Royal Carnage - a CptEasy multiplayer AAR

[CptEasy]

Wow, guys. Great amount of interesting thoughts and ideas. I'll try and answer the main questiones.

Is the german defensive line really able to hold back the soviets? I kind of were expecting more progress on that front.
How are Hungary and the italian front in Yugoslavia going?
(I would like a overview over the eastern front if possible )
Any plans by Italy to move in the middle east and caucasus?

This is great, cant wait for next.

The Red Army got totally stuck on the awaiting German line in the east. Unfortunately, as Britt, I don't have any screens from that front. Also, The Soviet player hadn't reached the level on upgrades on his troops he was aiming for yet.

You will have an overview picture on the entire Soviet front in next chapter, rest asure, Filamu

What about that landing in Italy, won't the British run out of supplies rather soon without a port?

Well, supply-rules for amphibious landings are, as we have mentioned earliery, quite generous. But it is always a risk, of course.

I think it wasn't exactly that. Cpt wrote sth about a buggy NEGATIVE force requirement of breaking the NAP. Apparently, Germany didn't have any troops stationed at the SOV-GER border.

Yes, this is a crusial point, Cybvep. In SP you never get a problem with NO enemies at the borders - and thus the system with a procentage-relation between forces to determine if you can break the pact works fine. In MP it is quite commen to avoid having troops at the border completely and instead wait a little further back. A system based on procentage obviously screws up completely if one of the factors is zero. According to the rules, I think at this point of the game, the Red Army on the front "only" needed to be larger than the German frontline-force in order to break the pact. Well, The Red Army had like 75% of it's entire army on the border facing zero germans. Those odds should, to my mind, be enough to reach pass the limits for breaking the pact. Instead, the game suggested that the Soviet forces were like -0.5% of the needed strength. It seemed to us to be a "bug of zero" and we felt forced to circumvent it (but House Ruling the Red Army to wait an enire week before moving on the Germans. They didn't, however, give Italy this lucturey...

Well - feel free to shed any light on this. As we encountered it in the middle of the game we had to solved it "ad hoc" and it might not have been the best sollution. I honestly don't know.

I'm enjoying it as presented - MP is always different to SP and has to be enjoyed on different grounds. I'm also not so sure the Axis is finished. It'll be a long time before the US can really act, they've stalled the Soviet opening moves, France will collapse and that means the Soviet forces will be on the defensive in good infra provinces where the Axis have supply advantages - it could be rather hard for them to pull back with any ease. I'm not sure about Turkey - if the Soviets can grab Istanbul et al that both shores up the south flank and gives a threat to the Balkans - if the Italians hold on in the Balkans then Turkey is a threat to both the Caucasus and the Middle East

Even though the Greece attack seemed a big mistake to me, I still agree with Loki here. The capasity of Germany is stunning. In last game, we're I did a few serious misstakes in my initial planning as Germany, the outstanding amount of troops I managed to produced covered for the holes in my planning - and in the end my enemies buckled under the onslaught. Actually, as the left hand of Wehrmacht (the east front) managed to completely stop the Red Army, we feared what would happen when France crumbled. And yes, Turkey is a little bit of a wild card. As I am beeing fearful for my Iraqi holdings, Turkey is quite high on my prioity-list.

In this game (Italy should) forget about anything Naval (no research and no production anymore) - I was tempted to say "scrap the useless RM" but for the subs.

PPS
How often a week do you guys play and when is the next update?!

Many interesting thoughts there, Thelamon. It will surely be a good aid for next Italian player I'll just respond to a few of the things not previouly discussed.

Why do you think Italy should no try to reinforce their navy?

Our goal is to play once a week but we seldom manage due to time constrains. It's more like every 10-14 days and we play about 3 hours each time, which usually covers two months.... so each game takes at least a quarter of a rl-year. We'll see when I post next chapter. I would guess Sunday or Monday.




Cheers!

[Argaud]

I have to agree with Thelamon there. Italy alone can't cope with a player-controlled RN and trying is a waste of time. Giving up the navy means giving up Africa, but really, Africa is irrelevant except for tying up some British troops. The game is decided in Europe.

And yet, Germany's capabilities are trully incredible. It is perfectly possible for Germany to build enough modern warships to challenge the (mostly outdated) RN to the point the allies can't keep enough ships in the Mediterranean to contain Italy, and yet still have a giant land army. Such a situation will definitely do great harm to Great Britain, and doubly so when Japan joins the fun. /BUT/ this strategy needs to be decided as the game starts. Having Italy building ships and Germany ignoring the fleet sounds like a bad idea.

[Thelamon]

Many interesting thoughts there, Thelamon. It will surely be a good aid for next Italian player

Well I'm not speaking out of my arse here - the advice I tried to convey is based on my experience with a long standing MP group back in the day of HoI2/DD and later Arma.
(In HoI3 SF I can only claim extensive SP experience due to too many kids...)

Why do you think Italy should no try to reinforce their navy?

This applies only to the situation of the ongoing "Carnage" session.
The immense cost in tech/leadership and IC in trying to get a competitive surface Navy is an all or nothing decision, that has to be decided on by the entire Axis faction at the beginning of the campaign - see Argaud's post. (It should inklude a plan to link up the Axis navies etc.)
Investing halfheartetly in "some" surface units is just pissing away IC as the too few too little too late units will get sunk anyway.

-> In thís carnage session Axis Naval surface warfare is done for in the European Theatre. With the tiny remnants of GER navy penned up in the baltic and the huge RN+FRA+US N on the prowl. (And Daphne got butchered with his RM when trying to sortie already.)
-> no use wasting any more effort on fancy ships in this round.

ITA really needs to focus on staying alive!

Our goal is to play once a week but we seldom manage due to time constrains. It's more like every 10-14 days and we play about 3 hours each time, which usually covers two months.... so each game takes at least a quarter of a rl-year. We'll see when I post next chapter. I would guess Sunday or Monday.

Somehow the intensity of the AAR created the feeling that you guys play much more often
I still play once a week with my old MP group, nut none of them (but me) ever transitioned to HoI3/SF/FTM they still stick to HoI2 and play Arsenal of Democracy (if at all).
We all have kids, wifes etc. now so we just play lighter stuff like Company of Heroes, Warhammer etc. (to be more flexible with who attends etc.)

I really envy you guys! (I still remember the nights falling asleep while chewing on strategies for the next session. - Much better than counting sheep )

I have to agree with Thelamon there. Italy alone can't cope with a player-controlled RN and trying is a waste of time. Giving up the navy means giving up Africa, but really, Africa is irrelevant except for tying up some British troops. The game is decided in Europe.

And yet, Germany's capabilities are trully incredible. It is perfectly possible for Germany to build enough modern warships to challenge the (mostly outdated) RN to the point the allies can't keep enough ships in the Mediterranean to contain Italy, and yet still have a giant land army. Such a situation will definitely do great harm to Great Britain, and doubly so when Japan joins the fun. /BUT/ this strategy needs to be decided as the game starts. Having Italy building ships and Germany ignoring the fleet sounds like a bad idea.

I agree -
But Axis (GER - ITA) going for a strong navy is certainly not a "no brainer" and easily done! It is always a high risk as the IC and tech will be sorely missed in the Land and Airwarfare vs. strong human opponents.
(In single player everything is possible of course...)

[Argaud]

I agree -
But Axis (GER - ITA) going for a strong navy is certainly not a "no brainer" and easily done! It is always a high risk as the IC and tech will be sorely missed in the Land and Airwarfare vs. strong human opponents.
(In single player everything is possible of course...)

Right.

As I see the Axis has two options. Either they ignore the sea (bad for Italy and Japan) or they go all out to maim GB.

If they ignore the sea, they should still build NAVs to harass the Allies, and probably some subs. Sea invasions are going to be a serious problem but with air superiority the NAVs can cause huge harm to transport fleets and their protectors. Air superiority is a must, and perfectly possible if the Axis is not spending a single IC on surface ships. Port strikes whenever the allies are careless enough to put a fleet within range are a must, too. The saved ICs allow for a trully monstrous land army that should be able to defeat the URSS... except the Axis will need plenty rearguard units to fight off sea invasions. And a lack of fleet means no Sealion, and that is a big deal once the USA enters the war. What to do against GB and the US with no ships even if the URSS is down? Toss nukes? And what can Japan do?

Yes fleet. For Germany I would build 3 BCs just to raise the practicals. Then 3 BBs or even SBBs with 1940 techs. These ships, shielded by the BCs and the earlier semi-crappy navy, supported by NAVs and fighters, can easily murder any GB fleet unless the Brit player concentrates all the resources into an up to date fleet and match those ships. But the GB lacks the massive and ever-growing IC of Germany and is also behind in Leadership. So for GB have a "dream fleet" means a crappy army or air force, or mediocre both. Which means little or no support for France and not doing much more than keep naval superiority. And they will lose even that if Germany knocks out the URSS and invests all its monstrous Leadershio/IC into carriers. For Italy and Japan it means they can also spend into navy, knowing GB will never come agains them with the whole RN (because if they do: Sealion!). IMHO this is the best (or at least most fun for all players) Axis plan.

(Haha, did I sound know-it-all? Well, you guys have a lot of experience in this kind of multi-play game. Please correct me if I am wrong!)

[CptEasy]

Chapter XI, The Battle of France - Part VII












Human Players: Germany, Italy, Japan, UK, USA, Soviet









Recap: Not long ago, the war conisted of Germany attack France who was supported by Great Britain and a few minor comonwealth countries. Now, however, the entire world have joined the war within a few months - USA, Soviet, Italy and Japan. Global Carnage is awaiting...

p.s. And a big up to my parents in law who've given me an afternoon off from parental duties, resulting in an extra long chapter for you














April 26th, 1940

The Russian Front. In the north, the Red Army and Wehrmacht are fighting a sitz-krieg, not really doing anything. Neither have the force to dislodge the other. South of neutral Hungary, Soviet/Bulgaria are fighting a chaotic war with Italy/Greece/Turkey winning some but losing a little more. The Allies have extremely scares access of reliable information of the strength relations but from the Soviet side, the messages are thick with worry – bordering to panic. The British leadership hopes, however, that the attack on Rome will pull at the Italian attention.

Also, the Allies have a few more surprises up their sleeves…













April 30th, 1940

Red Circle: The Brits won the battle of the harbor. This forced the Italian fleet on repair here out in the Med and into a most unfavorable naval battle where they lost a few ships. With the port in British hands, the real attack on Rome could be initiated – theoretically…

Blue Circle: Italian forces scrambling from the south have managed to break the siege of Rome. With this, the hope of succeeding with the operation objectives are more or less lost.

Yellow Circle: The Italian rush to relieve Rome has left them weaker in other locations. The Americans entered the war-zone with un-opposed landing in Napoli. The only Italian division close by is far too weak to threat the American Army Corps.

Authors note: My planning of the operation on Rome was made in a rush and had a lot of flaws. I used too few troops and had not really thought about the air-space, which Axis soon came to dominate. I actually realized quite quickly the operation was doomed, but as American forces were inbound – secondary objectives sprung up…













April 30th, 1940

The Americans had also done a landing in Sicily, conquered a harbor and were heading for the other ports. With so much going on in the rest of Italy, the Italians had no chance of sending reinforcements this way.













May 10th, 1940

Paris still holds but France is falling apart. Still, they are not worse than that they have attacked and gained ground in the Italian mountains. That front, however, does not mean much. The Brits are still clinging on to Normandy, but as the Germans have been sneaking around the River Seine, they do not have any hopes of actually holding the ground – just delaying the inevitable.













May 21st, 1940

Sicily has fallen to the Americans after 1 month of battle. The Italians forces in Palermo did not yield easily, and also, the American equipment and training was inferior to that of the Italians. The Americans had not tried to cross the sound. They had simply no hope of winning an amphibious attack against the Italians.

On Malta, the Brits had massed an Army Corps, both including brand new divisions and some taken from northern Africa. They had a new mission coming up. It was not on a scale as an operation, but still an important one.













May 23rd, 1940

The British Operation in Rome had ended in a failure. Due to fierce Axis bombings the casualty-ratio was high. At one point it seemed three British Divisions would be surrounded and lost but a small scale amphibious rescue attacked opened up an escape route and two of the three divisions managed to retreat to the American sector – albeit in a very bad state.

Seen as an individual Operation, the attack on Rome was a disaster. As things turned out, it opened up for the Americans and hopefully relieved the Russians somewhat.

The Napoli pocket was still a bit weak to hold off a forceful Italian counter-attack, but with Sicily taken, the Americans had reinforcements inbound.













May 23rd, 1940

Italy was not the only place with Allied land-gains. In the wake of a stronger Russian offensive, smaller Allied units moved into Turkey. Initially, there were no Turks in the east but as they moved deeper into Turkey they showed up and the fast marsh was halted. Greek units had been deployed to support the Turks and by that, the Allied units came to a more or less complete halt. Still, they tied up a lot of Axis units, making it easier for the Red Army.

The Allied had little interests in Turkey as a land, as long as it was not hostile. So as long as the Russians won, all was well. The British units did try, however, to take some of the areas with some valuable resources.













May 24th, 1940

May was a very hectic month. With an amphibious landing, the British forces who had prepared in Malta, fell the Italians guarding the Straits of Messina in the back. The Italian forces were already in a sorry state. The Napoli-pocket had obviously cut of the supply line to these forces and they were short on food and ammunition. This would not be a long battle and another two Italian divisions would soon surrender. The Straits of Messina would soon belong to the Allies.

With this, the two divisions of Royal Marines had entered battle for the first time, letting the world know of their existence.













May, 1940

It was not free of risk for Royal Navy to operate in the Mediterranean Sea. During May they had several more clashes with the Regia Marina. The Royal Navy won them all, sending the various Italian taskforces limping back to port. In the Northern Tyrrhenian Sea the Royal Navy took its first losses with a destroyer flotilla and the light cruiser HMS Glasgow being sunk. The Italians took so fearsome losses, however, that they were no longer thought off as a major threat. They could still be a skulking menace and their submarines still sunk a few convoys once in a while, but they could no longer threat the British naval superiority in the Mediterranean Sea.

It seemed that the Americans sunk some Italian ships as well.

Being so aggressive on land, the Allies came to the conclusion that Italy simply did not consider the navy an important branch of the military. Probably their focus lay on land and air. Well… they would surely need to be strong on land now…

Royal Navy had no presence in Asia, letting the Imperial Japanese Navy roam free. The Americans, on the other side, had already had several naval clashes with them. Apparently, the IJN was a lot more formidable foe than Regia Marina and the Americans lost more than they sunk.

Authors note: The lack of reports from the Pacific is due to the complete lack of RN presence. Japan have taken some Allied territory in Indonesia so far, without any resistance. I did not even try to defend Hong Kong and Kuching.













June 3rd-6th, 1940

From the airports in Napoli the British naval bombers had the range to reach the remnants of da Zara’s initially so proud taskforce which now had gotten stuck in Viterbo with the Royal Navy prowling outside. A destroyer flotilla and the heavy cruiser “da Zara” was hit by torpedoes and sunk. Bomber command was not certain whether the light cruiser Alberico was finally sunk or not. The great battleship Andrea Doria was hit by one torpedo, but did not go down. The battleships had a very strong anti aircraft capability and the naval bombers took losses trying to hit them. Finally, Axis interceptors showed up and chased the already decimated bombers away.

Without any other screen or backup, the two battleships would have big problems to leave the port without being in serious trouble.













June 4th, 1940

The early summer was very intense around the Med. After securing the Straits of Messina, the British amphibious force sailed up to the Gulf of Taranto and landed around the city of Taranto – at the heel of the Italian boot. As the attack commenced, the Brits had to deal with starved Italian soldiers surrendering in heaps. Apparently, even if RN had quite few subs around for raiding missions, the Italians did not manage to supply their units south of the Napoli pocket. The battle of Taranto turned out to be a very short affair.

With the victory of Taranto, another 3 Italian divisions were captured and entire southern Italy in Allied hands. Allied intelligence is not entirely sure how much the Italians have lost, but it is about 9 or 10 divisions. Several of those might just consist of two brigades but it is still a considerable loss for Italy.













June 5th, 1940

Status of the European theatre of war

1. France is losing more and more. Paris is lost and the French government is on the brink of surrender. Soon, this battle will be over, the front dead and thus, the Germans will have powerful troop formations free to use elsewhere. When this happen, the Allies/Commies are in for dark days.

2. The French, however, have managed to take some provinces from Italy; the punch-bag of Europe.

3. American Forces have landed in Sardinia. Italy has about two divisions and a HQ here. They will not last very long. Still, the American soldiers are inferior so even winning battles take a lot longer than you could expect.

4. Southern Italy is secured. There are no Italian forces left here and the Allies are consolidating.

5.The Red Army was initially pushed back in the northern part of their Yugoslavian front but as since the British attack on Rome, things have changed and the Italians have retreated back to better defensive positions behind the river. Neither side seem to have strength to attack across the river.

6.Turkey is slowly losing, both from the east and the west. A Russian attack on Istanbul was aborted after painful losses, however. In the east, the Turks have troubles to stop the Allied/Commie invasion but the going is slow

Finally, and not surprising, the German/Soviet line has not moved. Nothing is likely to happen here before the fall of France – and then it will be a one way ticket eastwards, unfortunately. At least for the time being.

To sum up – Allies/Commies are winning or waiting on all fronts but the French front. When they fall, Germany will get the initiative and then anything can happen. We cannot do much more than try to find as good defensive lines as possible and be prepared for anything. Also, we can continue to nibble at the Axis and get small victories here and there. These gains will be valuable when the bleeding days comes… within short.













June 9th, 1940

Finally, after more than 9 months of the German attack on Belgium, France succumbs, with Vichy France being created instead. The BEF is making its last stand, losing Caen after a bloody battle. Now, they only try and orderly retreat through Cherbourg, with the Channel Islands as an emergency escape route. The Germans however, are more interested in moving elsewhere and they actually, during the next following days, refrain from attacking the retreating BEF, who is soon out of France. The year-long British expeditionary operation in France is now over.

Germany will now need time to reorganize their western forces. Some will be needed to stay, undoubtedly, but a majority will be sent to other theatres. Within a few weeks, Allied and/or Commie fronts will feel this new German surge in a most painful way – depending on the strategy of Wehrmacht. The ball is the German court…




..................................

[Wallienator]

Well, I guess they're going to free Italy first, then push onwards to Moscow..

[Midge]

How long will it take the Germans to Strat. Redeploy to the eastern front and Italy? If I were you I would wait 2 weeks or so until the operation is underway and then invade the Danish Isles or Brittany. That should cause some trouble.

[Baltasar]

My money is on the Romanian / Bulgarian front. A German spearhead could sever the Russian forward units and create an encirclement with probably some 20-30 Russian divisions. The Russians do not have the forces to relieve that front and the Germans do not need to reinforce the Italians just yet.

On the other hand it would be tempting to try and destroy the few forces the US have in Europe, as it would make things a lot easier for the Japanese, who actually should ignore the Pacific and instead attack Alaska and the US west coast. China is pacified and the Russians are not their primary opponent, the front can't handle that many troops anyway thanks to low infrastructure. Landing in the US would surely be a very real source of panic.

[Cybvep]

I just want to say that I've been suggesting an early powerful attack on Italy in most (if not all) CptEasy's games. The Mediterranean theatre is poorly balanced in general. There is practically no point in fighting in North Africa, the Italian navy is usually out of action in 1941 (or even earlier) and has little chance of even threatening the Allies as a fleet-in-being in 1942/1943 (not that the war last that long in most MP games, anyway). Hell, one could even attack Italian mainland without conquering North Africa - the Royal Navy can easily focus its power in this region and neither the airbase vicinity nor supply issues are much of a problem. We all know how amphibious invasions work in HOI3 - you can land anywhere in an instant and evacuate quickly when things go wrong. Moreover, even Italy itself seems less mountainous than it is IRL.

Still, it seems that the Axis regained the initiative. I agree with Baltasar here - the same issues that made a massive naval landing in the Baltic possible will make a Japanese invasion of the US West Coast much easier to conduct than it would have been IRL. Since the USA was AI-controlled, the country is probably poorly prepared for war.

[loki100]

well that was dramatic - with lots of actions and the initiative swirling back and forth. I'd go with Baltasar - the Soviets are really vulnerable to being pinched off in the Balkans unless they can clear out Turkey first

impressed to see you being able to use the US so early

[Hallongren]

If it would come to the soviets being pinched of in the balkans and not being able to clear out Turkey fast enough, then I sure hope the Russians have transports in the black sea, otherwise those units are gone.

[Baltasar]

Russia does start with zero transports in the Black Sea and even if they do manage to knock out Turkey, there would still be plenty of troops trapped in the Romania / Bulgaria region which could be cut off. Losing an army wouldn't be good for Russia right now, especially if Japan is also making the most of the Vladivostok salient.

I disagree with Cybveps assessment of Italy being that easy to knock out. In MP games, the German player can add the Luftwaffe to the struggle and the British do have to leave some forces behind to prevent an invasion of the British Isles. Hence, an invasion of Italy with lots of RN and French ships would give the Italian and German air forces a target rich environment. Add to that the rather uselss ASW capabilities of most ships, the few Italian subs could knock out a ships or two, too.

Britain can't really afford to concentrate everything in one spot, because Japan will come knock on their doors, too. If Japan is allowed to advance uninterrupted, they could conquer India with ease, which in turn would not only yet another front for Russia but also threaten the Suez Channel and thus mean Japanese troops in Europe by the end of 1940.

[Cybvep]

Hence, an invasion of Italy with lots of RN and French ships would give the Italian and German air forces a target rich environment.

If they have many NAVs, then that may be true. However, naval strikes are nowhere as effective as port strikes in HOI3.

the few Italian subs could knock out a ships or two, too.

Um... This rarely happens in HOI3.

Britain can't really afford to concentrate everything in one spot, because Japan will come knock on their doors, too.

It's not unusual to see only minimal forces in India, esp. in MP games. As long as the Allies have Suez, Japan is not a threat. That's how HOI3 works.

[Baltasar]

If they have many NAVs, then that may be true. However, naval strikes are nowhere as effective as port strikes in HOI3.

They do not need to throw in NAVs, although those would of course be more effective. In the end, anything with a payload would be useful. It's easier to repair planes than ships.

Um... This rarely happens in HOI3.

It does happen, especially if the ships have been damaged before.

It's not unusual to see only minimal forces in India, esp. in MP games. As long as the Allies have Suez, Japan is not a threat. That's how HOI3 works.

I noticed and I wonder why so few Japan player exploit this. It would greatly help the other Axis powers if the Suez could be seized and Japan can find oil in Persia as well.

[JDNIGHT]

I would have to say that this is shaping up to be a very exciting game. I don't know that I would want to say that either side is 'winning' right now. The gains in Italy and the US involvement in the war are offset by the vulnerability of the USSR in my opinion. This game could go either way, and the ball truly is in the Germans hands right now. Lets see what they do with it...

[Cybvep]

I noticed and I wonder why so few Japan player exploit this. It would greatly help the other Axis powers if the Suez could be seized and Japan can find oil in Persia as well.

It's not unusual to see Japan conquering India, either. The point is that it's not extremely damaging for the Allies, so they have no problem with shipping everything from India to Europe. It's obviously unrealistic, but that how it works. Again, if Suez is not threatened, then it's ok for the Allies. They can defend Persia as well, if they must. Japan will have big logistical problems past India, anyway.

It does happen, especially if the ships have been damaged before.

Do you really believe that outdated Italian submarines will be a threat to the Royal Navy, which most certainly won't lack destroyers? I have never seen a sub sinking a carrier in HOI3 and considering the number of ships the RN can bring, the Italians have no chance. Besides, even if the RN loses some ships, so what? They don't lack them and when the USA joins the war, the Axis will be screwed naval-wise, anyway.

[Baltasar]

I believe Italy has one or two level III subs, which did manage to sink a few ships in my games. Escorts are dangerous for them, but RN usually lacks the doctrines and equipment to sink them. Anyway, it's better to try than to save them and losing the country, isn't it.

[Cybvep]

Escorts are dangerous for them, but RN usually lacks the doctrines and equipment to sink them.

O_o It's very likely that the UK will invest in ASW techs in order to counter u-boots and it's not that the UK cannot afford upgrading its ships...

[Baltasar]

UK army did and still does significant fighting and leadership is limited. Cpt Easy did concentrate on eleminating the German navy, which indicates in my opinion that he is very afraid of being confronted in more than one theatre at a time. It also means that he most likely invested in surface doctrines, not ASW warfare. He did make a point that Germany does have very few submarines left.

[Cybvep]

How much LP ASW techs require? 2-3? That's it, I think.

Anyway, the Allies will have a hard time now, with Germany being able to move troops to the East and/or Italy. I am curious how far the Japanese will advance in Asia and the Pacific.