Werewolf CXII: Refugees

[Rysz]

OY indeed infiltrated... I suspected it might be possible, but after my death, the wolves apparently trusted him (and his "fake apprentice" joeb) too much?

I was the link between them, but I made sure the baddies had a way to contact him after I was dead, I wonder if they contact him directly, or used one of their cultists?

[johho888]

OY indeed infiltrated... I suspected it might be possible, but after my death, the wolves apparently trusted him (and his "fake apprentice" joeb) too much?

I was the link between them, but I made sure the baddies had a way to contact him after I was dead, I wonder if they contact him directly, or used one of their cultists?

I think drxav talked to him when drxav was already outed. Then the baddies counted on OY/joeb for parity but didn't approach them until yesterday when one of the wolves spilled the beans.

[randakar]

There is only one thing I could think of that could make the baddies even consider this... That the person who contacted me as the sorc, was indeed not the sorc, but used it to infiltrate the pack, but I really don't think that's the case.

Rysz, I figured out THERE WAS NO SORCERER on day 1. It was blindingly obvious, with 7 baddies in the Gelbe and all of them having sorcerous powers there just was no room for one.
I have NO idea why Rote didn't figure that out, and believed OY at all. EL tried something similar with Lemeard, and we fed him false information because we knew with 100% certainty he was lying. (No idea why Rote hunted him though - it did save us the trouble of doing that, at least.)

If what Johho said is correct and they didn't talk to their cultists they deserved what was coming to them. Really.

[Kingepyon]

We didn't believe OY, I was going to start feeding him misinformation but I got hunted.

Or at least, I didn't believe them. I told them to give them walrus' name, as walrus was already really suspected at the time.

[AVN]

With so many no-kill nights it was impossible for me to know who was good or bad. Especially after the no-kill of 2 nights ago.
The JL (if you can give it that name) was seriously thinking OY was turned and was considering killing both EUROO7 and OY.
With help of the hunter. Luckily he didn't contact me, because if he had done that he could have created great havoc.

A serious error I made was I didn't consider the possibility that the villager hunter was cursed.

What do I know (or do I think to know) ?
I was 2nd in command villager
Joeb was a promoted apprentice (seer now)
Trespoe villager with priestly powers
Sedracus villager with seerish powers (but it wouldn't surprise me if he was turned in the last no-kill night, because he stopped talking with me after that night).

Other than that I wasn't sure about anything.
Thanks baddies for granting us this victory.

It was a fun game with a surprising end.

[Athalcor]

So OY and walrus, two of my suspects that have remained alive till the end were...?

[Kingepyon]

walrus was a cultist

[Sedracus]

With so many no-kill nights it was impossible for me to know who was good or bad. Especially after the no-kill of 2 nights ago.
The JL (if you can give it that name) was seriously thinking OY was turned and was considering killing both EUROO7 and OY.
With help of the hunter. Luckily he didn't contact me, because if he had done that he could have created great havoc.

A serious error I made was I didn't consider the possibility that the villager hunter was cursed.

What do I know (or do I think to know) ?
I was 2nd in command villager
Joeb was a promoted apprentice (seer now)
Trespoe villager with priestly powers
Sedracus villager with seerish powers (but it wouldn't surprise me if he was turned in the last no-kill night, because he stopped talking with me after that night).

Other than that I wasn't sure about anything.
Thanks baddies for granting us this victory.

It was a fun game with a surprising end.

I didn't say anything at the end because I couldn't think of anything worthwhile to say, AVN.

Agreed, fun game, surprising end.

[johho888]

With so many no-kill nights it was impossible for me to know who was good or bad. Especially after the no-kill of 2 nights ago.
The JL (if you can give it that name) was seriously thinking OY was turned and was considering killing both EUROO7 and OY.
With help of the hunter. Luckily he didn't contact me, because if he had done that he could have created great havoc.

A serious error I made was I didn't consider the possibility that the villager hunter was cursed.

What do I know (or do I think to know) ?
I was 2nd in command villager
Joeb was a promoted apprentice (seer now)
Trespoe villager with priestly powers
Sedracus villager with seerish powers (but it wouldn't surprise me if he was turned in the last no-kill night, because he stopped talking with me after that night).

Other than that I wasn't sure about anything.
Thanks baddies for granting us this victory.

It was a fun game with a surprising end.

Yes, was fun reading the last PMs from AVN & Co where you planned on killing OY while OY and joeb thought the baddies should give up and the baddies were in a shock when they finally realized OY wasn't a baddie and they told the JL everything.

But at least you (or someone in your PM circle - trespoe/Sedracus) was the only one that figured out the sure way the baddies could win: Hunt AVN and have 4th in command humancalculator do the leaderlynch tomorrow. The baddies could also have won by hunting the last cursed one or even talked one of the two unaligned players, Rockingluke and Boris, into voting a goodie and then piled all their votes that way. Heck, they could even have won if AVN had leaderlynched OY like he was considering.

The baddies essentially won the game when they hunted TNT because at that time there was no protector alive and all they had to do to control the lynch was hunt AVN and then get 2 dead goodies in one go the next day which would bring them parity. From a discussion I had with drxav it sounded like he didn't know humancalculator's traits so maybe the new wolves didn't either but why? OTOH I had to remind several of "die Rote" what their own traits were and who their own cultists were so expecting them to remember other players traits might be asking too much?

It was a bit surprising that noone seemed to get the cursed hunter. I wonder why.

@randakar: die Rote figured out the "no sorcerer" on day 1 too, only that thought seemed to have died with esemesas.

[AVN]

It was a bit surprising that noone seemed to get the cursed hunter. I wonder why.

I was surprised that the hunted person didn't die, but then I draw the conclusion that if a hunter is attacked, not only he has a chance to kill the wolf, but that that also means that he would survive the hunt.
And I don't remember that I have seen a hunter win a wolf-attack before. So for me this is lack of knowledge of this specific situation.

And to be honest I was way more surprised that Kingepyon had voted his packmate Slinky out of the game. That bothered me much more, without being able to solve that puzzle.

[Kingepyon]

I was surprised that the hunted person didn't die, but then I draw the conclusion that if a hunter is attacked, not only he has a chance to kill the wolf, but that that also means that he would survive the hunt.
And I don't remember that I have seen a hunter win a wolf-attack before. So for me this is lack of knowledge of this specific situation.

And to be honest I was way more surprised that Kingepyon had voted his packmate Slinky out of the game. That bothered me much more, without being able to solve that puzzle.

I analyse, and vote for the most likely wolf candidate, if I can find two who are equally suspicious I vote for the one who isn't my packmate. If I can only find one, they're going to get caught sooner or later, I may as well further my own game.

It's also why I was so annoyed that my hunt target got switched. I died and I was one of the least likely suspects at the time.

[Davisx3m]

Meh....

[Cakravarti]

Yes, was fun reading the last PMs from AVN & Co where you planned on killing OY while OY and joeb thought the baddies should give up and the baddies were in a shock when they finally realized OY wasn't a baddie and they told the JL everything.

But at least you (or someone in your PM circle - trespoe/Sedracus) was the only one that figured out the sure way the baddies could win: Hunt AVN and have 4th in command humancalculator do the leaderlynch tomorrow. The baddies could also have won by hunting the last cursed one or even talked one of the two unaligned players, Rockingluke and Boris, into voting a goodie and then piled all their votes that way. Heck, they could even have won if AVN had leaderlynched OY like he was considering.

The baddies essentially won the game when they hunted TNT because at that time there was no protector alive and all they had to do to control the lynch was hunt AVN and then get 2 dead goodies in one go which would bring them parity. From a discussion I had with drxav it sounded like he didn't know humancalculator's traits so maybe the new wolves didn't either but why? OTOH I had to remind several of "die Rote" what their own traits were and who their own cultists were so expecting them to remember other players traits might be asking too much?

It was a bit surprising that noone seemed to get the cursed hunter. I wonder why.

@randakar: die Rote figured out the "no sorcerer" on day 1 too, only that thought seemed to have died with esemesas.

See the problem with this is we knew there was an infiltrator but didnt know who it was. When I joined the pack mid-way through drxav told me about OY and HC contacting Rysz. Kingepyon never shared with me his suspicions of OY before his death, despite his knowledge that drxav wanted someone in the pack to contact OY. Unfortunately drxav ended up contacting OY himself before being outed. He should have had one of the cultists do it instead. Once he was outed he also contacted HC. At this point we were suspicious of OY because of the outing but once it was revealed snoop was a witness we were lulled into a sense of security.

So off course it became a shock to me when we failed to reach parity despite having 7 members in the mega-pack (myself, davis, najs, walrus, OY, joeb, HC) in a 14 man village. It became clear that someone was the infiltrator but we didnt know whether it was OY or HC. Furthermore I was panicing at this point because Najs (despite my reservations) had clued HC onto our discussions and he knew our identities. At this point I stopped all communications with HC and only maintained comm with OY via Najs. OY didnt know the identity of the pack beyond Najs.

To make matters worse we had pissed all our sorcerous scans away. Najs was sleeping with drxav the night he used his scan (they hadnt figured out how the lover thing worked). Najs wasted his scan on OY(we were never 100% sure of him) since the sorcerous scan doesnt pick up sorcerors. And then walrus scanned Vainglory the night he was killed. At this point there was no way for us to verify either OY or HC.

And then came the fateful night when Euroo was turned. EURO was convinced OY was the sorceror and spilled everything to him. That was it.

We were going to hunt HC that night because EURO was convinced that HC was the infiltrator. But at the last minute I had a change of heart. I just wasnt convinced that it was definitely HC who was the impostor. I also read a pm EURO sent me about how the JL wanted Najs dead because he was intefering with their plans and remembered Najs had slept with the freeman the night before he was outed/run up. I guessed freeman was the seer and changed my orders appropriately.

Everything could have been so different if HC had just told me he was the 4th leader. At several points I was contemplating tieing the village up but didnt bother because AVN was leader and I knew he would just leader lynch us. Killing him seemed to be pointless since I assumed another in the village would assume the role of leader and ruin our ties/wins. I dont understand why HC never revealed this to me especially once TNT was dead.

[Kingepyon]

See the problem with this is we knew there was an infiltrator but didnt know who it was. When I joined the pack mid-way through drxav told me about OY and HC contacting Rysz. Kingepyon never shared with me his suspicions of OY before his death, despite his knowledge that drxav wanted someone in the pack to contact OY. Unfortunately drxav ended up contacting OY himself before being outed. He should have had one of the cultists do it instead. Once he was outed he also contacted HC. At this point we were suspicious of OY because of the outing but once it was revealed snoop was a witness we were lulled into a sense of security.

So off course it became a shock to me when we failed to reach parity despite having 7 members in the mega-pack (myself, davis, najs, walrus, OY, joeb, HC) in a 14 man village. It became clear that someone was the infiltrator but we didnt know whether it was OY or HC. Furthermore I was panicing at this point because Najs (despite my reservations) had clued HC onto our discussions and he knew our identities. At this point I stopped all communications with HC and only maintained comm with OY via Najs. OY didnt know the identity of the pack beyond Najs.

To make matters worse we had pissed all our sorcerous scans away. Najs was sleeping with drxav the night he used his scan (they hadnt figured out how the lover thing worked). Najs wasted his scan on OY(we were never 100% sure of him) since the sorcerous scan doesnt pick up sorcerors. And then walrus scanned Vainglory the night he was killed. At this point there was no way for us to verify either OY or HC.

And then came the fateful night when Euroo was turned. EURO was convinced OY was the sorceror and spilled everything to him. That was it.

We were going to hunt HC that night because EURO was convinced that HC was the infiltrator. But at the last minute I had a change of heart. I just wasnt convinced that it was definitely HC who was the impostor. I also read a pm EURO sent me about how the JL wanted Najs dead because he was intefering with their plans and remembered Najs had slept with the freeman the night before he was outed/run up. I guessed freeman was the seer and changed my orders appropriately.

Everything could have been so different if HC had just told me he was the 4th leader. At several points I was contemplating tieing the village up but didnt bother because AVN was leader and I knew he would just leader lynch us. Killing him seemed to be pointless since I assumed another in the village would assume the role of leader and ruin our ties/wins. I dont understand why HC never revealed this to me especially once TNT was dead.

I had a computer error where my PMs that I tried to save didn't save and I deleted them, because I thought they were saved. I couldn't remember who the turned packmate was because the hunt got switched by Drxav away from the hunt I had chosen. I had sent my suspicions to Drxav and johho along with new hunt orders and a request to tell me who the last member was.

I didn't receive anything back I was asleep, a couple hours or so before deadline, so I missed the deadline and found that I was dead because my hunt was changed again, and we hit a hunter.

[Cakravarti]

I had a computer error where my PMs that I tried to save didn't save and I deleted them, because I thought they were saved. I couldn't remember who the turned packmate was because the hunt got switched by Drxav away from the hunt I had chosen. I had sent my suspicions to Drxav and johho along with new hunt orders and a request about who my last packmate was.

I didn't receive anything back until I was asleep, so I missed the deadline and found that I was dead because my hunt was changed again.

Ah I see. Well it doesnt really matter. Defeat at the end of the day had nothing to do with you, although if you had been able to contact me and had strong convictions and strongly argued your case against OY it might have convinced me and we wouldnt have had this issue of 'infiltrators'.

[EUROO7]

Hunt me again, I dare you.

[Cakravarti]

Hunt me again, I dare you.

The only reason I hunted you was Najs was convinced you were the seer. But yes I am aware of your destructive potential to whichever side you are on.

[Najs]

The only reason I hunted you was Najs was convinced you were the seer. But yes I am aware of your destructive potential to whichever side you are on.

Yes. Another failure to add to the list.

The night of my death I convinced Cakra to hunt EURO instead of Freeman (who was one of the last people on a handy list drxav made for us). I never bothered to hunt AVN, mostly because I did not realise what purpose it would serve. Heck, I even contacted him after he proclaimed the need for villagers with traits. I told him what was mostly truth (minus the cultist part) but he thought I was lying and told the village to kill me.

To make matters worse I suspected OY, but wishful thinking got in the way. I really wanted us to be a mere day from parity. All the clues that he was an infiltrator were there. Strange behaviour in PMs, avoiding certain matters, his "apprentice" being appearing to be completely unconnected, the set-up. I failed hard.

[johho888]

I analyse, and vote for the most likely wolf candidate, if I can find two who are equally suspicious I vote for the one who isn't my packmate. If I can only find one, they're going to get caught sooner or later, I may as well further my own game.

It's also why I was so annoyed that my hunt target got switched. I died and I was one of the least likely suspects at the time.

True, I was sad the hunter shot you (and not some of the other wolves) because you seemed to be in the best position to hide with your Slinky vote. But a dice roll is a dice roll.

[OrangeYoshi]

OY didnt know the identity of the pack beyond Najs.

Ah. You see, that is wrong. Because Najs committed the fatal error here. EURO is simply the one who separated the wolves from the cultists.

First of all, this goes out to all parts of our pack. Since we still cannot be sure of our dear sorc I used BCC for my other packmates.

Now, there are 7 of us. There are 7 of them. All we need to do is sway one poor fool and we have the victory sealed. I am strongly considering using Rockingluke as an IJL mouthpiece and I'd like it if OY took the contact. Tell him that AVN is most likely a formerly cursed wolf or something. Fake a PM, do whatever you need to do. I'd love it if we could get the mouthpiece lynched on the last day.

If that is not feasible, I imagine Freeman and Boris might do as well. Or Rockingluke, but then you need another mouthpiece and he is a noob. We will need full team support on this one. Remember, this is the last day if we do it right. There will be victory.

THAT was what ended the game. I knew the identity of AVN, sed, trespoe, myself, freeman, and joeb. I knew the identity of Najs. He also told me there were exactly 4 other baddies besides himself. Well, this PM, telling me that Rockingluke and boris were not baddies, narrowed the list of possible baddies down to 5. EURO was on that list. I grilled EURO, telling him I was the sorc and convinced him that I thought he was a cultist. His behavior convinced me that he was a villager. So now I was 4-for-4 on the baddie names. I knew the entire pack 2 days ago. All EURO did when he got turned was tell me which ones were the wolves.

The fact that I was put in contact with the seer on Day 3 is what made all these shenanigans possible. When Rysz told me joeb was an apprentice, I was able to get the seer to scan him and claim him. When a lover slept with the seer, I was able to tell people a lover slept with me.

Curiously enough, a lover sleeping with the seer is what initially made us think Najs was a baddie. We were going to trust him until he claimed lover. I knew who the lover had been sleeping with the previous night, as well as the night 2 nights before that, so I had AVN ask him for his "sleep list". When he said it had been set to drxav or davis all game... that's when we knew he was a lying baddie.

And johho, yes, while the wolves could've used 4th in Command HC, I had been successful in convincing them that HC was the infiltrator. First, they didn't trust him. Second, they weren't talking to him. Third, I bet they didn't even know he was 4th in Command. Fifth, it seems they entirely forgot AVN was 2nd in Command! The ideas their pack was getting seemed like they thought they could control lynches with AVN still alive (see above PM).