(MOD) More Provinces Mod

[scholar]

For Korea, would it not be more correct to have the island of Jeju be made into a province?

I would give most of Korea a uniform 2-3 base tax and 3-4 manpower. Korea was not dirt poor, but it was never a center of trade or bustling commercial enterprise. Part of the reason why Korea was never really interfered with by the European Powers until Japan and Russia bashed heads over it is because it was never considered profitable enough to go there, even Christian Missionaries came rather late to the region. This didn't stop them from supporting armies and navies larger than most European countries had, however. Uniform good, with the possibility of improvement, but not bad.

[scholar]

Personally i would much rather have you do what youve done so far: take an ingame screenshot edit borders with your improving paint skillz and show it to me, then ill do the magic. That way we know exactly why stuff is done the way it is.

Fair enough, I'm on Jin right now.

Before I go overboard is there any restrictions you'd like to place on me? As in the maximum number of additional provinces for the Jin? I am aiming for 2 or 3.

[DanubianCossak]

8 provinces sounds reasonable to me, specially having in mind that there areas the same size with only 2-3 provinces. And yes, i have increased base taxes and mapower already to the same (or slightly better) standard to that of Europe.

Fair enough, I'm on Jin right now.

Before I go overboard is there any restrictions you'd like to place on me? As in the maximum number of additional provinces for the Jin? I am aiming for 2 or 3.

Hmm let me check out the area in game.

Edit: ok first about Yan, you drew 2 additional provinces, i can squeeze one so pick which ever you want (both are coastal).

Right now im looking at 10-15 additional provinces in China MAX, and thats with most of them being recycled from African leftovers.

Jin: first draw the outer borders (borders toward other regions), then redraw the provinces and place them where they should be. Then compare their sizes and shapes to provinces in screenshot of 8 province Korea. If they are larger, add provinces until they fit the same size. At first glance, id say thats about 1 province, maybe 2 if you really push it (i know you could add 50 provinces to China but lets try to avoid making another abomination like Japan ).

[scholar]

Edit: ok first about Yan, you drew 2 additional provinces, i can squeeze one so pick which ever you want (both are coastal).

Right now im looking at 10-15 additional provinces in China MAX, and thats with most of them being recycled from African leftovers.

Jin: first draw the outer borders (borders toward other regions), then redraw the provinces and place them where they should be. Then compare their sizes and shapes to provinces in screenshot of 8 province Korea. If they are larger, add provinces until they fit the same size. At first glance, id say thats about 1 province, maybe 2 if you really push it (i know you could add 50 provinces to China but lets try to avoid making another abomination like Japan ).

Yingkou, but merge the two provinces together. Dalian is a port province on the outer edge of the peninsula.

So... Austria goes from 3 provinces to 5... It makes the provinces I do add all the more important.

Alright. I had plans on going back and adding in the vassal Mongol state which resides in western Jin and eastern Mongol Khanate, I take it I should forget about that?

I've got some digging to do to make sure I'm adding the most important province instead of just the most recognizable.

[DanubianCossak]

We should finish China (as in the area i released everything in), 10-15 new provinces might not sound like a lot, but thats about 2-3 new provinces PER region, and in some cases it might be even more, like i told you use the Korea as reference for size, anything more than that, you end up with another Japan which breaks the game. There is a bigger picture here, dont forget that, and i never said i wont consider adding new provinces in countries around China (so reworking Mongol Khanate sounds cool too).

But let me make one thing clear: due to game engine limitations, as well as balancing issues, i dont have infinite resources at my disposal. I wish i could create more elaborate map than Vicky 2 with even more detail and hundreds if not thousands of additional tags on top of that. But i cant, since the game engine cannot handle all that, and i for one dont wanna have to wait ~5 minutes for one in game month to pass, thats no fun and makes game barely playable. With all that in mind, there is simply no way to do the ENTIRE world in same detail as Europe, so even though im certain we could fit 100 new provinces in China, we cant do that, as it would then take another 100 provinces around China to make it balanced, else not only would game run slower, but despite having China in bad tech group, due to sheer number of provinces they would probably dominate the world in every single game. Some people might consider that fun, and i agree, it would be different to see a game which is not Eurocentric, but thats not what MPM is about. In its core its still Europa Universalis, with more content, not a radical redesigned gameplay approach.

[scholar]

We should finish China (as in the area i released everything in), 10-15 new provinces might not sound like a lot, but thats about 2-3 new provinces PER region, and in some cases it might be even more, like i told you use the Korea as reference for size, anything more than that, you end up with another Japan which breaks the game. There is a bigger picture here, dont forget that, and i never said i wont consider adding new provinces in countries around China (so reworking Mongol Khanate sounds cool too).

But let me make one thing clear: due to game engine limitations, as well as balancing issues, i dont have infinite resources at my disposal. I wish i could create more elaborate map than Vicky 2 with even more detail and hundreds if not thousands of additional tags on top of that. But i cant, since the game engine cannot handle all that, and i for one dont wanna have to wait ~5 minutes for one in game month to pass, thats no fun and makes game barely playable. With all that in mind, there is simply no way to do the ENTIRE world in same detail as Europe, so even though im certain we could fit 100 new provinces in China, we cant do that, as it would then take another 100 provinces around China to make it balanced, else not only would game run slower, but despite having China in bad tech group, due to sheer number of provinces they would probably dominate the world in every single game. Some people might consider that fun, and i agree, it would be different to see a game which is not Eurocentric, but thats not what MPM is about. In its core its still Europa Universalis, with more content, not a radical redesigned gameplay approach.

Don't take my comments as criticism, I only meant to suggest that I would need to make what I add the most important provinces.

[DanubianCossak]

Don't take my comments as criticism, I only meant to suggest that I would need to make what I add the most important provinces.

I dont mind the criticism, it makes things better, i just wanted to post that [wall of text] so that you dont think i dont want to do something just because i think China (or the area) is not worth it, because i think it is, i just have to balance everything to make sure game is both interesting and playable at the same time

[Tkh]

I dont mind the criticism, it makes things better, i just wanted to post that [wall of text] so that you dont think i dont want to do something just because i think China (or the area) is not worth it, because i think it is, i just have to balance everything to make sure game is both interesting and playable at the same time

I think maybe you can start with something easier to edit:
Sichuan and Shangdong.
Removing Bandao(peninsula) and Pendi (Basin) might be better since it sounds quite weird for a province.

[Tkh]

For Korea, would it not be more correct to have the island of Jeju be made into a province?

I would give most of Korea a uniform 2-3 base tax and 3-4 manpower. Korea was not dirt poor, but it was never a center of trade or bustling commercial enterprise. Part of the reason why Korea was never really interfered with by the European Powers until Japan and Russia bashed heads over it is because it was never considered profitable enough to go there, even Christian Missionaries came rather late to the region. This didn't stop them from supporting armies and navies larger than most European countries had, however. Uniform good, with the possibility of improvement, but not bad.

I think so. although Jeju was not a separate province of Joseon, it was of strategical impotance so that's why I suggest adding it. For example, though not in the game timeframe, Yuan acquired the Island as a doorway to attack Japan before Goryeo got it back in 1294.

[Tkh]

And heres Korea with rivers (still need some work, but its boring so ill do it another time :P), if you want changes in terrain (mountains etc) give me some more maps.



Will apply city info right now.

This is the tearrin there.
The eastern part of the peninsula was acutally mainly hills (with plantations) but in game it was drawed as forests. IDK which should be drawn, hills or forests...

[DanubianCossak]

Ill start with hills in the east and drop some farms around Seul with rest of the west being plains / small amounts of hills.

[DanubianCossak]

Version 5.8 is out.

-redone China (partially). Split into a number of regions, each one having its own revolter state/culture, should lead to increased fragmentation of Ming which should be fun (i hope?). Note that area is still being worked on, so right now its not 100% accurate.
-redone Jurchens, apparently i managed to somehow use political situation in Manchuria from about 500 years before 1399. After this patch it should be much more accurate.
-redone Korea - fixed all 7 provinces to have correct name/city name, city size and trade good, + added 8th province (recycled).
-minor border change for Tibet (caused by moving China's outer border to cover the historic lines)
-redone France again, this time mostly in the South. It should have a more natural "feel" this time and fixed locations (hopefully its still hard to find correct maps).
-fixed many events previously added
-fixed and rebalanced effects of some event modifiers
-minor stuff here and there

Questions:

What would you guys like to see in the near future? More events? Decisions?

Do you think we should have a "Post your MPM Empire" thread?

[scholar]

Questions:

What would you guys like to see in the near future? More events? Decisions?

Do you think we should have a "Post your MPM Empire" thread?

Jeju and Korea will be perfect.

Some events, one of which rips China apart. Basic stuff like RR + 20, Manpower - 200%, Stability Cost + 500% Army and Naval Tradition + .5 (intentional)

some decisions, one of which unites the Jurchens into Manchuria or the Mongols, one that unites China and helps along the fractionary states. Generic decision, but one that boosts basetax for the entire region like Germany and events like Swedish Steel or Prussian military decisions.

Sure, I think that would work out great!

[Trytols]

Excellent job as always.
More Events and Decisions are good!

Btw, why did you remove Greenland colonies from the map?

I've found a little error in the map Province 1123... Its called "Segu" like in vanilla instead of "Anticosti" like it should be.

[DanubianCossak]

Excellent job as always.
More Events and Decisions are good!

Btw, why did you remove Greenland colonies from the map?

I've found a little error in the map Province 1123... Its called "Segu" like in vanilla instead of "Anticosti" like it should be.

Thx.

I was told to remove Greenland provinces because in real life, within EU3 timeframe, they were never settled as in what colonize means in EU3 terms > jumping point for further colonization.

Thx, it was an oversight, fixed now.

[Trytols]

I was told to remove Greenland provinces because in real life, within EU3 timeframe, they were never settled as in what colonize means in EU3 terms > jumping point for further colonization.

Yup, i understand... But... This is an "alternative history" game... You know France never invaded UK, or Uk never conquered Algeria and so on.... But in the game those things happen. Leaving 2 small Greenland provinces colonizable should not be a mistake cause they are colonizable! I read they "settle" them in 1721 btw.

Just image "What if a country decided to settle Greendlan in EU3 timeline" like "France decided to invade UK in 1420"....

Again, great mod so far.

[DanubianCossak]

My understanding of the Greenland problem is that in real life what goes for "settling" this area is not quite the same as what happens in EU3, where after you establish a colony, 50 years later you can use it as a jump point to colonize ENTIRE Americas from. Thats not only ahistoric (afaik Greenland was never used like that, nor did it support population as high as it would get in EU3 terms because of harsh living conditions) but is extremely gamey, where any country from Northern Europe could colonize them (think Novgorod, Pskov etc) and then start colonizing Americas 50 years later without some extreme naval technology levels (which should be required to do that as NOV/PSK etc).

Id like to hear what more people consider, but if i remember correctly some time ago quite a few people suggested this change.

1.)Some events, one of which rips China apart. Basic stuff like RR + 20, Manpower - 200%, Stability Cost + 500% Army and Naval Tradition + .5 (intentional)

2.)some decisions, one of which unites the Jurchens into Manchuria or the Mongols,

3.)one that unites China and helps along the fractionary states.

4.)Generic decision, but one that boosts basetax for the entire region like Germany and events like

5.)Swedish Steel or Prussian military decisions.

I slightly edited your post to make it easier to answer it point-to-point, hope you dont mind.

1.) Events that rip China apart by forcing them to release stuff via event effect is too deterministic and not according to MPM design philosophy (not sure if thats what you meant).

Events or even event chains that add various case-to-case effects are more than possible and quite welcome, the only problem is that i need ideas for those and lots of them. Give me some examples from Chinese history, either different social structures fighting for power, or nationalism or something. I could write a 100 events easily, if you wanna do the localizations (in English only) that would "feel" Asian, you have a deal.

2.) i wanna do this, great idea, any details/specifics i should do?

3.) same as above, give me some idea of who how what where etc

4.) i think i removed the part of German decision that increases base tax for whole Germany, thats so outrageously OP, it should never have been added. A normal, standard decision to form China and get base tax and manpower in a couple of provinces is more than possible, and i like it. As in 2 cases above need more description who how what where...

5.) thats no problem at all, give me ideas, some stuff from Chinese (region?) history and you can have it.

[Trytols]

Another little bug i found. The "low maintenance" red icon doesn't show on map when i've troops and ships at low maintenance. Guess you can fix it, or tell me how to do that.

[DanubianCossak]

Thats harcodded and only appears if you lower maintenance and go to war. If youre at peace no icon. Cant mod it in any way.

[scholar]

Many of those events would simply be modifiers brought on by very specific prerequisites, while the later, ripping China apart, would have an even greater number of specific details, largely the existence of two or more other states in the region, surrendering all lands sharing the culture type of the freed fragment states.

The localizations are a nightmare for me, the events would be easier to write up myself!

For Manchurian Unification you should have the just need to own all the lands that the Haixi and Jianzhou Jurchens currently control. Note: Own, not Core. Cores should be given on all of Manchuria upon this event and lead to the conquest of the wild jurchens by the Manchurians. The different Jurchen cultures should also change into Manchurian as they rapidly lost the identity of being Jurchens, and different jurchens at that, after they were unified.

Mongol Unification should require the ownership of 12 provinces and the ownership of Ulaanchab and Ordos. Capital should move to Ulaanchab and there should be a universal basetax increase. The region is poor and the bonuses given to China will only make it look poorer. Further changes can be made such as the transition to a muslim tech group, but that would need more thought. It should also have a decision called "restore the Yuan Dynasty" which would give the Mandate of Heaven modifier and cores on all of China.

A static modifier should be for all fragmentary states should be "The Mandate of Heaven" which should give substantial boosts to prestige, manpower modifiers, and force limits. This modifier should remain in place for as long as other chinese fragmentary states exist, once there is only one this modifier is lost. Events that constantly give cores on neighboring Chinese states would help conquests along. When the Mandate of Heaven is taken away a different modifier called "Lord of Tianxia" should kick in, which should be given to the Ming at the onset, which caps manpower and forcelimits, but gives a production, trade, and cultural tradition boost. It should also give healthy doses of increasing relations with surrounding states with events firing every five years or so about Korean, Vietnamese, Champan, Khmer, Thai, or Tibetan ambassadors giving tribute which further increases relations. There are a hundred different ways to add more on, but those four basic events and modifiers would add layers to gameplay on their own.

Fair enough, but my argument for the basetax universal upgrade comes from the fact that we're making China more rich, something that I have absolutely zero objection to. Its just that this also makes the already dirt poor regions to the north of china even poorer when historically the lands there could easily support a very massive empire with very large armies if properly unified.

There are hundreds of ways to go about that, but a major one would be "Treasure Fleet" which should drastically increase naval forcelimits, with lesser bonuses with trade range, naval moral, and yearly naval tradition. Quest for the New World or Colonial Ventures should be a requirement to enact this decision, however.