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Thread: (MOD) Vinland

  1. #141
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallain View Post
    Yes they do. I just said that titles change depending on religion: King of Leon - Sultan of Leon. Christian - Muslim. See?

    However it does seem that the names of kingdoms, duchies, counties and baronies are all set in stone as they are tags (like DAN - Denmark in EU3).
    The latter was the point in question, as I had no doubt I could influence how they're addressed. "Title" refers to several different things in CK2, which will no doubt get confusing (especially when you throw Titular titles into the mix too).

    That's a serious bummer though. I can only hope they at least have some commands to change it in game with Events, otherwise that's a pretty big deal in messing up the mod. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallain View Post
    What you can do is to try and keep the skrŠlings at a low income while giving them a few unique buildings that increase army size and so on substantially (also decrease their upkeep cost). Just putting the idea out here.
    Well yeah, but that's a set amount for all Skraelings with the building, where-as the Beothuk lands would be economically much weaker than the Abenaki tribes. Population-size would mean more significantly settled areas (Holdings in this sense). They wouldn't have a lot of them, and would still be poor compared to bad European provinces, but there shouldn't be artificial modifiers to regulate how Natives behave. They wouldn't be made unplayable, so naturally a human should also be able to make the homeland worthwhile.

    A thing I'm hoping to do, though, is setting provincial modifiers for X number of years (the number gets higher the further away from the Norse settlements you are) that drastically cuts available Cavalry to field. Horses were, after all, introduced to America via European settlers, so it'd take a long time before they started getting cavalry (So you'd have 2 modifiers, for example, that together make you have 0% Cavalry. One runs out sooner and after that you get 35% of the total and once Horses are commonplace enough the limitation disappears).

    Something else to toughen them up would hopefully be that the earlier the starting-date the less unified the tribes are, but as the Vinland colonies grow in power the tribal confederations should start to tighten around them. Might not have mechanisms in place for it during gameplay yet (apart from natural blobbing), but it should at least be there in the History.

  2. #142
    Field Marshal Wallain's Avatar
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    The latter was the point in question, as I had no doubt I could influence how they're addressed. "Title" refers to several different things in CK2, which will no doubt get confusing (especially when you throw Titular titles into the mix too).

    That's a serious bummer though. I can only hope they at least have some commands to change it in game with Events, otherwise that's a pretty big deal in messing up the mod. :/
    It does screw up a lot yeah. Maybe a patch can make it work.


    Well yeah, but that's a set amount for all Skraelings with the building, where-as the Beothuk lands would be economically much weaker than the Abenaki tribes. Population-size would mean more significantly settled areas (Holdings in this sense). They wouldn't have a lot of them, and would still be poor compared to bad European provinces, but there shouldn't be artificial modifiers to regulate how Natives behave. They wouldn't be made unplayable, so naturally a human should also be able to make the homeland worthwhile.

    A thing I'm hoping to do, though, is setting provincial modifiers for X number of years (the number gets higher the further away from the Norse settlements you are) that drastically cuts available Cavalry to field. Horses were, after all, introduced to America via European settlers, so it'd take a long time before they started getting cavalry (So you'd have 2 modifiers, for example, that together make you have 0% Cavalry. One runs out sooner and after that you get 35% of the total and once Horses are commonplace enough the limitation disappears).

    Something else to toughen them up would hopefully be that the earlier the starting-date the less unified the tribes are, but as the Vinland colonies grow in power the tribal confederations should start to tighten around them. Might not have mechanisms in place for it during gameplay yet (apart from natural blobbing), but it should at least be there in the History.
    Alright. As for the last bit, maybe events would be of use here? And of course a lot of triggers.

  3. #143
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallain View Post
    Alright. As for the last bit, maybe events would be of use here? And of course a lot of triggers.
    Ah, didn't mean it'd be impossible to do with the current commands, since I don't have a list of the available ones, just that it'd take work to get it done and it'd be a peripheral issue to actually getting the mod working.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    Ah, didn't mean it'd be impossible to do with the current commands, since I don't have a list of the available ones, just that it'd take work to get it done and it'd be a peripheral issue to actually getting the mod working.
    Ah well. That's great then. Can't wait until the actual release.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    A thing I'm hoping to do, though, is setting provincial modifiers for X number of years (the number gets higher the further away from the Norse settlements you are) that drastically cuts available Cavalry to field. Horses were, after all, introduced to America via European settlers, so it'd take a long time before they started getting cavalry (So you'd have 2 modifiers, for example, that together make you have 0% Cavalry. One runs out sooner and after that you get 35% of the total and once Horses are commonplace enough the limitation disappears).
    When considering Greenland settlers also got to America, there's no reason to consider that they shouldn't have at least small horses-ponies (something like the icelandic pony).
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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urcules View Post
    When considering Greenland settlers also got to America, there's no reason to consider that they shouldn't have at least small horses-ponies (something like the icelandic pony).
    Makes sense. Icelanders however never learned how to fight on horseback in battle. They were only used for traveling during our independence and after that they were quite peaceful. If I remember correctly at least one man joined a Danish cavalry regiment.

    But anyway, in this ahistoric world the Icelanders/Greelanders settled in America and started using horses in battle. They would need any advantages they could get against the many skrŠlings around them.
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  7. #147
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urcules View Post
    When considering Greenland settlers also got to America, there's no reason to consider that they shouldn't have at least small horses-ponies (something like the icelandic pony).
    Quote Originally Posted by olvirki View Post
    Makes sense. Icelanders however never learned how to fight on horseback in battle. They were only used for traveling during our independence and after that they were quite peaceful. If I remember correctly at least one man joined a Danish cavalry regiment.

    But anyway, in this ahistoric world the Icelanders/Greelanders settled in America and started using horses in battle. They would need any advantages they could get against the many skrŠlings around them.
    Indeed. It's primarily a Skraeling handicap as the Norse have direct trading access to more imported horses if rich men deem it necessary for a healthy stock, where-as the natives can just try to capture them in battle or hope that some get loose into the wild. The starting Norse territories wouldn't be penalized, but the ones directly adjacent would have the small penalty, 2 steps out would be the full penalty but for a shorter period than 3 steps out etc. Going conquering doesn't mean they're suddenly well-populated with them, so the Norse would still have to wait out the modifiers (maybe with an event to remove the tougher -100% penalty where wealthy men can purchase enough of them for proper breeding at the cost of X Gold?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallain View Post
    Can't wait until the actual release.
    Neither can I, since it's a huge pain trying to get the map to work in a demo.

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  9. #149
    Commander, US Pacific Fleet Sheridan's Avatar
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    Just a couple observations - I downloaded a few days ago...
    - The vinlandic culture and the althing when mentioned in tooltips, are not capitalized, while most similar things usually are.
    - Some additional popups explaining things (such as the religious choice) in-game might be helpful.
    - if such a thing is possible, may I suggest additional Norse names for potential colonies? Perhaps with an event choice between the standard name and the Vinlandic (which would come up when colonized by Vinland?)? Specifically in areas within easy colonial distance of the Vinland homeland - the Hudson Bay, Gulf Coast and Caribbean Islands areas.
    - again, if such a thing is possible, an event triggered by the first Wabenaki war giving a general with a movement bonus. I've gotten my initial army, and in one campaign my first two replacement armies, wiped out because my army was retreating from a Wabenaki doomstack and they beat me to the next province. Early vinland doesn't have the manpower to fight that kind of a war (you only get enough to build like 3 regiments a year); I had to peace out and give up provinces and my vassal (who promptly got eaten). Being able to retreat effectively would at least let me rebuild the army from something other than zero.
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  10. #150
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    Just a couple observations - I downloaded a few days ago...
    - The vinlandic culture and the althing when mentioned in tooltips, are not capitalized, while most similar things usually are.
    Yeah, sadly that's an issue I'm aware of and not entirely sure how to fix. Might be a conflict that only applies to Localization files, since they work in-game apart from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    - Some additional popups explaining things (such as the religious choice) in-game might be helpful.
    The religious choice? And do you mean Day-1 events explaining things? I'm not entirely sure how to do those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    - if such a thing is possible, may I suggest additional Norse names for potential colonies? Perhaps with an event choice between the standard name and the Vinlandic (which would come up when colonized by Vinland?)? Specifically in areas within easy colonial distance of the Vinland homeland - the Hudson Bay, Gulf Coast and Caribbean Islands areas.
    Honestly I'm not particularly happy with the province-names in general any more. They're quite inconsistent and outdated, so when I get started on a new update of the EU3 side of the mod I probably will update their localization quite a bit. Though for including an event-system for dynamic colonies takes more work since I'd also need Skraeling-provinces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    - again, if such a thing is possible, an event triggered by the first Wabenaki war giving a general with a movement bonus. I've gotten my initial army, and in one campaign my first two replacement armies, wiped out because my army was retreating from a Wabenaki doomstack and they beat me to the next province. Early vinland doesn't have the manpower to fight that kind of a war (you only get enough to build like 3 regiments a year); I had to peace out and give up provinces and my vassal (who promptly got eaten). Being able to retreat effectively would at least let me rebuild the army from something other than zero.
    Did you try to go to war with them straight away? You need to have it as a national ambition to eventually break the Confederacy to the west (building up your surrounding colonies, improving the economy and having a comfortable manpower-buffer), unless they've had bad wars with their other neighbours.

  11. #151
    Commander, US Pacific Fleet Sheridan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    Did you try to go to war with them straight away? You need to have it as a national ambition to eventually break the Confederacy to the west (building up your surrounding colonies, improving the economy and having a comfortable manpower-buffer), unless they've had bad wars with their other neighbours.
    Not straight away, but rather early, yes. I got a mission to colonize Villrland in one game and that triggered them attacking me. In the other game, I didn't even do that (I was trying to colonize the north instead to get a larger base first) and they somehow discovered and attacked me. In both cases, the war happened before my army got its first tech upgrade... and in both cases, they started the war.

    That's one of those "startup messages" I was talking about, though.
    Last edited by Sheridan; 06-03-2012 at 17:30.
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  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    The religious choice? And do you mean Day-1 events explaining things? I'm not entirely sure how to do those.
    Pretty sure you can make events that key off the date and, if you want to make sure the triggers are a little more complex, you could use the fact that Vinland exists and owns some of its starting provinces. Then the event text box could carry the messages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    Honestly I'm not particularly happy with the province-names in general any more. They're quite inconsistent and outdated, so when I get started on a new update of the EU3 side of the mod I probably will update their localization quite a bit. Though for including an event-system for dynamic colonies takes more work since I'd also need Skraeling-provinces.
    Why would you need Skraeling province names? Except for the ones that come with Norse names, they pretty much already have "Native American" names, except for some of the Eastern Caribbean islands. After all, Manhattan, Delaware, Powhatan, Chesapeake, Susquehanna, these are all the names of local Native tribes or Native-language placenames.
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  13. #153
    Would it be alright if I add this mod into the Return to Glory mod for DW? With full credits of course. Really like this mod, looks very well done.

  14. #154
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redgreen99 View Post
    Would it be alright if I add this mod into the Return to Glory mod for DW? With full credits of course. Really like this mod, looks very well done.
    Certainly. Do what you like.

    As I said, though, I'm not particularly happy with the province/city names anymore. Below my current standard and not written to the same format (anglicized somewhat). Has some strange anomalies like "-gathr", which should really be "-gar­r". I have no clue why the English source I originally used had such a crazy transliteration, since it not only makes ­ into th (which it isn't, that's only in the later days of Old English, never in Norse), but also removes one of the R-s. o_o

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    Not straight away, but rather early, yes. I got a mission to colonize Villrland in one game and that triggered them attacking me. In the other game, I didn't even do that (I was trying to colonize the north instead to get a larger base first) and they somehow discovered and attacked me. In both cases, the war happened before my army got its first tech upgrade... and in both cases, they started the war.
    Well, if things get bad you haven't got much to fear from their Navy, so you're still rather safe away from Vegrland. You don't necessarily concede to their demands just because they defeat you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    Why would you need Skraeling province names? Except for the ones that come with Norse names, they pretty much already have "Native American" names, except for some of the Eastern Caribbean islands. After all, Manhattan, Delaware, Powhatan, Chesapeake, Susquehanna, these are all the names of local Native tribes or Native-language placenames.
    I wouldn't necessarily "need" to, apart from the fact I have far more provinces than vanilla, but if I were to write dynamic events I'd want them to be up to my standard, not post-USA versions of them. For example "Pennacook -> Penankuk" or "Ellrigar­r -> Kespukwitk". It's not a big point since, after doing the heavy lifting to make the CK2 mod, I already have a lot of that planned out.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    Certainly. Do what you like.

    As I said, though, I'm not particularly happy with the province/city names anymore. Below my current standard and not written to the same format (anglicized somewhat). Has some strange anomalies like "-gathr", which should really be "-gar­r". I have no clue why the English source I originally used had such a crazy transliteration, since it not only makes ­ into th (which it isn't, that's only in the later days of Old English, never in Norse), but also removes one of the R-s. o_o
    Thanks for the permission... Most would never notice the anomalies, but as a modder I can appreciate always critiquing ones own work.

  16. #156
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    Hi,

    I am playing this mod again and I really love but I have a problem: in 1410's the plaque reached Vinland (me) right now I am in the 1490's and it is still there! When will the modifier go away? It really hets annoying, as I cant expand.

    Thanks.
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  17. #157
    Ceteris Paribus Nuril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchemperor View Post
    Hi,

    I am playing this mod again and I really love but I have a problem: in 1410's the plaque reached Vinland (me) right now I am in the 1490's and it is still there! When will the modifier go away? It really hets annoying, as I cant expand.

    Thanks.
    Hm, that's strange. It's set as duration = 2555. Are you sure you aren't using the beta patch or something like that? This mod is not currently being updated to keep up with those unofficial changes, since I'm focusing on CK2 at the moment. Can't guarantee against oddities then.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuril View Post
    Hm, that's strange. It's set as duration = 2555. Are you sure you aren't using the beta patch or something like that? This mod is not currently being updated to keep up with those unofficial changes, since I'm focusing on CK2 at the moment. Can't guarantee against oddities then.
    That should be the problem.
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  19. #159
    i have a question to ask. the 'svarti daudi' keeps appearing and idk how to get rid of it. its really annoying

  20. #160
    Colonel olvirki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobby fizzle View Post
    i have a question to ask. the 'svarti daudi' keeps appearing and idk how to get rid of it. its really annoying
    What nation are you playing and how many times does it appear in each game ?
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