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Thread: Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 11 - War

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    Deluxe programmer Paradox Dev Team Tegus's Avatar
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    Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 11 - War

    War, what is it good for?

    In Crusader Kings II, hopefully you'll gain some titles and in the best of worlds, imprison or behead your enemy. In order to declare a war you'll first need a valid Casus Belli against your enemy(a CB held by a vassal or courtier will of course do as well). You cannot attack the vassals of someone, so if you want one of their titles you have to attack their liege. Also, unlike Europa Universalis III and Victoria II, once a war has started it cannot be extended by adding further wargoals or CBs.

    Instead, each CB has three options scripted: Demand Defeat, White Peace and Reversed Demands. As an example, let's look at the Claim CB. This CB lets you attack people holding titles you have claims on. If the war is going well, you can demand that your enemy give his title to you and as a bonus you'll gain a small amount of prestige. If you fail to achieve your goal, you could sue for a white peace instead. You'd want to avoid this though, since signing a white peace gives you a prestige hit(you didn't achieve your goals, after all). White peace is still preferable to the reversed demand however, since if your enemy enforces this, you will both lose the claim and get a huge prestige hit.

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    While most wars will end in a peace treaty, this is not the only way they can end. Some CBs have effects that trigger when the leader of an alliance dies. An example of this is the Invasion CB, which is currently used by William against Harold. When the leader of the attacking alliance dies, the war immediately ends. Be careful when going to war with your old king...

    Another part of wars is the warscore. Like our other games, you'll gain warscore by occupying enemy holdings(the capital is worth more, vassal holdings are worth less) and winning battles(in CK2, they are worth a lot of warscore). We've also added a warscore effect if the contested title is left with no controller change for some time. After three years(currently), warscore is slowly added to the person controlling the area. This means that it's now possible to win a war as a) a defender in a war by just defending your title or b) attacking someone, sieging down the title you want and then just stand still and defend those provinces. By the way, if you manage to capture and imprison the enemy leader(for example, in a battle), this automatically counts as 100% warscore. We've also removed all limits to warscore, so whoever reaches >=100% first by any combination of occupation, battles, controlling the correct territory and imprisonment automatically wins the war.

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    Last but not least we have tagged some CBs to be "hostile against others", for example the Invasion CB. The effect of this is that two parties contesting the same title will fight each other even if they are not at war. It might be better as William to wait a bit until Harald and Harold both have worn down their armies...

    'Till next time!
    Fredrik Zetterman
    Programmer, Paradox Interactive
    Last edited by Captain Gars; 25-08-2011 at 17:31.

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    Colonel MajorMayhem's Avatar
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    first!

    And how will peace deals with the Mongols work under this new system, or do we get a DD just for that?
    Last edited by MajorMayhem; 25-08-2011 at 21:59.
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    Slacker Extraordinaire Zzzzz...'s Avatar
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    What's the difference between an Invasion CB and a Claim title X CB?
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    Modding Paladin RedRooster81's Avatar
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    Good to hear about CBs. So there is the claim CB, the invasion CB (is that when a disloyal vassal invites in an outsider?), and we have also seen the religious conversion CB on a screenshot for the Byzantine Empire going to war with the Duke of Rashka (IIRC). So what else will there be? Will there be a sort of honor war, especially for fighting within the same kingdom, say the Count of Artois dishonors the Count of Hainaut? Finally, will we be able to move our armies anywhere or within some limits?

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    Studio Manager Paradox Dev Team Johan's Avatar
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    I found out the HARD way that you may get imprisoned if you try to backstab your liege and declare war and then sign a peace to return to the fold..

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    We can't add multiple war goals? So if I want county X and county Y (and have a claim on both and both are in the same realm) I have to wage two separate wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    I found out the HARD way that you may get imprisoned if you try to backstab your liege and declare war and then sign a peace to return to the fold..
    That's awesome!

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    Deluxe programmer Paradox Dev Team Tegus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zzzzz... View Post
    What's the difference between an Invasion CB and a Claim title X CB?
    Invasion always targets the top-tier title of an independent realm. When you demand peace using an Invasion CB, you will get all holdings which you currently occupy(along with the top-tier title). In the case of William, he could conquer only the south of England and replace the barons there with Normans, while the northern part would still be his vassals, but Saxon.

    Invasion CBs are currently only granted by the Pope however.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tegus View Post
    Invasion always targets the top-tier title of an independent realm. When you demand peace using an Invasion CB, you will get all holdings which you currently occupy(along with the top-tier title). In the case of William, he could conquer only the south of England and replace the barons there with Normans, while the northern part would still be his vassals, but Saxon.

    Invasion CBs are currently only granted by the Pope however.
    This begs a Papal interaction DD next time. Or a how to create CBs.

    Also, regarding CBs. Please tell us we can work towards them and aren't forced to wait, for a once in a lifetime chance, to get such a CB land in our lap
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keinwyn View Post
    We can't add multiple war goals? So if I want county X and county Y (and have a claim on both and both are in the same realm) I have to wage two separate wars?
    It will depend on the type of CB you use. Currently a claim CB is for one claim only, and Invasion is for an entire country. We haven't yet decided how we'll handle multiple claims in wars.

  10. #10
    Kinda wary about some of these terms, so you can only get what you aim for in the war's beginning?

    Also, from the first screen, I haven't heard of this before but can you now play as a pagan? Or is that character Erik the Heathen a convert?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulyaoth View Post
    Kinda wary about some of these terms, so you can only get what you aim for in the war's beginning?

    Also, from the first screen, I haven't heard of this before but can you now play as a pagan? Or is that character Erik the Heathen a convert?
    With the Invasion CB, you get what you have occupied when the peace is signed.

    As for pagans, dev hax
    Last edited by Tegus; 25-08-2011 at 18:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezzezze View Post
    This begs a Papal interaction DD next time. Or a how to create CBs.

    Also, regarding CBs. Please tell us we can work towards them and aren't forced to wait, for a once in a lifetime chance, to get such a CB land in our lap
    No waiting required. Invasion CBs are granted by the Pope, Claim CBs are granted if you have claims.

    There are also multiple "permanent" CBs which are given to you if their conditions are met. For example, you get an Independence CB on your liege if he is independent, you get a Religious CB on people of other religious groups, you get an Excommunication CB if you share the same religious head and your target is excommunicated and so on.

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    Sergeant LaIsHeR's Avatar
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    Will some kind of guarantee be in the game? If i want to keep some Duke independent (if its my close relative I could secure my succession of the land for example) like I could do it in EU3? I dont see any kind of option like that in the menu

    Edit: and will we get next DD at start of September?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegus View Post
    As for pagans, dev hax
    Aww that sucks.

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    I see possibilities here for promoting limited warfare, if only one title can be claimed at a time, and you can only declare war on independent rulers, not vassals. I'm looking forward to how invasion CBs will work out, and if excommunication will be a free invasion CB for anyone of your faith.

    So anything on religious enemies, i.e., can you declare war on your pagan neighbors any time you want and keep what you conquer?

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    Field Marshal Te. Kenzo's Avatar
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    Simply Awesome, i have very curious about Pope role.
    I have two question:

    1. So if i have conquered all the enemy, but in the last battle my leader being cought, they automatically won against me, or i have the possibility to negotiate in more profitable situation? The king is cought but his the country is healty and victorius, while the one of my enemy is occupied and in ashes.

    2. Can i have more information about that?

    Last but not least we have tagged some CBs to be "hostile against others", for example the Invasion CB. The effect of this is that two parties contesting the same title will fight each other even if they are not at war. It might be better as William to wait a bit until Harald and Harold both have worn down their armies...

  17. #17
    (a CB held by a vassal or courtier will of course do as well)
    Nice! So this can also form a drive to have a certain fellow in your court just for the sake of his CB's/claims?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRooster81 View Post
    I see possibilities here for promoting limited warfare, if only one title can be claimed at a time, and you can only declare war on independent rulers, not vassals. I'm looking forward to how invasion CBs will work out, and if excommunication will be a free invasion CB for anyone of your faith.

    So anything on religious enemies, i.e., can you declare war on your pagan neighbors any time you want and keep what you conquer?
    At the time being, yes, but it's a bit too powerful at the moment so we will need to test some alternatives to balance it a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romtos View Post
    Nice! So this can also form a drive to have a certain fellow in your court just for the sake of his CB's/claims?
    Certainly. Note however, if you use the claim of someone else, they will get the title, not you. I think for most of those CBs you become their liege though(if the conquered title doesn't outrank your own)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Te. Kenzo View Post
    Simply Awesome, i have very curious about Pope role.
    I have two question:

    1. So if i have conquered all the enemy, but in the last battle my leader being cought, they automatically won against me, or i have the possibility to negotiate in more profitable situation? The king is cought but his the country is healty and victorius, while the one of my enemy is occupied and in ashes.

    2. Can i have more information about that?
    Number 1 is an extremely good question. If a King conquered another area, and then was killed by a falling brick on his way to the pub, the enemy would still lose the war. The King's son or brother or whoever would claim the throne instead.

    As for number 2, I think that, for example, two people are trying to claim the same throne, they are technically at war with each other until one side or the other claims the throne. That's because the object of both their wars is the same- and, thus, they have to compete against each other to claim it.

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