General Discussion

[TheDarkMaster]

Adding Judaism and Zoroastrianism as religions is a tricky concept, mainly because neither of these religions had much organized impact during this time period. No states existed from which we can extrapolate qualities and then there's also the incredibly hypothetical nature of what those states would ahve been like and what would have happened to them.

We need a sociologist.

It would be mostly guesswork comparing their ideals to those of the religions that did exist at the time. Anyone want to take a stab at it?

Fortunately, a lot of the religions already heavily abstracted, and we don't have to worry about heads of the religions like the Catholics. Unfortunately, we have no historical religious acts that we could implement, they'd all have to be made up.

[Leobama Bama]

Hello are you questioning about the Mexican zone? if you want help i am the indicated( im from here. As well you guys indicated there no was Aztec Empire it was the Triple Alianza i sugest they could be 3 nations wich are the Texcoco,Tenochtitlan and Tlacopan seniors.The leader will be Tenochtitlan and the will have an alliance,royal marriage,Etc.Also they had a lake the Texcoco Lake in wich the nation who conquer them could dry the lake (as actually happen) It could give More population i dont know.Also the aztec already use canoas a ship were in Siege odf the capital was used to delay the spanish Bergantines(the dryfication of the lake could reload the game using the decision save the game obviously and then vualla there will be less lake and new province its hard i know and even impossible but i only want to help)And finally to end this look at this maphttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Aztecexpansion.png

P.S Also dont forget the florid wars were the aztecs atacked the Tlaxcaltecs for prisioners for(the tlaxcaltecs also were good figthers they could have improvemens in they) their gods

[Nim2]

So if someone is playing the Majapahits, are they effectively screwed? I started a game up with them, and I'm being spammed with this event to the point where my prestiage, stab, and legitimacy is effectively nuked. Is there any point to playing this country or no?

Go to the malaya mod thread and read the last pages. I was playing Majapahit and it can be done.

Edit: Actually let's do this here. Those events are supposed to fire from ~1400 to ~ 1500. D&T has version 0.2 of the malaya mod which doesn't quite work as it should so you need the majapahitcollapse.txt from the 0.3 version. The easiest way to get out of the mess is to form Malaya as the events only fire for Majapahit ( but Malayas colour sucks^^). I stayed Majapahit and simply was at -3 stab all the time which isn't actually that bad. Never let anyone break free and your prestige and legitimacy will be fine. If you convert to Sunni you will get holy war which makes things really easy, staying hindu is a pain but doable.

[Dafool]

So if someone is playing the Majapahits, are they effectively screwed? I started a game up with them, and I'm being spammed with this event to the point where my prestiage, stab, and legitimacy is effectively nuked. Is there any point to playing this country or no?

These events my be altered or removed at some point. Even if the Majapahits are supposed to fall apart, we need to make it natural, not the result of a series of events designed solely to nerf them. Perhaps Krankovich can come up with something more dynamic to keep that process under control.

Hello are you questioning about the Mexican zone? if you want help i am the indicated( im from here. As well you guys indicated there no was Aztec Empire it was the Triple Alianza i sugest they could be 3 nations wich are the Texcoco,Tenochtitlan and Tlacopan seniors.The leader will be Tenochtitlan and the will have an alliance,royal marriage,Etc.Also they had a lake the Texcoco Lake in wich the nation who conquer them could dry the lake (as actually happen) It could give More population i dont know.Also the aztec already use canoas a ship were in Siege odf the capital was used to delay the spanish Bergantines(the dryfication of the lake could reload the game using the decision save the game obviously and then vualla there will be less lake and new province its hard i know and even impossible but i only want to help)And finally to end this look at this maphttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Aztecexpansion.png

P.S Also dont forget the florid wars were the aztecs atacked the Tlaxcaltecs for prisioners for(the tlaxcaltecs also were good figthers they could have improvemens in they) their gods

Most of what you've suggested has been added in one way or another. The only limitation is on including all the city-states, since many of the important ones are so small and so compacted that they have to exist as a single province and single nation. In any case, if you have any suggestions for the area that I haven't already included or decided against, feel free to throw them out there.

[Leobama Bama]

I will be your helper there also i could help in the Inca zone but well the nation called Cozumel actually is the island http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...intana_Roo.svg the Island and the province could be divided the island of Cozumel could be1 no colonised territory or 2 the country could be the nation the (spanish also used the island like base so i will be more convinced for the one) And for the posteriors scenaries the Aztecs are a nation they disappaeread in 13 of august in the 1521 year Also Magallanes In the escenario of 1519 he will be localizaded in the coast of Brazil.

P.S Any dude do you have about this zone (Mexico) call me.

[Krankovich]

These events my be altered or removed at some point. Even if the Majapahits are supposed to fall apart, we need to make it natural, not the result of a series of events designed solely to nerf them. Perhaps Krankovich can come up with something more dynamic to keep that process under control.

Hopefully I can. However, until I can figure out a way to do that, railroading the collapse via event is the best thing I can do. Sorry.

Also, speaking of the Malaya Mod, Gigau just finished making an altered map of the region for me with a couple extra provinces (like Singapore and Kalimantan). Hopefully that won't be too much of a pain for Luke to integrate when I finish and publish v.0.04. If they are, I suppose I'll just have to make a Vanilla-map version of 0.04 with all the improvements I'm planning minus the new content due to the extra provinces.

[Dafool]

Hopefully I can. However, until I can figure out a way to do that, railroading the collapse via event is the best thing I can do. Sorry

Understandable. I'd suggest changing the events to have several options. Rebels, decentralization, losing ducats, relation hits, stab hits, etc. You could also make several variations of the event with different drawbacks. Each event should probably have the option to free a random vassal. You can also easily increase the frequency of the events based on the size of the nation and the number of vassals.

Also, speaking of the Malaya Mod, Gigau just finished making an altered map of the region for me with a couple extra provinces (like Singapore and Kalimantan). Hopefully that won't be too much of a pain for Luke to integrate when I finish and publish v.0.04. If they are, I suppose I'll just have to make a Vanilla-map version of 0.04 with all the improvements I'm planning minus the new content due to the extra provinces.

We're currently trying to merge the latest DAO map into D&T, but we're experiencing some difficulties that are making this quite difficult. Any additional map changes are going to have to wait at least until we get that problem solved.

[Nim2]

Understandable. I'd suggest changing the events to have several options. Rebels, decentralization, losing ducats, relation hits, stab hits, etc. You could also make several variations of the event with different drawbacks. Each event should probably have the option to free a random vassal. You can also easily increase the frequency of the events based on the size of the nation and the number of vassals.

The only time I would free a vassal looking at those options would be a decentralize move. Rebels, losings ducats and stab hits aren't really a problem as player Majapahit. Not sure what relation hits would do, my non-hindu vassals were at -200 most of the time and never tried anything. I think the problem with the collapse events is that no outside power tries to capitalize on it. You have an AI Majapahit at -3 stab, 0 legit and -99 prestige but nobody attacks them. Could be sample size issues but thats what I'm seeing.

Also is there any reason why even as a SE nation like Champa I can't see half of the indonesian region without waiting for map spread or QftNW ? Highly annoying when you play with 200 years spread.

[Dafool]

The only time I would free a vassal looking at those options would be a decentralize move. Rebels, losings ducats and stab hits aren't really a problem as player Majapahit. Not sure what relation hits would do, my non-hindu vassals were at -200 most of the time and never tried anything. I think the problem with the collapse events is that no outside power tries to capitalize on it. You have an AI Majapahit at -3 stab, 0 legit and -99 prestige but nobody attacks them. Could be sample size issues but thats what I'm seeing.

The AI can be told to do these things in certain percentages, thus making collapse likely, but not forced. A player would also be forced to better handle their resources in the early game. There's a lot that could be done, so I'm sure with a bit of help Krankovich can easily get something a bit more dynamic into place.

[starwarsfan541]

I had an idea recently that maybe Zoroastrian could be represented in Mazandran like in Magna Mundi, with the possibility of creating a Zoroastrian or Christian order/ regional kingdom or forming Persia like the Safavids and the Sufi's.

[Duke of Britain]

I had an idea recently that maybe Zoroastrian could be represented in Mazandran like in Magna Mundi, with the possibility of creating a Zoroastrian or Christian order/ regional kingdom or forming Persia like the Safavids and the Sufi's.

Sounds cool.

About religious decisions, we could have one for Jews about : "Uniting all the Jews" (could have some missions about this as well)

Now Zoroatrinism...IMO, missions related to conquering Persia and some decisions related to destroying muslim influence in the region (+ missionaries and + conversion chance?)

[starwarsfan541]

Sounds cool.

About religious decisions, we could have one for Jews about : "Uniting all the Jews" (could have some missions about this as well)

Now Zoroatrinism...IMO, missions related to conquering Persia and some decisions related to destroying muslim influence in the region (+ missionaries and + conversion chance?)

Here is my outline for my ideas I am going to start modding later in the week-
New Cultures
Assyrian
Pontic Greek
Coptic
Kurdish

New Religions
Zoroastrianism
Assyrian
Coptic

New Events
Zoroastrian Revolt
Zoroastrian Revival

Assyrian Revolt
Assyrian Revolution

Turmoil in Egypt
Coptic Rioting
Ethiopian Intervention
Coptic Revolution

Kurdish Revolt
Kurdish Revolution

Revival of the Church of the East
Christian Militias
Zoroastrian Religious Order

New Countries
Coptic Egypt
Imperial Persia (Zoroastrian Persia)
Assyria
The Assyrian Order (Militiant order of the Church of the East)
Pontic Union (Georgia + Armenia + Trebizond)
Kurdistan

New Governments
Theocratic Monarchies
Religous Orders EX: Sufi's, Assyrian Knights

Any other ideas/ suggestions?

[mozgow]

I would like to see Elective Monarchy as form of government.

[Duke of Britain]

Elective Monarchy = Noble Republic

Also, theocratic Monarchies would probably be better off being a decision for high narrowminded Monarchies

[starwarsfan541]

Elective Monarchy = Noble Republic

Also, theocratic Monarchies would probably be better off being a decision for high narrowminded Monarchies

Agreed, however its main purpose is for the Safavid Dynasty so they can operate like a monarchy and still be religious.

[TheDarkMaster]

Jewish religious missions could related to regaining Jerusalem (if it isn't already under Jewish control), and an event where the religion first pops up could be much more likely in Judea and Palestine. They should have the option to form Israel if a Jewish nation controls Judea, giving a core on it and moving the capital to it. Israel should gain missions to reclaim various regions or places that are sacred to the religion, and to fight against the other religious groups that marginalized them in the first place. For the most part, they'd be trying to carve out a place for themselves.

I guess rather then naming specific acts, we should think of various things that should be available as religious decisions, and then figure out appropriate names. Important ones I can think of:
-Boost Missionary chance
-Boost Annual Missionaries
-Reduce stability costs
-Reduce Revolt Risk
-Increase Tax Mod

[Duke of Britain]

Jewish religious missions could related to regaining Jerusalem (if it isn't already under Jewish control), and an event where the religion first pops up could be much more likely in Judea and Palestine. They should have the option to form Israel if a Jewish nation controls Judea, giving a core on it and moving the capital to it. Israel should gain missions to reclaim various regions or places that are sacred to the religion, and to fight against the other religious groups that marginalized them in the first place. For the most part, they'd be trying to carve out a place for themselves.

I guess rather then naming specific acts, we should think of various things that should be available as religious decisions, and then figure out appropriate names. Important ones I can think of:
-Boost Missionary chance
-Boost Annual Missionaries
-Reduce stability costs
-Reduce Revolt Risk
-Increase Tax Mod

And then...why would a Jewish country in say, North America, would try to invade Judea, form Israel and move its capital there?

[TheDarkMaster]

And then...why would a Jewish country in say, North America, would try to invade Judea, form Israel and move its capital there?

I don't really expect a Jewish nation to actually form in North America, but right now the mission to recover Jerusalem for a Christian nation can fire for one of the Native American nations that converts over to Christianity...

However, if Israel is going to form, its capital should be Jerusalem. Perhaps the decision to form Israel should require that the capital already be in Jerusalem, and have an event triggers when it is Jewish that gives the owner the option to move their capital there, create Israel as a vassal state out of Jerusalem, or keep things the way they are. There could also be a one time event that can fire that gives a non-Jewish nation the option to let a Jewish Jerusalem form Israel, or face a major revolt. That could actually be the final stage in a resurgence of Judaism event chain under certain circumstances.

[Leobama Bama]

Also Mexico losed Central America in 1823 due to dissolution of the Empire.

[Maver1ck]

And then...why would a Jewish country in say, North America, would try to invade Judea, form Israel and move its capital there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judism#...mage_festivals

Because they would want to have the pilgrimages. Jerusalem is their homeland - it isn't much more fanciful (arguably less so) than the British Empire giving them Israel. If under muslim domination - the dome of the rock is built on top of one of their most holy sites, and would likely be the same in this timeline - causing great rage for any pious jew.

Plus, it is the seat of Solomon - their ancestral homeland. The centre of their religious universe - whilst governance may be impractical, I can imagine a huge migration to a newly conquered Jerusalem.