HoI III: For the Motherland 3.05 patch

[Buggsy]

Still not on steam

[Ksyr]

Still not on steam

I used the zip from steam forum and got the right checksum.

[Buggsy]

I used the zip from steam forum and got the right checksum.

I'm not desperate enough to download something a user posted on a 3rd party website forum linking to an different 3rd party website it was uploaded to.

[SuiciSpai]

IMO this patch is very nice, but i had some CTD in FTM with 3.05, when I had none with 3.04

[Syphus]

I'm not desperate enough to download something a user posted on a 3rd party website forum linking to an different 3rd party website it was uploaded to.

Then quit complaining. Enough people have said that it has worked perfectly fine.

[GCZ]

Regarding patch 3.05, I would like to say my thanks to the devs here. I know there are major fixes there, I know there are several new features. All of this is fantastic, sure.

However, what really impressed me about this patch is the fact that it modified the game speed levels now. This is definitely just a minor feature (which however improves playability for micromanaging players like me). But when I saw the devs added even such a tiny request to the patch, I first went "Wow!" and then it convinced me that nothing gets lost on this forum.

So, thanks again for your great work and now let's get back to the GHQ. I've got some invasions to take care of...

[joeenochs]

The system is working as intended

Then I think the intention is not too well, It is not that I don't want any troubles from supply. But what I want is a system where I can understand
why I have trouble at a given moment. But it seems the system behaviour is so non linear that even Paradox can not understand it.

[Lothos]

Then I think the intention is not too well, It is not that I don't want any troubles from supply. But what I want is a system where I can understand
why I have trouble at a given moment. But it seems the system behaviour is so non linear that even Paradox can not understand it.

You assume they don't understand it but they do. Lots of factors come into play, Infrastructure, Partisan numbers etc.... Supply is never a linear number. It fluctuates based on all these factors and more.

[joeenochs]

You assume they don't understand it but they do. Lots of factors come into play, Infrastructure, Partisan numbers etc.... Supply is never a linear number. It fluctuates based on all these factors and more.

Well these are the factors which go into the system and surely Paradox can read their own source code and check these factors. But I am talking about the effects of this system. You were telling me that Germans needed 5000+ supplies a day at certain times and my claim is that Paradox is not able to predict or explain these effects
in any detailed way.
See this video for a visual explanation of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VmTi...eature=related

If they had this kind of understanding they could use it to calculate a proper average for supply demand. This in turn would make the auto sliders
work accurately without any need for a cap in the LUA scripts. What is more I am sure that Germans had a lot of trouble with supply but I don't think that at any given
time they had trouble to understand why their supply situation was poor. So this is what the game should reflect for the player.

[RickInVA]

Well these are the factors which go into the system and surely Paradox can read their own source code and check these factors. But I am talking about the effects of this system. You were telling me that Germans needed 5000+ supplies a day at certain times and my claim is that Paradox is not able to predict or explain these effects
in any detailed way.
See this video for a visual explanation of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VmTi...eature=related

If they had this kind of understanding they could use it to calculate a proper average for supply demand. This in turn would make the auto sliders
work accurately without any need for a cap in the LUA scripts. What is more I am sure that Germans had a lot of trouble with supply but I don't think that at any given
time they had trouble to understand why their supply situation was poor. So this is what the game should reflect for the player.

I agree with your point in general, and I too wish there were a more elegant supply system. However, some situations cause these fluxuations are known (or at least suspected!). For example, lets say you have a group of units that are out of supply due to being surrounded. Once they are back in supply the supply system will send them enough supply to refill them to their 30 day supply. That is a big splash demand. Again, if you Strategic move units they leave their supply behind in the original area (its quicker not to move all those tons of food and ammo) and when they get where they are going the system send them 30 days supply. If that group uses 100 supply a day that is a 3000 supply splash. The "old" supply then makes its way back to the capital so you get a big "return" some time later. If you look at the areas along your chain on the supply map you will see some areas where numbers are in red, that means thet the system wanted to put more through that area but could not. It may compensate by sending more later. There are a lot of reasons and most have been more "figured out" by players than have had it explained by PI. I encourage you to look into it, and maybe you can add to our collective knowledge pool about supply!

[joeenochs]

Interesting, can you point to any threads where these things are studied?

Thinking about how the system could be made more predictable how about reducing the supply capacity of each province. Then there is simply less room for oscillations.
This could be done to an extent where the province capacity is zero and a unit simply draws supply from the depot with a penalty given by the province path between the unit and the depot.

Well maybe you could keep a tiny bit of oscillations just for the fun of it.

[comsubpac]

Interesting, can you point to any threads where these things are studied?

Thinking about how the system could be made more predictable how about reducing the supply capacity of each province. Then there is simply less room for oscillations.
This could be done to an extent where the province capacity is zero and a unit simply draws supply from the depot with a penalty given by the province path between the unit and the depot.

when you reduce the supply throughput you also have to reduce the supply demand and to increase the IC coasts for supply or you will make everything worse. that might reduce the oscillation but that would only be on paper the effects would be the same.
the supply system won't be changed fundamentally and i don't think this is the right thread to discuss it in depth.
the supply system works as intended.

[RickInVA]

Its been a while since there was a goos supply thread, you might have to try to search with Google.

There is also the Arcade Supply Mode which draws supply directly from the pool without having to travel over the map. While that removes the realities of supply difficulties in places like Russia, China and Africa it would provide a more even usage I'd think (never used it myself).

[Lothos]

Its been a while since there was a goos supply thread, you might have to try to search with Google.

There is also the Arcade Supply Mode which draws supply directly from the pool without having to travel over the map. While that removes the realities of supply difficulties in places like Russia, China and Africa it would provide a more even usage I'd think (never used it myself).

Curious you know what the colors all mean for supply or can point me somewhere that explains them? Like the red cross dashes in the province etc... been scratching my head on that stuff.

[joeenochs]

when you reduce the supply throughput you also have to reduce the supply demand and to increase the IC coasts for supply or you will make everything worse. that might reduce the oscillation but that would only be on paper the effects would be the same.
the supply system won't be changed fundamentally and i don't think this is the right thread to discuss it in depth.
the supply system works as intended.

Well maybe I should have opened another thread for this. But this just evolved and I didn't have any initial plans to open
a discussion about supply.
Apart from whether this is the right thread why should we be afraid to discuss something which is so obviously broken?
Lothos and your reaction convince me even more that this is true because otherwise you would explain me how great the system is and how foolish I am
not to see it instead of simply asking me to stop the discussion.

To answer your technical point I understand that you never can adjust a single parameter in a system without adjusting the others as well.
But if I am right my proposal just involves the adjustment of some internal parameters which are already there and not a rewrite of the whole system.

[joeenochs]

There is also the Arcade Supply Mode which draws supply directly from the pool without having to travel over the map. While that removes the realities of supply difficulties in places like Russia, China and Africa it would provide a more even usage I'd think (never used it myself).

I hate the Arcade Supply mode.

[comsubpac]

Well maybe I should have opened another thread for this. But this just evolved and I didn't have any initial plans to open
a discussion about supply.
Apart from whether this is the right thread why should we be afraid to discuss something which is so obviously broken?
Lothos and your reaction convince me even more that this is true because otherwise you would explain me how great the system is and how foolish I am
not to see it instead of simply asking me to stop the discussion.

To answer your technical point I understand that you never can adjust a single parameter in a system without adjusting the others as well.
But if I am right my proposal just involves the adjustment of some parameters which are already there and not a rewrite of the whole system.

well, no offense but it is not broken. it works as intended.
as i said, when you change one parameter (you might even able to mod that) you have to change all other values accordingly.
for example
a+b+c=d
a,b,c=5; d=15
if you change a to 1 and c to 9 d would be still 15.

it works, your units get supply and it gets harder when you advance further. you can research techs and build infrastructure. strategic redeploying causes supply chaos but guess what happened in reality...
i would even say supply for big armies on the eastern front for example works to good. you are nearly always in full supply while in reality they actually starved and had only small amounts of ammunition all that getting worse in winter.

[Sakura_F]

The patch doesn't work for me.

I get a "For the Motherland" is not installed error, but I *do* have FTM.

[comsubpac]

The patch doesn't work for me.

I get a "For the Motherland" is not installed error, but I *do* have FTM.

get the patch from your distributor.

[Lothos]

Well maybe I should have opened another thread for this. But this just evolved and I didn't have any initial plans to open
a discussion about supply.
Apart from whether this is the right thread why should we be afraid to discuss something which is so obviously broken?
Lothos and your reaction convince me even more that this is true because otherwise you would explain me how great the system is and how foolish I am
not to see it instead of simply asking me to stop the discussion.

To answer your technical point I understand that you never can adjust a single parameter in a system without adjusting the others as well.
But if I am right my proposal just involves the adjustment of some internal parameters which are already there and not a rewrite of the whole system.

Then make a mod and I wish you good luck