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Thread: Werewolf CX: Do Cylons dream of Electric Sheep?

  1. #41
    The doomsayer randakar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    In

    I shall make a post in the new WW game up thread for you. I missed this as I spend all my time looking at my subscribed threads :P
    That is actually on purpose. I wanted to sneak this thread in quietly. I was delaying the announcement until after the other Big game ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    Also, here's my idea for something to go along with the theme:

    Each player has, say 1 in 6 chance to be a wolf of pack A, 1 in 6 chance to be wolf of pack B, 10% chance to be cultist, 5% chance to be sorceror, 5% chance to be a seer, and so on, they are mutually exclusive.

    Then they have a ~10% chance to have trait A, 10% chance to have trait B, etc. These are not mutually exclusive.

    You use a site like random.org to pick a number between 1 and 100 for the role, then another number for each trait.

    You make no guarantees about roles, so there could be four priests, or unbalanced packs.
    No offense, but that is a really stupid idea. Losing all semblance of balance in a game is easy enough without using the dictate of a random number generator for your setup .. and I really don't see what that has to do with the theme at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    I also assume that this will not begin until the ongoing one is over
    It won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    I will also try and think up some new roles.
    New roles aren't really needed. What is needed is for someone to think about events in the TV series and then attempt to translate it into werewolf roles/traits what have you. Without imbalancing the game very much, thank you.
    I think I have things covered, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    Okay, here's how you'd do it:

    ...

    Do you like it?
    Not really, no. 6 wolves in a pack, 2 cultists that aren't actually affiliated with any pack at all (giving them the worst role in the game unless you make them scanners.. and then there wouldn't be a priest to scan for them.) 2 seers is ok with this many wolves, but with 2 GA's you will have a very high chance of having an unkillable Justice League spokesperson. And as Joeb noted, wolf pack 3 would be up against some very stiff odds there.
    Even worse, though: Villagers cannot use any analysis regarding the setup to get them an idea of what they are up against. People should be able to guess at least a little bit here.
    So: Nah.


    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    I...

    I would like to see a little twist on Big.
    You'll get it. There are always little twists. This game will be no different.
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  2. #42
    I'm not looking at balance yet, just purely looking at translating characters to game mechanics:

    The final five would not be aware of their identity. To a seer scan, they would appear as wolves. To a priest scan, they would appear as cultists. If made aware of their identity, perhaps by private GM reveal to them when down to a certain number of players, they would get to choose which side to choose with.

    Again, no consideration of whether that's balanced - purely looking at translating the series to mechanics, and that'd be a pretty serious twist. You might be able to get something workable by keeping parts and discarding others, though.

    Priest would be some kind of interrogator.

    Edit: If you didn't want to mess with the rules too much, you could just make final five = cursed
    Last edited by Capt. Kiwi; 14-07-2011 at 09:52.

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  3. #43
    I would like to join this game: In.

  4. #44
    The doomsayer randakar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Kiwi View Post
    I'm not looking at balance yet, just purely looking at translating characters to game mechanics:

    The final five would not be aware of their identity. To a seer scan, they would appear as wolves. To a priest scan, they would appear as cultists. If made aware of their identity, perhaps by private GM reveal to them when down to a certain number of players, they would get to choose which side to choose with.

    Again, no consideration of whether that's balanced - purely looking at translating the series to mechanics, and that'd be a pretty serious twist. You might be able to get something workable by keeping parts and discarding others, though.

    Priest would be some kind of interrogator.

    Edit: If you didn't want to mess with the rules too much, you could just make final five = cursed
    Roles that can choose their side whenever they want really aren't so great for game balance. If the game looks like it might lean towards one side or the other, they will probably choose the side that has the upper hand, turning a balanced game into a steamroller.
    So no.

    As for scanning as Cylons .. yeah, that has to be a given. Scanning as cultists from a thematic perspective though .. hmn. I guess they do count as "symphatizers". And it will give the JL some way to confirm people as a part of the Final Five. But note that this is a trait ..

    What does this do to baddie scanners though? An independent baddie who scans for wolves or whatnot will be rather hard pressed to contact anyone he scans as a fellow baddie if his scan result cannot be trusted. Having them be able to contact packs is what that scanning ability is for.
    So I will probably make this trait only affect the Seer / Priest, not the baddie scanners. I'm sure the baddies know better who is on their side and who isn't.

    As for the people themselves knowing what they are - it depends a bit on whether I make them into a Guardian Council or not. If I use the Guardian Council mechanic they will know each other, and vote amongst themselves to give somebody GA style protection. If I don't, I need to think about what that does to outings and such.


    edit: Tamius, can you please use the top of the first post for your announcement, instead of what you have used right now? Thanks.
    Last edited by randakar; 14-07-2011 at 10:35.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by randakar View Post
    Roles that can choose their side whenever they want really aren't so great for game balance. If the game looks like it might lean towards one side or the other, they will probably choose the side that has the upper hand, turning a balanced game into a steamroller.
    So no.

    As for scanning as Cylons .. yeah, that has to be a given. Scanning as cultists from a thematic perspective though .. hmn. I guess they do count as "symphatizers". And it will give the JL some way to confirm people as a part of the Final Five. But note that this is a trait ..

    What does this do to baddie scanners though? An independent baddie who scans for wolves or whatnot will be rather hard pressed to contact anyone he scans as a fellow baddie if his scan result cannot be trusted. Having them be able to contact packs is what that scanning ability is for.
    So I will probably make this trait only affect the Seer / Priest, not the baddie scanners. I'm sure the baddies know better who is on their side and who isn't.

    As for the people themselves knowing what they are - it depends a bit on whether I make them into a Guardian Council or not. If I use the Guardian Council mechanic they will know each other, and vote amongst themselves to give somebody GA style protection. If I don't, I need to think about what that does to outings and such.


    edit: Tamius, can you please use the top of the first post for your announcement, instead of what you have used right now? Thanks.
    Like I said, I was mainly throwing ideas out there. If the final five can only win with the goodies, it might make having the priest scan them as cultist and the seer scan them as wolf more interesting - should they out someone if they might actually be on their side, and just take the risk? Or should they wait till linking up with the other scanner? The sorceror would probably know they're final five on scanning, and probably wants to leave them alive as a distraction. Of course, that shifts the balance to the wolves - unless you give the final five some sort of use, like knowing each other or some sort of group protection, as you suggested.

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  6. #46
    Field Marshal reis91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randakar
    I am also considering turning the offensive hunter into an item that can be passed on to other people. Mostly for flavour purposes, since I doubt people would actually use that option a lot, but *shrug*
    EL tried that a long time ago, and it didn't work so well.

    What about a weapon that decomposes itself after a few days, if not used? There can be several on the ship, and they will be "found" throughout the game according to the GM Plan. (ie, when a weapon is destroyed, someone else finds another and gains the ability to kill).
    Come and hunt your fellow Paradoxians in the Werewolf Forum

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  7. #47
    Practitioner of "Calm Rage" joebthegreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Kiwi View Post
    Like I said, I was mainly throwing ideas out there. If the final five can only win with the goodies, it might make having the priest scan them as cultist and the seer scan them as wolf more interesting - should they out someone if they might actually be on their side, and just take the risk? Or should they wait till linking up with the other scanner? The sorcerer would probably know they're final five on scanning, and probably wants to leave them alive as a distraction. Of course, that shifts the balance to the wolves - unless you give the final five some sort of use, like knowing each other or some sort of group protection, as you suggested.
    Such brilliant ideas, promising to change the shape of werewolf forever. Such amazing creativity, bringing fresh thought to the table.

    Oh Capt. Kiwi, my muse! Of you I can speak no ill. Your ideas are surpassed only by your eloquent presentation of them. When you speak the world can do naught but listen. When you are silent, the world goes still.

    How ever you should make the Final Five work, I place my complete trust that it shall be perfectly done. Your skill in creating game concepts that are balanced and enjoyable for all is unsurpassed. Your knowledge of this game dwarfs that of any other man. Yet Capt. Kiwi is so much more than just a man.

    *sigh*
    Come play our most recent game of werewolf, or diplomacy
    Werewolf MICRO: Wolf: 1(1 wins) TOTAL: 1(1 wins) || GMed: 0(0 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    Werewolf LITE: Villager: 20(40 wins) Wolf: 11(33 wins) Seer: 2(4 wins) TOTAL: 33(66 wins) || GMed: 11100101(0 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    Werewolf BIG: Villager: 1(600 wins) Wolf: 600(1 wins) Cultist: 2(2 wins) Priest: 1(1 wins) Lover: 1*(1 wins) Thief: 1(1 wins) TOTAL: 20(1 wins) || GMed: 1(200 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    GRAND TOTAL: 2(0 wins) || GM TOTAL: 0(42 goodie wins/42 baddie wins)
    ----------
    Diplomacy: Great Britain: 0(0 wins) France: 0(0 wins) Germany: 0(0 wins) Austria: 0(0 wins) Italy: 1(0 wins) Russia: 0(0 wins) Turkey: 0(0 wins) TOTAL: 0(0 wins) || GMed: 1(0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins)

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  8. #48
    A man? Bah! Euro seems to think I am the secret love child of Thistletooth, Olaus, von Loch Ness and a sheep.

    More seriously, I generally favour less-is-more when tinkering with rules. Final five as cursed would be passable, if you wanted to keep it simple. Hopefully I can give randakar a good idea though.

    If you want a picture of the future, imagine an episode of Mr. Bean—forever.

  9. #49
    Practitioner of "Calm Rage" joebthegreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Kiwi View Post
    A man? Bah! Euro seems to think I am the secret love child of Thistletooth, Olaus, von Loch Ness and a sheep.

    More seriously, I generally favour less-is-more when tinkering with rules. Final five as cursed would be passable, if you wanted to keep it simple. Hopefully I can give randakar a good idea though.
    A man after my own heart. You have me Capt. Kiwi! Oh you have me! And never let go!!!
    Come play our most recent game of werewolf, or diplomacy
    Werewolf MICRO: Wolf: 1(1 wins) TOTAL: 1(1 wins) || GMed: 0(0 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    Werewolf LITE: Villager: 20(40 wins) Wolf: 11(33 wins) Seer: 2(4 wins) TOTAL: 33(66 wins) || GMed: 11100101(0 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    Werewolf BIG: Villager: 1(600 wins) Wolf: 600(1 wins) Cultist: 2(2 wins) Priest: 1(1 wins) Lover: 1*(1 wins) Thief: 1(1 wins) TOTAL: 20(1 wins) || GMed: 1(200 goodie wins/0 baddie wins)
    GRAND TOTAL: 2(0 wins) || GM TOTAL: 0(42 goodie wins/42 baddie wins)
    ----------
    Diplomacy: Great Britain: 0(0 wins) France: 0(0 wins) Germany: 0(0 wins) Austria: 0(0 wins) Italy: 1(0 wins) Russia: 0(0 wins) Turkey: 0(0 wins) TOTAL: 0(0 wins) || GMed: 1(0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins/0 wins)

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  10. #50
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  11. #51
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    So say we all! IN please.
    "My good man, this is not the time for making enemies." - Voltaire, on his deathbed, when asked to renounce Satan.

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  12. #52
    Indefatigable Psychotic tamius23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randakar View Post
    edit: Tamius, can you please use the top of the first post for your announcement, instead of what you have used right now? Thanks.
    Sorry, what do you mean by that?

  13. #53
    Hackworth H. Hackington II Esq marty99's Avatar
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    Allow me to fully consider the implications, in their entirety, of tamius23's bold proposal:
    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    In

    I shall make a post in the new WW game up thread for you. I missed this as I spend all my time looking at my subscribed threads :P

    Also, here's my idea for something to go along with the theme:

    Each player has, say 1 in 6 chance to be a wolf of pack A, 1 in 6 chance to be wolf of pack B, 10% chance to be cultist, 5% chance to be sorceror, 5% chance to be a seer, and so on, they are mutually exclusive.

    Then they have a ~10% chance to have trait A, 10% chance to have trait B, etc. These are not mutually exclusive.

    You use a site like random.org to pick a number between 1 and 100 for the role, then another number for each trait.

    You make no guarantees about roles, so there could be four priests, or unbalanced packs.

    I've been thinking about this for a while, and I wanted to GM a big game with the tamius twist as outlined above, but I don't think I'll be able to.

    I also assume that this will not begin until the ongoing one is over, as I'm still alive, despite having my identity showed ~day 3!

    What do you think of my twist?

    -Tami

    I will also try and think up some new roles.

    Okay, here's how you'd do it:

    A player has an:
    11% chance of being a Pack 1 wolf
    11% chance of being a Pack 2 wolf
    11% chance of being a Pack 3 wolf
    3% chance of being a priest
    5% chance of being a cultist
    3% chance of being a seer
    3% chance of being a sorceror
    3% chance of being a GA
    3% chance of being a doctor
    thus 47% chance of being a villager.

    Traits:

    First you randomise who is to be a leader, 2nd in command, and 3rd in command (and so on)
    Then each player has a 10% chance to be SA, a 3% chance to be a witness, a 3% chance to be a thief, a 3% chance to be a spy, a 3% chance to be a spiritual witness, a 7% chance to be cursed, a 5% chance to be blessed, a 5% chance to be brutal, a 3% chance to be a hunter and a 3% chance to be a martial artist.

    Obviously, if a player gets a role like GA, then they cannot be cursed, so skip over it.

    So first you get 32 random numbers (I assume 32, otherwise fewer) to decide the roles:



    If the number is between 0 and 11, they are pack 1, 12 and 22, pack 2, and so on.

    So the roles would be:

    Wolf, pack 1
    cultist
    guardian angel
    villager
    Wolf, pack 1
    Wolf, pack 1
    villager
    Wolf, pack 1
    villager
    cultist
    villager
    villager
    villager
    seer
    villager
    villager
    villager
    Wolf, pack 3
    Wolf, pack 1
    Wolf, pack 1
    villager
    seer
    villager
    villager
    villager
    villager
    guardian angel
    villager
    villager
    wolf, pack 3

    Then you do the chance to be cursed, and ignore those ineligible, such as wolves:




    Players 1, 29 and 21 would be cursed, but 1 is a wolf, 29 is a GA, and 29 is a seer. Alternatively, you could just pick from those eligible. Or move up the possibility.

    You order your 32 numbers to determine the leader through 32nd in command:

    etc

    first three were 6, 29 and 5, and those would be leader through 3rd in command. Keep the rest of the sequence.

    You then roll for each of the other traits, and hand them out.

    Do you like it?
    Dear God, no.

  14. #54
    Indefatigable Psychotic tamius23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marty99 View Post
    Allow me to fully consider the implications, in their entirety, of tamius23's bold proposal:

    Dear God, no.
    Alright, forget it.


  15. #55
    The doomsayer randakar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reis91 View Post
    EL tried that a long time ago, and it didn't work so well.
    It worked fine. Sure, some people were hogging the items a bit, but the fact that you make something moveable doesn't mean it has to move all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by reis91 View Post
    What about a weapon that decomposes itself after a few days, if not used? There can be several on the ship, and they will be "found" throughout the game according to the GM Plan. (ie, when a weapon is destroyed, someone else finds another and gains the ability to kill).
    Actually I thought having weapons laying about sans ammo is the much more sane and interesting option. Especially if people need to coöperate to put them together.


    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Kiwi View Post
    More seriously, I generally favour less-is-more when tinkering with rules. Final five as cursed would be passable, if you wanted to keep it simple. Hopefully I can give randakar a good idea though.
    This is very true. And I don't intend to do anything really complicated. The Final Five would be the single most complicated piece to this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamius23 View Post
    Sorry, what do you mean by that?
    The first post of this thread has a picture and a bit of a BSG related blurb that you can use to announce the game. Much better than what you have put in there now, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty99 View Post
    Dear God, no.

    That about sums it up.
    Sorry Tamius.
    "Don’t only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine."
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    EUROO7: No, this was Randy's black magic.
    Boris ze Spider: Lesson learned, always trust Randy's black magic.

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  16. #56
    Indefatigable Psychotic tamius23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randakar View Post
    The first post of this thread has a picture and a bit of a BSG related blurb that you can use to announce the game. Much better than what you have put in there now, at least.
    Fixed it.

  17. #57

  18. #58
    Only human Najs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randakar View Post
    The first post of this thread has a picture and a bit of a BSG related blurb that you can use to announce the game. Much better than what you have put in there now, at least.
    That's why you do announcements yourself. Gets them right the first time.
    Gone underground.

  19. #59
    Most Valuable Dogg snoopdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUROO7 View Post
    :

    *Euro, suddenly aware of his inability to frown, was thrown into deep depression*
    Are you IN?
    I don't hate tamius' idea as far as traits are concerned. I think a WW game where traits were simply thrown about randomly for the most part could actually be very interesting.
    What you know 'bout Green Eggs and Ham!?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopdogg View Post
    Are you IN?
    I don't hate tamius' idea as far as traits are concerned. I think a WW game where traits were simply thrown about randomly for the most part could actually be very interesting.
    I simply haven´t the time.
    And one day we will die and our ashes will fly from the aeroplane over the sea
    But for now we are young let us lay in the sun and count every beautiful thing we can see......

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