• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
War, what is it good for?

In Crusader Kings II, hopefully you'll gain some titles and in the best of worlds, imprison or behead your enemy. In order to declare a war you'll first need a valid Casus Belli against your enemy(a CB held by a vassal or courtier will of course do as well). You cannot attack the vassals of someone, so if you want one of their titles you have to attack their liege. Also, unlike Europa Universalis III and Victoria II, once a war has started it cannot be extended by adding further wargoals or CBs.

Instead, each CB has three options scripted: Demand Defeat, White Peace and Reversed Demands. As an example, let's look at the Claim CB. This CB lets you attack people holding titles you have claims on. If the war is going well, you can demand that your enemy give his title to you and as a bonus you'll gain a small amount of prestige. If you fail to achieve your goal, you could sue for a white peace instead. You'd want to avoid this though, since signing a white peace gives you a prestige hit(you didn't achieve your goals, after all). White peace is still preferable to the reversed demand however, since if your enemy enforces this, you will both lose the claim and get a huge prestige hit.

CrusaderKingsII_War_2.png

While most wars will end in a peace treaty, this is not the only way they can end. Some CBs have effects that trigger when the leader of an alliance dies. An example of this is the Invasion CB, which is currently used by William against Harold. When the leader of the attacking alliance dies, the war immediately ends. Be careful when going to war with your old king...

Another part of wars is the warscore. Like our other games, you'll gain warscore by occupying enemy holdings(the capital is worth more, vassal holdings are worth less) and winning battles(in CK2, they are worth a lot of warscore). We've also added a warscore effect if the contested title is left with no controller change for some time. After three years(currently), warscore is slowly added to the person controlling the area. This means that it's now possible to win a war as a) a defender in a war by just defending your title or b) attacking someone, sieging down the title you want and then just stand still and defend those provinces. By the way, if you manage to capture and imprison the enemy leader(for example, in a battle), this automatically counts as 100% warscore. We've also removed all limits to warscore, so whoever reaches >=100% first by any combination of occupation, battles, controlling the correct territory and imprisonment automatically wins the war.

CrusaderKingsII_War_1.png

Last but not least we have tagged some CBs to be "hostile against others", for example the Invasion CB. The effect of this is that two parties contesting the same title will fight each other even if they are not at war. It might be better as William to wait a bit until Harald and Harold both have worn down their armies...

'Till next time!
Fredrik Zetterman
Programmer, Paradox Interactive
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Simply Awesome, i have very curious about Pope role.
I have two question:

1. So if i have conquered all the enemy, but in the last battle my leader being cought, they automatically won against me, or i have the possibility to negotiate in more profitable situation? The king is cought but his the country is healty and victorius, while the one of my enemy is occupied and in ashes.

2. Can i have more information about that?

Current implementation permits no negotiation if the alliance leader is captured. If he is killed however, the war will continue(unless scripted otherwise).

As for number 2, you will basically be able to fight everyone trying to get a hold of the same title. That means that if the King of Sweden, King of Denmark and King of Norway all declare war to take the crown of England, Swedish troops can siege Norwegian territory and fight Danish troops etc., even though none of those actions actually benefit them in their war against England.
 
How does the Invasion CB work when the target is king of several realms? Like for example king of both Sweden and Norway? Do you get both titles or just the one?

Also, I seem to recall something about vassals within the same realm being able to declare war on each other if they have valid CBs, without the liege interfering. Is this still the case?
 
Certainly. Note however, if you use the claim of someone else, they will get the title, not you. I think for most of those CBs you become their liege though(if the conquered title doesn't outrank your own)

Oh, that's sounds perfectly fine. It'll be plenty of incentive to get that fellow on the 'throne'.
 
Current implementation permits no negotiation if the alliance leader is captured. If he is killed however, the war will continue(unless scripted otherwise).

As for number 2, you will basically be able to fight everyone trying to get a hold of the same title. That means that if the King of Sweden, King of Denmark and King of Norway all declare war to take the crown of England, Swedish troops can siege Norwegian territory and fight Danish troops etc., even though none of those actions actually benefit them in their war against England.

Well i see, i think that maybe should be possible under certain condition the possibility for the alliance to choiche how act in a situation like the capture of their leader, becouse not ever cut the head of the enemy forces mean Victory, if the war continue with death of the leader is also possible that the son of the leader or his allies, ignore his trouble and continue the war (also to restore or free the leader cought), but well probably are complicated mechanism.

Thank for the response to the other question, now is very clear.

I have a last question, in the demands we have monetary reparations?
 
Makes sense, why would the holy roman emperor allow a pesky french count to steal his vassal's title? It wouldn't happen.

Well because he is busy fighting someone else, he don't care about this disloyal vassal and its not the good timing for a war against France.

So if I duke of flandre want to attack the count of holland I need to declare war to the emperor with my claim against the count. Right?

1-But can I ask for peace to the count?
2-And if the King of France support me did he take the lead in this war or am I still able to sign peace?
 
Well because he is busy fighting someone else, he don't care about this disloyal vassal and its not the good timing for a war against France.

What do you think the Holy Roman Emperor's primary duty is if you don't think it's to defend the empire? If you attack the Holy Roman Empire (which is what you're doing by attacking territory within the empire's boundaries), you should expect justice in the form of retribution from the Holy Roman Emperor.
 
Makes sense, why would the holy roman emperor allow a pesky french count to steal his vassal's title? It wouldn't happen.

That might be regulated by laws, I would think. Not everything has to be an international incident, or does it? ;)

I like the possibilities of capturing the king and forcing a favorable peace. Now what happens next? If it is an invasion or family conflict, can you continue to imprison him or exile him? Will he keep his claim? I am thinking of the three-way fight for Castile-Leon-Galicia that starts in 1066 (the other great succession war possible at game start).
 
What do you think the Holy Roman Emperor's primary duty is if you don't think it's to defend the empire? If you attack the Holy Roman Empire (which is what you're doing by attacking territory within the empire's boundaries), you should expect justice in the form of retribution from the Holy Roman Emperor.

Yes I agree and if you attack one of his vassal the emperor should be able to come to his rescue if he can but if for some reason he can't, he should be able to avoid the fight like it happen in CK 1.

Actually I'm playing a game as King of Jerusalem and I get this vassal count of el something and Nevers, he lost el something to Egypt and before I take it back England attack him for the county of Nevers. Well I was quite busy and I let him down coz I wasn't really for a War in England while Egypt surround me and because it didn't feel historic but its an other topic
 
Yes I agree and if you attack one of his vassal the emperor should be able to come to his rescue if he can but if for some reason he can't, he should be able to avoid the fight like it happen in CK 1.

The AI in CK1 always dow'ed you when you declared war on a vassal, it didn't matter if it was wise or not.
 
Really.......
Well I tend to attack when my enemies liege is busy and try to sign peace as soon as i get what i want so I never realize ^^
 
I can see some epic civil wars being born out of this feature. An old English king with many sons dies and the eldest son is a very weak ruler. All of the sudden all of the King's sons, mostly dukes and counts, gain a claim to the Kingdom of England and go to war against the legitimate and each other.
 
The low-level warfare should be interesting if it does not always escalate. I think that your vassals can fight it out without you getting dragged in or forced to choose a side in CK2. Yet Tegus has said on this DD that you cannot declare war on a vassal, only his liege. So I wonder about vassal-vassal wars that cross national boundaries (for lack of a better term). So can a Scottish baron attack an English baron without making a great big war over it?

The asserting claims on behalf of your vassal or courtier is like in CK1, only bigger. And the invasion CB sounds really powerful, as Tegus describes it in post #7. I was wondering how William of Normandy will be able to reward his followers with English baronies and throw those Saxons off their lands.

The regular claim CB sounds like we will have a lot of limited wars. Please make it so that you don't have to totally destroy the enemy's levies and occupy all of his land before he will submit to a peace. This is a problem in EU3/DW. If the Third Anglo-French War is over possession of Rouen, and France has won a few good battles and the fleur de lys flies over Rouen, the AI should be ready to hand over Rouen once a few counties are colored blue. A similar war in DW requires nearly total victory before the AI England will offer a white peace or 5 gold.

I wonder how long truces will hold? The mention of hostages in the first screenshot is intriguing, as well as betrothals being a reason preventing a DOW. Will that extend to fosterlings and marriages (not just betrothals) as well? How that plays out will definitely affect strategies for ruling over your vassals and relations with the neighbors. I guess hostages will be discussed later.
 
Last edited:
Makes sense, why would the holy roman emperor allow a pesky french count to steal his vassal's title? It wouldn't happen.
Because he was busy somewhere else? Or didn't like the vassal that much? Or couldn't afford to raise an army? Or simply didn't care?

Medieval Europe was full of such small-scale local wars. What it was not full of were massive clashes between the Kings of France and Germany. Often the latter two were simply titles in name only and were in no position to launch costly wars in the defence of some insignificant border count. Really, the idea of some minor count declaring war on the Holy Roman Emperor, and thus kicking off a pan-Christendom conflict, is just silly

Of course the root problem here is that kingdoms were not the basic unit of the Middle Ages. That is, the real business of governance, war, diplomacy, etc, was conducted at the levels of duchies or even below. Kingdoms were, in the initial period of the game at least, more akin to confederations of equals than nationstates. Which is why it doesn't make sense to be declaring war on Germany instead of, say, Baden. Dukes and counts should be able to fight their wars in peace (ha ha). That's not to say that kings might not get involved but it should definitely not be automatic
 
Last edited:
At the time being, yes, but it's a bit too powerful at the moment so we will need to test some alternatives to balance it a bit.

Let this give a prestige loss, but a piety boost ... that might work to balance it.
 
question: if I have a claim on duchy X which has vassals, will I when I gain control of duchy X also gain the vassals under him?

PS anyone else dissapointed by the starting quote? a certain quote from another game which is named after radioactive waste comming down after a nuclear explosion would have been much cooler :D