For the motherland manual

[EradiusLore]

hey i bought and downloaded off steam for the motherland and noticed unlike semper fi it didnt come with a manual, can anyone tell me if there is one and mybe how i can get it, because at the moment im not seeing much in the new features department to validate me spending £15 on this expansion.

[misterbean]

no manual, but lots of gamebreaking bugs

[Master_Caius]

Don't be so tragic! It is true that there's no manual, but only REAL bugs noticed until now are an excessive tendency of the AI to puppet everything it conquers and the fractured government modifier. Neutrality, like it or not, works exactly as it was designed.
And about the CTDs, I've been going in and out the Theathre screen thousands of time and never had a single one. Must be user-related.

[EradiusLore]

yeah i have noticed that the camera is a bit better and zooming on mouse pointer etc along with the theater view. all good stuff but i would rather have some way of knowing everything new in this version, is there anything on the site that gives me proper details as to whats actualy in this expansion because even the videos on it are a bit sketchy

[belit]

Lack of a manual is really amazing, given that PI has been working on this for months. The surrender bug, at least if it is as bad as some are reporting, is even worse though -- it seems to essentially break campaigns once nations start to surrender.

[timkoningskelp]

A manual would be nice, especially if gives more information about the new theaterscreen and the new partisansystem.

But please don't complain about "gamebreaking bugs". I have played FtM for hours now, and never noticed even one. This expansion adds a lot of nice possibilities, options and features to the game and it's definately playable. Or to say it in other words: this is -by far- the best game I've ever played and anyone complaining about "gamebreaking bugs" needs to go and actually play the game instead of posting about illusatory bugs here on the forum.

[Sulimo]

A manual would be nice, especially if gives more information about the new theaterscreen and the new partisansystem.

But please don't complain about "gamebreaking bugs". I have played FtM for hours now, and never noticed even one. This expansion adds a lot of nice possibilities, options and features to the game and it's definately playable. Or to say it in other words: this is -by far- the best game I've ever played and anyone complaining about "gamebreaking bugs" needs to go and actually play the game instead of posting about illusatory bugs here on the forum.

Yes, until you realize you pretty much always puppet whatever you conquer. That is hardly the way the game was intended to be.

And the fact that you can't declare war as a minor until 1956. That too.

Sure, it's playable as a major if you don't mind all that, but it could be so much better.

[misterbean]

Don't be so tragic! It is true that there's no manual, but only REAL bugs noticed until now are an excessive tendency of the AI to puppet everything it conquers and the fractured government modifier. Neutrality, like it or not, works exactly as it was designed.
And about the CTDs, I've been going in and out the Theathre screen thousands of time and never had a single one. Must be user-related.

tragic? I beg to differ. diplomacy is out. spycraft is out. conquest is out. building reserve divisions is out.
oh, well. at least production and research are up to specs. and, in all honesty, I freely admit that the AI has vastly improved in most areas. so, as soon as those not-so-tragic bugs have been cleared up, I'll have the best HOI ever.

sorry if that came out too strong. nothing personal. just disappointed, that's all.

[timkoningskelp]

Yes, until you realize you pretty much always puppet whatever you conquer. That is hardly the way the game was intended to be.

Well, perhaps I've just been lucky, but playing Germany I've conquered Poland, Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and France twice since FtM came out, and I've never puppeted anyone if I didn't want to.

And the fact that you can't declare war as a minor until 1956. That too.

Imho the game is primarily designed to be played as a major, and there seems to be no problems with their neutrality. And minors mostly allign themselves to a faction, and irl didn't go to war by themselves. But ofcourse you're right this should be possible. Hardly "gamebreaking" though.

Sure, it's playable as a major if you don't mind all that, but it could be so much better.

You're absolutly right: the game could be very much better. But since we at the moment have to do with what we have there's no point in wining about "gamebreaking bugs" or an "unplayable game". That's just not true. Why do people not enjoy the great game we have at the moment, be it with a few minor problems, but instead keep posting about trivial problems most people don't even notice? The only answer to this question I can think of must be that the people who actually enjoy the game play it, and the people who want to concentrate on it's drawbacks post on this forum.

But then again, I'm not saying there are no problems or bugs. I'm just saying that even with this HOI3 and it's expansions is a very, very good game.

[misterbean]

oh, about the tragic stuff. Both UK and USA start out with 3-year draft and full war economy, making them about twice as powerful as they should be in 1936. still no reason to feel deep disappointment?

[Syphus]

oh, about the tragic stuff. Both UK and USA start out with 3-year draft and full war economy, making them about twice as powerful as they should be in 1936. still no reason to feel deep disappointment?

Nope, as I have no problem playing a game that is a bit more ahistorical for a little while. Or, I've just been playing in the 40 and 41 scenarios a bunch. Seems to be a lot more enjoyable than freaking out on the internet.

[Sulimo]

Well, perhaps I've just been lucky, but playing Germany I've conquered Poland, Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and France twice since FtM came out, and I've never puppeted anyone if I didn't want to.

Did you play with 3.03 yet? Believe it's a new 'feature'.

Imho the game is primarily designed to be played as a major, and there seems to be no problems with their neutrality. And minors mostly allign themselves to a faction, and irl didn't go to war by themselves. But ofcourse you're right this should be possible. Hardly "gamebreaking" though.

I like to play as Nationalist China, and because the entire neutrality system is out of whack, that's pretty much an impossibility. Never mind the fact that Guanxi never answers your call to arms, causing you to pretty much lose 30% of the forces you were able to throw at Japan in Vanilla/SF.

While we're on the subject, I'd like to refer you to the following 2 wikipedia pages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...0%E2%80%931944
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...5%E2%80%931989
There are plenty of 'minor' countries that fought wars around the time of WW2. Never mind the fact that it's pretty much an alternate history simulator, so if you'd like to declare war on the USA as Albania you should be able to do so. And yes, you'd have to live with American troops in your capital within a fortnight, because you never should be able to win a war like that. Does that mean you simply shouldn't allow it? I think not.

You're absolutly right: the game could be very much better. But since we at the moment have to do with what we have there's no point in wining about "gamebreaking bugs" or an "unplayable game". That's just not true. Why do people not enjoy the great game we have at the moment, be it with a few minor problems, but instead keep posting about trivial problems most people don't even notice? The only answer to this question I can think of must be that the people who actually enjoy the game play it, and the people who want to concentrate on it's drawbacks post on this forum.

Bolded for Emphasis. Because they notice it, and they'd like the developers to notice it as well. They notice things they were able to do in Vanilla/SF and can't do anymore. They're impeded in their ability to play the game the way they'd like to, the way they have done since release, even. I thoroughly enjoy HoI3, and agree that some of the complaints are minor nitpicks at best, but as it stands there are problems in FTM that hinder the enjoyability of the game for a large number of people.

But then again, I'm not saying there are no problems or bugs. I'm just saying that even with this HOI3 and it's expansions is a very, very good game.

Agreed. I've loved Paradox games ever since I've discovered them, and fully trust in their ability to restore some features to their former glory. And if they say it's WAD, then I fully trust in the ability of the modders to put their own spin on mechanics.

Should that mean noone should complain about anything? No, imo. Even the most caustic complaints are a form of feedback.

[HeroNico]

no manual, but lots of gamebreaking bugs

i couldn't agree more.

[HeroNico]

[QUOTE=

Imho the game is primarily designed to be played as a major, and there seems to be no problems with their neutrality. And minors mostly allign themselves to a faction, and irl didn't go to war by themselves. But ofcourse you're right this should be possible. Hardly "gamebreaking" though.

.[/QUOTE]

extremely gamebreaking! i for instance play minors only, and i bet i'm not the only one.

[Syphus]

Even the most caustic complaints are a form of feedback.

Except are entirely unconstructive and fairly useless.

[Sulimo]

Did I say it was decent feedback? I said it was a form of feedback. Huge difference. If 500 monkeys fling poop at your face for one reason or another, then the monkeys must have something they're upset about. There's the occasional monkey who can write a decent piece of feedback to explain what the other monkeys are thinking, and the poop-flinging ones support him by... well, acting like monkeys, basically.

[timkoningskelp]

extremely gamebreaking! i for instance play minors only, and i bet i'm not the only one.

That's why I said it should be fixed. But the game is designed to be played as a major, not a minor. WW2 was after all not about Albania conquering all of Europe, but about Germany, Japan and to a lesser extent Italy trying to do that.

Did I say it was decent feedback? I said it was a form of feedback. Huge difference. If 500 monkeys fling poop at your face for one reason or another, then the monkeys must have something they're upset about. There's the occasional monkey who can write a decent piece of feedback to explain what the other monkeys are thinking, and the poop-flinging ones support him by... well, acting like monkeys, basically.

I wouldn't want to compare the people who complain with monkey's, but since you've done it I think I might admit to sharing your sentiment to some degree. People repeating statements made by other people seems to be far to common, not only on this forum. As far as I know there is a special place on this forum especially designed to post bugs: the so-called HOI3 Bugreports section: link. Too bad most of the complaining isn't done there, but instead here where these complaints don't belong.

[Sulimo]

Bug reports are for 'true' bugs so to say, and as far as I can tell Neutrality is WAD according to paradox. Main problem being that they're all skiing for the weekend up north in Sweden.

Anyway, I see no reason to carry on our discussion, seeing you think the game mostly revolves around majors, and I disagree with the sentiment. The AI should be on rails, so to speak, and the player should fly a plane. Anyway, we're getting offtopic.

So, to go back on topic: I too would like to see a FTM manual in the next 2 weeks or so, would be nice to see what's WAD and what's FUBAR.

PS: If you can throw in a metaphor with monkies, you should do so. The Reductio ad Simius is an under appreciated figure of speech.

[leoric]

the game is designed to be played as a major, not a minor. WW2 was after all not about Albania conquering all of Europe, but about Germany, Japan and to a lesser extent Italy trying to do that.

As Sulimo already said, "There are plenty of 'minor' countries that fought wars around the time of WW2." And those wars were not the part of WW2. Surprisingly, HoI series before this new WAD-Neutrality simulated those wars quite well. Consequently, you were able to play as minor in a rather realistic way. Now, though you still could play as a minor, but only in unrealistic way. The problem is - lots of people love to play as minors, and they are spending their money on addon that cripples them.
And your attitude doesn't help, either:

But please don't complain about "gamebreaking bugs". I have played FtM for hours now, and never noticed even one.

The existence of a bug doesn't require your personal notice. So it's like "begone with your troubles because I suffer none!", be it a bug or a design flaw. Not very clever.

[misterbean]

I seem to have started a bushfire by accident here. did not mean to start a flame war, or to derail the thread. the the OP, my ampologies for all this. those of you who have come across my posts in the past know I'm no troll. or flamer. I just felt a burning need to vent a little. it will stop now.
please refrain from any further comments on my previous posts (by which I still stand,but that is neither here nor now).
Back on topic: a manual.
in order to sound more constructive than the past two days or so, might this thread be a suitable venue for people to pool their findings? maybe an expert gamer with some real writing talent will pick up on it and write us a manual.
what do you think?

I'll start with the laws bug. one idea I've tested, involves starting a game as the UK, cheating to give them 1000 gold extra (alt gr+0, type "money", alt gr+0 to close again) and then changing their laws to what I think they should have. resign, load as the USA, do the same. AT NO TIME LET TIME PASS!
It would seem those are the only two majors affected. then load that save as the nation you want to play, and sito presto, problem solved. it would be helpful until we get a patch to save it as, for instance, "good laws set-up" or something.