400 transports off Scotland, land 1.2 million men in the UK itself, and see if I can't free someone that they'll miss. Okay, maybe next game. Well, the last war was a land based slug-fest, and the UK has never invaded anywhere I care about, so this should be fine. As for Britain's Indian horde, there's no risk, there's no danger at all, when you have China on your side! On August 11th the USA cancels the access it had given us, saying "we do not approve of your methods!" We brush aside the 30,000 Russians in Korea pretty quickly and fan out. One Korea army is split up and sent across China to be forgotten in central Russia for the duration. I realize now that splitting an army doesn't reduce attrition if both halves take exactly the same path at exactly the same time. I also realize that really need to start treating Korea like I treat Johore: let the enemy occupy it, gives them something to do. I need to move those troops someplace more valuable. Hey, look, somebody whacked the beehive!



    I'd say I'm glad it wasn't me, but there is another beehive hidden in the dark that I did whack. I win in Odessa, but did not set up a pocket early enough. This will be something of a continuing problem, since Russia has access to Austria, and I of course do not. Nobody likes me. Russia also has access to Moldavia, so we go fight there. Moldavia is the new Belgium. Here's an odd shot.



    Not odd because Russia has 796 brigades, that's only a bit more than last time. It's effective to kill off regular army Pops, but when mobilization is 4% of the relevant civilian Pops, you could pocket them all every war and hardly make a dent, a point Dewrix has made. No, what matters is that China mobilized and now seriously outnumbers the Brits, and I outnumber Russia. I wish I'd reached this point ten or twenty years earler. The early wins against newly conscripted peasants go well. Look closely at this image.



    Who's number 3 now? Honestly, I had no idea until I saw that screenie that I ever hit #3, and while I've completed the war I have no idea if Argentina is still number 3 [ed - it's not, it's 1500 behind the USA]. There is a boost to MIL score when you're at war with all that extra spending. St Pete will spread out a bit more than this, but the Russian capitol is the new Odessa from prior wars - take a little land, then hunker down. Ain't gonna be no backup ("You said you called for backup" "I lied"). I didn't get a screenshot, but only my warships escaped from the Baltic when the Brits arrived, and not all of them did, I had one navy with 0 ships. This was no boating accident!



    Unfortunately I didn't have the numbers to pocket these Russian troops. Ironically, as we can see below, Krakow is fighting to prevent the establishment of a free Poland. Krakow always annoys me. At least the one-province German states all get wrapped up into a convenient package in most games. Krakow looks like a shard of broken mirror in the lawn that you can't clean up.



    It is a good sign, I think, that hardly a month into the war the UK has started the WP spam. White Peace offers typically happen when I reach the point where, in my opinion, the enemy ought to give me what I want. Still, sooner is better. On the 12th of September I take my first province. Still using zero-level forts, Russia? Thanks! The scene below is a common one for some time - Russian troops march from East to West over the top of my occupied provinces, and then heading down through neutral territory to attack my weak formations. The AI's willingness to march around robinhood's barn, in my mother-in-law's phrase, to get to a weak army, is something I need to remember.



    Mid-September, only one month in, and my warscore is 12, with a peace-offer value of 23. I'm not close, but that's not bad this early. This battle would have made a nice pocket, with 75,000 Russians. I'm working on them.



    By October I've taken two more provinces, and begun to pocket some Russians. As little as it matters to pocket conscripts at the end of the war, it matters quite a bit early on when you'd otherwise have to chase them down and fight them five times.



    On the 11th, two more provinces fall, though none yet are my targets. My warscore is all battles. On the 13th we see why I missed the fact that I went to #3, it's because I dropped right back to Rank #4. Ah well. Worse yet, we're fighting in a province which borders Austria and so those Russians will again escape. The 14th sees me take Rovne, one of my target provinces. Only two months into the war this will reduce the warscore needed to claim the state I am after.



    Things are going well, but we know from past wars that there are plenty more Russians on the march. Even the provinces I have taken are not truly mine.

    I follow Paradox on Twitter and have Johan's photo on my phone for Twitter messages. I also follow the Pope. When the Pontiff tweets, I see the picture and lately I wonder "yes, but is Johan speaking ex cathedra?"
    Check out my Vicky2 AAR: Last Tango in 1.3 - An Argentine AAR Favorite Gameplay AAR, Vicky1/2 2011 (Round 3) - Completed
    Five for Fighting - A Canadian HoI3 AAR WritAAR of the Week (December 11th - December 18th, 2011) AAR Showcase Week of 6/17/12 - Completed

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