Royal Carnage - a CptEasy multiplayer AAR

[Broomstick]

Great start! I like AAR's starting with the war from the bat

[Baltasar]

The gamey part is the ease of which he intends to pull them out. Once the German knew about the invasion they would be bombing those transports hard and those Divisions should and would be trapped and destroyed but because the game lets you just load them up on transports even underfire without massive casualities there is no threat to them. I can't understand how all the Axis gamey tricks are house ruled out and the quick invasion/load on transport next hour has stayed.

Quoted for truth. Indeed, this operations might have been possible but would have entailed the risk of the whole German airforce being redeployed north in short order. Plus, even if the Brits had landed a unit in Rostock, the ships would not have left port. Indeed, all Axis gameiness is forbidden while unrealisitic operations by Allied forces have no limits.

[Maxyboy]

Dedicated player from this game group and Russian player in this game. No doubt, when looking at the house rules the reduction in Axis capacity stands out. Only few rules adresses Allied limitations (such as the important trade rules for USA and Russia and limitations to US movements pre-war). But there is a reason. In all our AAR'ed games you'll find that Axis is the winner and in our MP games we really need to even out the odds for them to be interesting. As we don't do modding (in which we could have adressed the landing-issue), we need to find easy-to-follow house rules. We try to keep the changes of rules between the games to a minimum as it is easy to tilt the game too much as well.

In this particular incident with operation Trebuchet, I think that a lot of the reason to the (so far) success is the novelty of the manouver. Probably future German players will find a way to prevent/counter this.

Anyway, interesting game ahead, so stay tuned.

[Cybvep]

Why no modding, though?

[Baltasar]

But there is a reason. In all our AAR'ed games you'll find that Axis is the winner and in our MP games we really need to even out the odds for them to be interesting.

Not restricting the Allied / Communist actions in any way doesn't feel fair, really. If the RN had conducted such an maneuver, they'd have risked quite large losses, both in ships and men, as there were very few anti-submarine techniques and very few AA guns available to ships at this time. You're not allowing Japanese ships in the Med / Atlantic for a reason, the same reasoning should apply to the Baltic for the Allies.

[ADEE1]

Not restricting the Allied / Communist actions in any way doesn't feel fair, really. If the RN had conducted such an maneuver, they'd have risked quite large losses, both in ships and men, as there were very few anti-submarine techniques and very few AA guns available to ships at this time. You're not allowing Japanese ships in the Med / Atlantic for a reason, the same reasoning should apply to the Baltic for the Allies.

Then there would be no reason to try to keep open the Baltic by defending Denmark, or shutting it off as the Axis. Sure it would have been difficult to pull off irl, but certainly not impossible/completely implausible like seeing the IJN in the med.

[CptEasy]

I just hope you're ready to pull that army back if the Danish front starts to go badly.

Yes. A successful German conquest of Denmark is of course my worst nightmare so I try to keep a close eye there and protect the Isles against sneaky paradrops.

Right into action At least the Poles are helping you in Koenigsberg...

It should be possible to hold Denmark for a while, given the fact that the Allies have naval superiority and the frontline is very thin in the region.

The whole plan is a bit risky, though, because if the Germans are fast enough, they will reach the British troops soon and with the help of Luftwaffe they might cause you some damage.

Agree with all you say The Poles are not helping in the actual attack though. Polish AI made some really stupid moves. They left Danzig without a battle for a start

Very good initial defense against the Nazis.

Nice East Prussian grinder. Perhaps with control of East Prussia, you can keep the Nazis in place, and push them to Berlin?

No way, man Brits and Poles can't really repell the Wehrmacht. Only stall them and make them bleed a little.

An incredibly gutsy move! I tried something similar in a UK game, but it ended badly to say the least Was the coast just undefended?

Yes. The German forces waited in Königsberg. I don't think Zid/Germany expected such a move. The beauty with MP.

The gamey part is the ease of which he intends to pull them out. Once the German knew about the invasion they would be bombing those transports hard and those Divisions should and would be trapped and destroyed but because the game lets you just load them up on transports even underfire without massive casualities there is no threat to them. I can't understand how all the Axis gamey tricks are house ruled out and the quick invasion/load on transport next hour has stayed.

I refer to Maxyboys reply which covers your comment nicely. I like to add that I previously have complained about the gamey-ness of HoI-rules covering amphibious attacks. But it is tricky to affect with House Rules in a nice way - and as Maxyboy points out - the Allies need all the help they can get.

from what you've posted about your ground forces i'd bet 1000$ that that's one of the things you focoused on

Well... future will tell...

Why no modding, though?

Due to lack of either time or knowledge - depending on who of us you refer too It's not due to lack of will.

Not restricting the Allied / Communist actions in any way doesn't feel fair, really. If the RN had conducted such an maneuver, they'd have risked quite large losses, both in ships and men, as there were very few anti-submarine techniques and very few AA guns available to ships at this time. You're not allowing Japanese ships in the Med / Atlantic for a reason, the same reasoning should apply to the Baltic for the Allies.

War is not fair Well, seriously, we are just trying to make it ballanced. The day the Allies crushes the Axis we can have a debate about it. That day hasn't come yet. I risk just what you described with this manouver. Nothings stops the Kriegsmarine to sail out in force supported by Luftwaffe.

I have to agree with ADEE as well. This is not at all the same thing, I feel, as the house rule about fleet movement restrictions for the Japs. But of course, it's all in the eye of the beholder.



Lastly - has Paradox done anything to make landings and amphibious attack more difficult in FTM?

[Leviathan07]

I think it's a nice maneuver and not unfair at all.

Re: Gameyness - this is a computer game, not a historical simulator

I followed the earlier AARs and I think the rule changes were necessary. All those previous MP matches were won by Axis so go figure...

[Cybvep]

I think that comparisons with Japan's actions in the Med or in Europe are a little far fetched. Amphibious invasions are definitely too easy in HOI3, but I want to remind you that the German player was caught with Rostock completely undefended and he seemed to be in a rather relaxed stance in the East. He was probably focused on France, so the surprise effect was crucial here.

[friget234]

omg mebeh I bet 1k$ too rashly

[TheBromgrev]

Lastly - has Paradox done anything to make landings and amphibious attack more difficult in FTM?

No

[Profetkaninen]

Not restricting the Allied / Communist actions in any way doesn't feel fair, really.

Well on contrary I think the Germans suffer to little supply and weather problems during Barbarossa. Different issue I know but regarding game balance that goes a long way for the axis. However, same relaxation of supply issues seems to be the case for the allied D-day so perhaps it's fair in a way.

But in the end of the day it's more important to have a balanced game than accurate mechanics.

[theFreeman]

Is the Molotov ribbentrop pact signed? or did the Germans skip it?

[friget234]

if germans skiped it then the attack on east prussia could do alot of signifigant damage

[CptEasy]

No

- but thank you for answering

But in the end of the day it's more important to have a balanced game than accurate mechanics.

So true - even if unaccurate machanics will allways bugg you

Is the Molotov ribbentrop pact signed? or did the Germans skip it?

No. Not so far at least We were starting to wonder by now, and grew worried, thinking of how last game turned out.


Hope to post new chapter later today.

[CptEasy]

Chapter II - Operation Trebuchet, part II










Human Players: Germany, Italy, Japan, UK, France, Soviet








Recap: The war has recently started. Germany declared war on Poland, and thus, the rest of the Allies. France attacked along the Maginot and later also supported Denmark who also became under attack by the fascists. UK launched Operation Trebuchet with the main objective to capture the German troops in Preussia and then pull out. The siege of Königsberg has begun and lasted for about two weeks.













May 22nd, 1939

The Siege of Königsberg was in on its third week. The 9 German brigades slowly fell back and left a city in utter ruins. The Brits were at their heals, giving them no rest, reaching them all around the city with mortars, naval artillery and tactical bombings. The civilian losses were awesome but the British troops had their objectives. These German soldiers had to either die or surrender to every cost.

Fighting in a ruined city is always a terrible thing. The battles were almost always at close range and hand-to-hand combat common. The enemy could be everywhere. Mines, booby-traps and unexploded bombs and grenades lay everywhere. Walls fell, roofs caved in and floors gave away. But the Germans did not give up. Small groups of defenders had fortified certain grand houses in the suburb, staying there in a hedgehog defense, tying down British forces. They main bulk of defenders had been retreating back to the city center, using the great Banhof in the west - The river and fortified islands in the north and east as the final frontline. The Brits had hard time pushing through here, losing a lot of men in the process. Instead, they launched a powerful thrust from the south, but it was a fairly narrow strip of land, which the German had prepared in a nasty way.

West of Königsberg, Wehrmacht was pressing on to relieve the city, but the Poles and a lone British division managed to slow down their advance fairly well. It looked like Operation Trebuchet might be successful.












May 24th-25th, 1939

The Germans in Königsberg was simply too few and had too little support. They had fought long and well but gave up a chill and rainy morning in the end of March. About 3000 had died in the fighting, but at least double that number had been lost to continuous bombing in the three week long siege of Königsberg. The 20000-odd survivors were marched to the newly captured ports and embarked transports to be shipped to camps in United Kingdom.












June 5th, 1939

Following the original plan of Operation Trebuchet, the Brits were to quickly retreat after the battle of Königsberg. However, a retreating division, which had been stalling the Germans together with the Poles all the way from Danzig, risked being cut off. A shaky decision led to half of the British force staying behind in Königsberg to keep the escape-route open for that last division. That division managed to reach Königsberg, but the troops did not manage to ship out until the Germans themselves attacked the ruin city.

The city, however, proved an equal good fortress for the Brits as for the German a few weeks earlier. This time, both sides used a lot of air force and while the fighters shot each other to pieces, undisturbed bombing-runs became fairly rare.

Poland is losing ground. As they still refuse to use their forces in the east, they are vastly out-powered by the Germans. They will not last long.

In order to try and overwhelm the Germans, a French army-corps of infantry landed in northern Germany. They soon met German resistance and did not reach far. Instead, a cunning German paradrop re-captured the harbor which the French planned to retreat too. In the end, the French managed to retreat after taking some painful losses. One division, however, did never reach the awaiting transports and they ended up in German custody.

The Danish front is peaceful. Neither side has forces to dislodge the other.

In the West however, the French have managed to breach the West Wall and smaller contingents of troops have spilled into German heartland. It is obvious Wehrmacht is strained – but it will not last long. Nothing can save the Poles and with them gone, the initiative will be all Germany.

During these days, Germany and Soviet signed the Molotov Ribbentrop pact.

Authors note: This actually came as a relief for the Allies as we were not entirely sure how we would fare better than in last game without the pact. Now, we are likely to be in for a much longer game - especially concidering the new HR for Japan...












June 11th-24th, 1939

In mid June, the Soviet Union annexed the Baltic States. This meant little to the Allies who struggled with the mighty Third Reich.

Soon thereafter, Poland fell with their leadership fleeing to United Kingdom. All British troops in Poland got away even if many a good man was lost on the beaches of the Baltic Sea. Operation Trebuchet was at large a success, eliminating 9 brigades of German infantry and two head quarters. Now, however, Germany would have the possibility to focus on Denmark, France and perhaps other European states.

Little more than a week later, the Japanese attack on Yunnan draw to an end and a puppet regime was put in place there. This was worrying indeed as Yunnan bordered to British Burma. The Japanese attack on Yunnan had brought up their threat on the US a good bit. All this would surely have serious implications in the future.












July 1st-2nd, 1939

Before Germany really had the chance to use the initiative after the victory over Poland, other nations declared their wars. Italy, not being at war with Allies, attacked Yugoslavia while the Soviet Union opened fire on the Fins.

Authors note: Even though the world war as such was in its early stage, the world was still full of smaller conflicts. The Axis had obviously been chosing a more aggressive strategy than previosly. That will give them more land but more threat.


....................................

[Zid]

Don't know... considering this as a gamey start, I'm rooting with Zid here... Although he's probably pushing for Denmark rather than Königsberg.

Welcome to team Evil, Baltasar. We are always hiring.

The gamey part is the ease of which he intends to pull them out. Once the German knew about the invasion they would be bombing those transports hard and those Divisions should and would be trapped and destroyed but because the game lets you just load them up on transports even underfire without massive casualities there is no threat to them. I can't understand how all the Axis gamey tricks are house ruled out and the quick invasion/load on transport next hour has stayed.

I most definately agree. Amphibious operations were very hard in WW2, and often planned for months before they were conducted. They are FAR too easy to pull off here, especially when they go wrong. When France invaded and left their only port undefended, they still managed to retreat out to sea. Playing Germany is hard if you have to protect your entire baltic sea coast. Divisions under attack should not be able to retreat to sea.

One other thing I found out had been changed was the sub war. Either the allies have come up with some kind of very good defense strategy, or it has been changed considerably since the last patch. I lost sub after sub, an unwelcome surprise.

All in all, a somewhat dissapointing start for me. At times, I was overwhelmed by defending the west front, attacking Denmark, defending from French invasions and attacking Poland. And on top of that, the air war. At least the southern front is safe.

[Cybvep]

Yunnan? The Japanese must be preparing for an attack on the Allied possessions in Asia. Italy's move is not very surprising, as Italy needs to expand in order to be useful and IC and resources from Yugoslavia will help them. Moreover, after they take Yugoslavia out, they gain the initiative in South-Eastern Europe and can attack Greece, Romania, Bulgaria or even Turkey should the need arise. I guess it's not uncommon to see an Italian rampage in the Balkans in MP - HOI3 Vanilla doesn't handle spheres of influence very well.

French progress in Western Germany! I don't know how long this situation will last, but losing provinces with IC and MP must be annoying for the German player. Not to mention the fact that he has to monitor pretty much every possible front expect the southern one.

And yeah, amphibious invasions are very easy to pull off in HOI3. Considering that one can land anywhere easily and evacuate very quickly if necessary, D-Days are nothing spectacular in this game, really.

[Duke of Awesome]

nice job with Trebuchet every division counts and now the Axis is down 9

[Baltasar]

nice job with Trebuchet every division counts and now the Axis is down 9

Down 3, with three brigades each.

@Zid: There is no such thing as team Evil, if you're familiar with Warhammer 40K you'll know that each side is good and all others automatically are evil. That said...

For the greater Good!