6 years of High School here, that makes 6 years of french + english since you are 6 IIRCOriginally Posted by Dankysh
6 years of High School here, that makes 6 years of french + english since you are 6 IIRC
CAMPEONES SUPERCOPA DE EUROPA 2012
Mi blog... de todo un poco
Since I've been playing in the HRE for my last few games (as Switzerland, Bavaria, Lubeck) here are some random observations.
When you're small you really notice the discrepancies in base tax and manpower between provinces. Switzerland gets less value out of its 5 starting provinces than Lubeck does from its single one, thanks to the CoT! Playing as a landlocked HRE power with no easy way of expanding outside of the Empire is interesting and pretty fun to deal with.
As Bavaria, force vassal => diplo annex on OPMs with mission assistance was my main source of new provinces for some time, even though it still makes the Emperor hate you it doesn't leave you with any noncore provinces so no HRE penalties. Hainaut (who I chose over Holland) hated the shit out of me and declared independence 3 times via event, though the last time it never had a chance to actually break away. I had Bavaria up to a solid medium power by about 1500 owning all of the former Palatinate, Salzburg, Ulm, Ausgurg, and Mainz (no core, I really wanted a land connection), when I got excommunicated and then Austria declared on me (Imperial Liberation CB) with its super massive army. Lesson learned: don't take noncores ever! I'll definitely try this game again with a similar approach, though I doubt I'll be so lucky with alliances and random CBs just dropping those OPMs into my lap; I had a great string of high dip rulers which also helped. NIs went Military Drill => Unam Sanctum (needed the AE and I wanted the CB later on; I was planning on going Protestant) => Battlefield Commissions. I wanted Bill of Rights but my sliders were wrong
50 years on core loss (yes I'm going to keep complaining about this) makes it really really hard for Switzerland to make its historical borders at its current strength. Their little historical decisions are very minor and don't really compensate for being dirt poor and surrounded by significantly wealthier antagonists (Savoy, Austria and Milan). Very slow game, AI as usual doesn't bother coming to beat me up for its cores (which would be really really easy, my army is tiny) and I mostly just sit around building and waiting for random CBs. Took lots of military NIs even though most of them are pretty worthless, but in this case I desperately needed every bonus I could get when nearly every war will be against an alliance with 5x more troops than I have. I'd love to take some trade ideas but I just can't afford to. Swiss sliders kind of suck all round, too. I would have thought that they would start at land 5!
As Lubeck (later Hansa) I managed to cripple most of the CoTs in Europe to the extent that Lubeck was worth more than all other known CoTs combined (peaked at 1550 about 1485, later dropping due to losing league members). Using a similar diplo annex strategy I aim to form the North German Confederation, currently (1550) I only own Mecklenburg apart from the Hansa provinces, plus a couple of former Prussian and Polish provs. I abused the hell out of Jewish merchants, using Bill of Rights and Humanist Tolerance for cultural tradition, RR reduction (to make up for Jew penalties) and tolerance. You really get some amazing bonuses from them if you can handle the severe RR hit. Had some annoying issues with missions that I mentioned earlier, another one that I didn't was getting 'return England to the fold' over and over when their chance to join the trade league (at 200 relations) was Impossible! There's always tons going on in trade league games, I didn't get involved in a single war for nearly 100 years of play and it was still fun.
In general I always offer refuge to Jews, the benefits are pretty good and even if you're intolerant you only have to deal with a little bump in RR. Jewish Architects are an absolute staple in my games, the building cost reduction basically means free money and they don't give such a serious RR increase as most of the others. Jewish scholars are decent for turning prestige into cultural tradition, and you get through a lot of cultural tradition keeping good Jewish advisers active so you really need it. Bill of Rights is almost a nobrainer, it essentially lets you stack powerful Jewish advisers or go max centralisation while still a feudal monarchy and totally negates the downside, on top of giving AE.
Suggestions from this:
Consider making Swiss provinces a bit better, and/or improve their sliders. They should be a significant power and able to retake their cores in non-exceptional circumstances. Those provinces are currently some of the worst in the entire HRE.
50 years for core loss is still too short
Revisions to missions that I suggested previously.
The AI managed to pass HRE reforms really fast in the Bavaria game (circuits came in 1460ish and the one which gives states a CB on unlawful HRE conquests about 1480) and a bit faster than I expected in the others. Burgundy basically failed to expand every time, and the emperor gets tons of authority from defending those minors, which might be why. It seemed a bit weird though.
OK I'm up to the second Harry Potter and had a nice nap after lunchHave read, and will respond to, posts in a while...
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
OK that's weird, I'll look in to it...
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Cool, thanks for that. I am betting NihilCredo would also appreciate your fix, as it is his script. The pertinent thread is here: [Micro-mod / Sub-mod] Liege Rescues Subject
I'll nose through it tomorrow and add your changes for the first v0.59 patch. Cheers!
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Oops, multi-quote is working again...
Uhm, wouldn't you get the CB before you lose 20 prestige & 20 legitimacy? I'm not sure, as it's been a long while since I tried using that. I'm following you on the other, isn't it a good thing to get the PU sooner rather than later, if that's what your goal? I've never got one that easy myself, but regardless I am not seeing the problem...
Cheers
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Nah I was just talking about the tactic of getting a royal marriage then claiming their throne straight away. Only players would do that though (I don't as it's cheap) I think lol.
When you claim throne, I got 20 prestige & 20 legit. Then you need 75% prestige & 80 legit to get the CB for it.
Cool, I've never tried the latter two, but Switzerland is one of my favorites.
Oh yes, those small merchant republics have it made. Strong economy, fast tech leveling etc. Lousy forcelimits and manpower though.
It is quite difficult to unlawfully seize provinces in the HRE, if you intend to avoid a huge war. I have managed to suffer through the wait for core when playing as Holland, however they are quite distant from the usual Emperors, hence less likely to see direct imperial intervention. It is most frequently advisable to return the inherited/defected provinces to the emperor, quickly free them as vassals if applicable or, if not, sell the province back to it's owner before the Emperor gives you a spanking.As Bavaria, force vassal => diplo annex on OPMs with mission assistance was my main source of new provinces for some time, even though it still makes the Emperor hate you it doesn't leave you with any noncore provinces so no HRE penalties. Hainaut (who I chose over Holland) hated the shit out of me and declared independence 3 times via event, though the last time it never had a chance to actually break away. I had Bavaria up to a solid medium power by about 1500 owning all of the former Palatinate, Salzburg, Ulm, Ausgurg, and Mainz (no core, I really wanted a land connection), when I got excommunicated and then Austria declared on me (Imperial Liberation CB) with its super massive army. Lesson learned: don't take noncores ever! I'll definitely try this game again with a similar approach, though I doubt I'll be so lucky with alliances and random CBs just dropping those OPMs into my lap; I had a great string of high dip rulers which also helped. NIs went Military Drill => Unam Sanctum (needed the AE and I wanted the CB later on; I was planning on going Protestant) => Battlefield Commissions. I wanted Bill of Rights but my sliders were wrong
Switzerland is much more difficult now than previously, however it was overall a change for the better. It used to be possible to coast through an entire campaign without any wars whatsoever, there wasn't really much to do after learning the economical aspects of SRI. That's a good point regarding their sliders, it would apply to half of Europe though, not to mention the ROTW. You certainly do need to focus your priorities more with SRI, no? Can't have it all, like in vanilla.50 years on core loss (yes I'm going to keep complaining about this
The missions are tricky for me. This is mostly because I see them as a sideline to my personal goals, and frequently leave them sit for long periods of time, during which factors can change. They are to me something to do during a lull in your campaign, while awaiting some factor pertinent to your actual goals. Also they can be useful to help guide the AI in some circumstances, although one needs avoid being overly deterministic in this regard. I understand some folks play differently, where achievements and missions are the goal itself, and not a sideline. It is possible to create more specific conditions for missions, such as in your England example to check for them owning a CoT. This will obviously cause them to never join your trade league, but what about the other factors/possibilities? They could lose their CoT a month after you get the mission, either through releasing a vassal, foreign annexation, or it simply going bust due to stagnation. If one tried to add all the possible eventualities to the mission triggers it would likely cripple the system due to all the CPU time spent polling "potential =" limits. I'm not sure missions are important enough to make this step, nor to spend the huge amounts of time it would take to cover all the bases. It's a tricky call... but yes, some of them need work and I have been picking away at them.
I used to always shelter the Jews and try to emancipate them ASAP, but have lately been role-playing more, then it depends. Sometimes it can just not work due to the NI requirements, or from a RP perspective just not be realistic and break your immersion. I also like how they are modeled, with the increased revolt risk. I want to create something as clever for my two free spots, however I've yet to think of anything great (that's why I keep delaying them).
I will keep it in mind, but need to observe Switzerland for a while longer first. Helius just made some significant changes to their holdings, and I haven't seen enough yet to attempt to balance them. But yes, a conservative move towards Land sounds reasonable. The core loss interval is not likely to change, I'm afraid. I just don't see the issue, and have never unintentionally lost a core due to the 50 years passing. Not that I don't welcome the suggestion, I do, but it will take some serious evidence to convince me of the necessity. You could always shift it to your tastes, then let us know how it works out for you...Suggestions from this:
Consider making Swiss provinces a bit better, and/or improve their sliders. They should be a significant power and able to retake their cores in non-exceptional circumstances. Those provinces are currently some of the worst in the entire HRE.
50 years for core loss is still too short
Yes it's been on the list for v0.60.x and will be addressed along with the numerous event & decision notes folks have provided. I wouldn't expect too much with regard to the missions though. Consider the England/CoT example above, and ask yourself whether you are thinking of all the potential circumstances and situations. It's not always so easy to make changes at it may seem, especially based on one instance or eventuality.
The HRE is quite dynamic with regard to the duration between reforms, but yes that is rather early. Some emperors such as Milan always faill miserably, while Austria is typically quite successful in pushing through the reforms. Bohemia is unpredictable and can go either way. I think it's working quite well overall, no?
Thanks again for taking the time to share your observations, & suggestions, it is very much appreciated. If I can't always act based on your input, I do think about it carefully. Rest assured you will manage to squeak the occasional change through!
Cheers!
Last edited by Scocou; 20-10-2011 at 01:44.
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Honestly, I complain about it for the AI's sake rather than my own. I can usually contrive a war in order to reset the clock on cores even if I know I'm not going to be able to win decisively enough to actually force a concession, but the AI doesn't seem to mind losing cores. I am generally playing with it set to 150 years just because when you increase that timespan enough the AI will usually end up getting into some conflict over its cores instead of allowing them to expire, which makes things more interesting (plus I just don't like the fact that claims simply disappear, historically speaking rulers would dredge up some really weak excuses to go to war!)
Really I'm just nitpicking at something almost entirely irrelevent here and I will admit that I would like for the AI to follow a historically successful path a bit more often in some cases, which isn't going to happen without some more events helping things along, or a lot of very careful and cautious balance tweaking. It annoys me when the AI doesn't do what it's 'supposed' to do
I understand, but personally lean towards the non-deterministic approach, else the whole game becomes rather tiresome & predictable before too long. Besides, nations did historically lose territory, never to regain it. 150 years is quite a stretch, I can't imagine too many nations maintained claims on territory after a century and a half... but I am known to be wrong rather frequently. I would hate to see this mod take the road that led to giant blobs forming every campaign come 16th century, that seat is taken. The core-removal events, coupled with the plausible core-gaining events really lend a natural, dynamic flow to province ownership IMO. I think so long as things are plausible, it is not terribly important that history repeats itself every campaign. Anyhow, to each their own, but I really think I will stick to the 50 year SRI default, unless presented with a compelling case against it. Don't stop making suggestions though, you are one of my best feedback guys and I'd hate to lose you, lol!Stick it to the man!
Cheers
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
I don't particularly care to see historical outcomes every game, I just like to see at least once in maybe 10 or so games for most historical events of the first ~150 years of gameplay occur. After that is a free-for-all as far as I'm concerned. So that would include the OE consolidating Greece and Anatolia and then annexing the Mamluks, Burgundy expanding followed by the Burgundian inheritance, 100 years' war coming to a conclusion, the formation of Russia and Spain, Polish expansion into the Baltic, lots of silly Scandinavian wars and yes even Swiss territorial expansion! A good number of these seem to happen in OSC with some regularity. I like to give the AI plenty of assistance at meeting some of these aims, because if they never, ever happen then generally speaking it means the game is modeling something poorly.
Anyway, back to reporting minor details; BUR has a core on Gelre in the history files, but because there's no add_core date it automatically expires as soon as the game starts. The same applies to Lithuania's core on Samogitia (since for whatever reason it automatically converts). For historical reasons, Poland should probably have a core on Podolia and possibly Volhynia as well, if not at game start then certainly in 1411. Historically, they were a disputed region between Poland and Lithuania.
Last edited by Rabid; 20-10-2011 at 13:53.
I may ask a question, is the total religious mess in Ethiopia intentional or the orthodox nation/copt population is due to an overlook?
Not a big problem since I'll just edit them oriental orthodox in my game but it looks kind of weird, since they even start as a despotic monarchy (should be feudal but it's good the same since they weren't tribal as in most mods/vanilla) and with the correct title.
And yes, Ethiopia is a fetish of mine lately.
Ammo pusato chitarre e tamburo
pecché 'sta musica s'adda cagnà
simmo briganti e facimmo paura,
e cu a scuppetta vulimmo cantà
Never played Ethiopia, but always thought they would be interesting. Do they have special mission, decisions and such so they feel different to other nations?
Except from the thing they start as a Monarchy and have the ruler correctly named, they're pretty much identical to vanilla mission wise.
Ammo pusato chitarre e tamburo
pecché 'sta musica s'adda cagnà
simmo briganti e facimmo paura,
e cu a scuppetta vulimmo cantà
If it is a mess, it is not intentional. The most helpful thing you could do in this case is to correct the pertinent files and post them as an attachment. That way we can all benefit from your efforts, and I won't need to "reinvent the wheel". I would be grateful if you could please spare the few moments to do this for us...
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Hmn... well for these examples I can share some observations. I frequently see Ottomans consolidate the Greek provinces and Anatolia (50/50). Russia has been forming ~75% of my test campaigns. Spain forms in ~20% of my tests. Poland almost always expands successfully. Scandinavian nation decision needs work and is on the list. Burgundy is doomed due to some deterministic event chains inherited by SRI from Magna Mundi (i.e. the Burgundian Inheritance). Switzerland is still too recently modified to post observations about.
Cool, thanks! I will look at these suggestions and fold-in some fixes for the first v0.59 patch. Keep it comin'!
Cheers
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Actually is just about renaming a couple of things in 1224 - Gonder and ETH-Ethiopia history files.If it is a mess, it is not intentional. The most helpful thing you could do in this case is to correct the pertinent files and post them as an attachment. That way we can all benefit from your efforts, and I won't need to "reinvent the wheel". I would be grateful if you could please spare the few moments to do this for us...
Either way, I have the fixed ones uploaded here.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/orhwsk...-%20gonder.txt
http://www.mediafire.com/file/783dgm...20ethiopia.txt
Made them feudal because it reflects better the concept of King of Kings - The Ethiopian emperor was actually ruling over other kings, and it looks pretty feudal to me, despite him having a good amount of power.
Probably "Empire" feels better but for gameplay reasons "Kindgom" is a better choice.
Ammo pusato chitarre e tamburo
pecché 'sta musica s'adda cagnà
simmo briganti e facimmo paura,
e cu a scuppetta vulimmo cantà
I remember somebody commenting on about Imperial reforms and that they are fast? Not sure how you replied but I would like to offer my observation.
The Reich court had just been set for approval (1450) 45 years before it did in history. Nearly two years later, the emperor already has 60% Authority. I also have never seen a reform been denied (The big ones; hereditary emperor etc haven't ever been put forward in my games yet), as it's only bad if you vote no and good to vote yes. Maybe that's why?
Jolly good show!
Cheers
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Yes that is rather speedy, I'll admit. I believe the AI Emperor cheats a bit, as I have seen reforms proposed when the Imperial Authority level was below the required threshold. It is something I have long wondered about, it is time to find the answer. This will need to be addressed by Helius, I'll think of a concise manner to phrase the question and pose it later today. Thanks Dankysh and rabid for noting this and pushing me out of apathy
✛ OPTIMUM SCHOLARUM COGITATIONIS ✛
A Europa Universalis III: Divine Wind Mod focusing on Europe & Asia from 1411-1789.
"Go slow, don't get rushed, ask for help and, most importantly, remember that our scouts report vague rumors that life outside of EU3 exists" - 17blue17
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
