• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Please everyone, clam down and think before you post. It always pays to be nice and reasonable.
 
I think the mechanism is interesting and just hope that there are safeguards to prevent its abuse.

If not many players will go like this: Amass land, commit suicide, receive some honor back and gain a bit more over time, amass land, commit suicide... Which would eventually turn the game into a one-dimensional chore, thus killing the fun.
 
If you are low on honour and want to restore some, and have some heirs, you can always commit seppuku, which will restore some honor to your family.

i dont like this... not only its hardly logical(it was quite usual that if daimyo commits seppuku, so does his heirs), but probably can be used as expliot: dont like your daimyo? kill him and get his son to power...
 
I doubt seppuku is something that will be taken lightly, because every 'succession' can potentially cause many issues. So long as this is properly modelled, we'll be alright.
 
i dont like this... not only its hardly logical(it was quite usual that if daimyo commits seppuku, so does his heirs), but probably can be used as expliot: dont like your daimyo? kill him and get his son to power...

Assuming he actually agrees to it. If he doesn't then well he won't like you much and you have even more problems.
 
And please people, have some respect, don't call it 'kill/off himself', call it ritual or ceremony and people would still understand what you are talking about.

Whats the point in respecting a few lines of code in a video game?

Also, what happens when an AI clan runs out of honor?
 
Assuming he actually agrees to it. If he doesn't then well he won't like you much and you have even more problems.

I gather that if the Daimyo refuses, either some heads are gonna roll, or it's civil war.
 
Very much agreed that instant-lose at zero honor is bad. Maybe it should just automatically kill the head of the clan, and then the retainers and family members fight it out for dominance, similar to what happened after Nobunaga Oda died.
 
Eh?!! i thought the player is playing head of family in sengoku?

I think you can player as a lesser land holder in the family, too. Perhaps that is what King is referring too? In which case, does that imply we can ask our overlord to kill himself for the good of the clan? That just screams of exploits, unless it's nigh impossible except in direst need.
 
Just a quick question. Does Christianity have any weight on seppuku, since suicide is strongly discouraged in that belief system? And do you have a choice of who serves as your assistant, or second, in the ritual?
 
I'll echo the others here: There is a danger here of seppuku turning into a gamey exploit. While we can certainly disagree on whether it is honorable according to our own beliefs and dispositions, I'd expect one of the more well known components of feudal Japanese culture to receive the respect due.

On the other hand, done correctly this can be a powerful immersion tool. Perhaps instead of a button, this is best left as an event that fires when the clan has very low honor. As King inferred, perhaps the character decides he's done nothing wrong and refuses, plunging the clan into civil war. Perhaps the fact your ruler felt the need to do this ruins your clan's stability and doesn't do your heirs any favors. (Perhaps some of the heirs and retainers spontaneously join their lord in death - it sounds plausible given Japanese culture and adds a random element.)

I think the balance here is to make it either not entirely in your control (event), or inherently dangerous enough (crashed stab, the lord refuses making the situation much worse, random retainers also commit seppuku), that this is very rare. It should be used only in the most critical of situations (similar to MM's surrender events when your infamy boils over) when otherwise it could be game over, as opposed to simply a way to effectively burn off badboy/infamy.
 
I'd like to believe that Paradox thought through the seppuku feature and believe they will implement it well.

However, I am more concerned about the idea that Bushido and chivalry both were big things in their respective times, and not post-period romantic ideas of the era. :(
 
I think that it will be balanced. Clan leaders could of course impose it on an unpopular member for the purpose of eliminating an up-and-comer. Even in honor cultures, justice was not always impartial.

As to the bushido/chivalry issue, I think that it was an underlying part of what was expected, could become a weapon against an enemy, but in practice it was an ideal, a set of guidelines for practice when everyone was watching. The important part of collective honor was saving face when outsiders threatened, protecting your own, but if the clan was divided against itself, things could really break down fast. Some took it more seriously than others, of course, and there were idealists and realists as in any society.
 
I'll echo the others here: There is a danger here of seppuku turning into a gamey exploit. [snip]

(Perhaps some of the heirs and retainers spontaneously join their lord in death - it sounds plausible given Japanese culture and adds a random element.)

See, I like this. It's plausible (heirs and retainers did join lords who made this choice sometimes), and it balances what might otherwise be a powerful exploit. If you restrict it in certain ways (low/nil honor) and allow for the possibility of important retainers and heirs to make a choice to join the character in their decision, then it can't be abused and could even be left to the player. The decision to salvage the clan's honor could carry with it the consequence of losing other important members of the clan.

You could even also make it a multi-tiered decision, where the player initiates seppuku with a character, some other AI characters choose to do so as well, and then each character choosing this method of salvaging honor chooses his second, giving a boost to that person's honor. You could even have an event that indicates how the ritual was performed. Given the variety of methods employed (my personal favorite being the warriors who reached for a fan instead of a tanto, thus signalling their second to decapitate them), it would even be plausible to have multiple outcomes of the ritual. The outcome would dictate the after effects. The "better" the seppuku, the more beneficial it is. If it turns out to be a forced punishment that the victim resists in some fashion, the clan/family may still lose honor and properties.
 
but if they completely remove the system and make it an event instead of a button... how can we get rid of turtle rulrers? maybe they can leave it as a button, but depending on the situation, it dictates the outcome?
 
I think you can player as a lesser land holder in the family, too. Perhaps that is what King is referring too? In which case, does that imply we can ask our overlord to kill himself for the good of the clan? That just screams of exploits, unless it's nigh impossible except in direst need.

No, but you can ask your vassal Daimyos to.
 
I'll echo others in the statement that a suicide button with a positive effect isnt a good idea, strays alittle to close to evil and illegality too. The game shouldnt reward the player for his character failing utterly and certainly no game should reward or give positive motivation for a suicide. Not just because it has moral implications but also because it rings a little to close to endorsement or glorification of suicide which is a serious crime in itself in most western countries. and although this game probably isnt mainstream enough for it to become an issue if the wrong paper got wind of it on a slow news day it could still bring a reputation onto paradox that wouldnt be desired.
It should be an option with negative consequences only. Leave beneficial rewards for those actions which are worthy of them. Rather than putting in rewards and benefits to give motivation for the player to take bad actions.
Suicide should not be rewarded. at the very least it shouldnt be presented as the easy-way-out or as a quick way to get a few points as it is most certainly neither. As a way of getting rid of a failing character whose mere existance is dragging down the honour points then it might be acceptable, but there should not be instant point rewards or any beneficial gains from such an act. It should be a negative option with negative effects taken rarely and when there is no other option, not a positive option with benefits taken to get the honour points up in a hurry.

But the rest of it sounds good, does honour always reduce over time if nothing is happening like with prestige? So extended inaction would lead to losing the game?
 
Just a quick question. Does Christianity have any weight on seppuku, since suicide is strongly discouraged in that belief system? And do you have a choice of who serves as your assistant, or second, in the ritual?

Not really different, they would ask a retainer to kill them instead. That's what Hosokawa Gracia did, anyway.