Beifaren, Nafaren

[PanzerWilly]

I think it was the Harry Turtledove alt-history books that had "barrels" and not tanks. I think I read in a DD this is where the developers got the term.

[safferli]

I think it was the Harry Turtledove alt-history books that had "barrels" and not tanks. I think I read in a DD this is where the developers got the term.

This I also remember.

[Garak]

Wrong. In WWI, the British called armored fighting vehicles "tanks" (and the factory workers welding the hulls together were told they were, in fact, petrol tanks), in order to confuse the German intelligence, and the name kind of stuck afterwards. The "barrel" name comes from some alternate history American Civil War novel.

The book you're most likely thinking of is Harry Turtledove's Great War series, which is actually about WWI, though set in an alternate timeline where the ACW ended differently. However, I believe the term "barrel", which he uses, is based on actual British term, and he simply portrays it as becoming the common word for armor, instead of "tank".

[JimboOmega]

One of the previous posters said something that finally makes this clear to me - it is indeed north vs. south.

Those with a very rudimentary knowledge of China and/or chinese characters will recall "Beijing" means "Northern Capital" while "Nanjing" means "Southern Capital". (Just like Tokyo means eastern capital...)

It would perhaps be easier if this was translated to "Northern Han" and "Southern Han".

BTW, as both are accepted, what does it even matter? (Maybe for Guangxi clique or etc, they don't accept both...?)

[Seek75]

There should be only one majority ethnic group in
China which is Han group.

Besides all of the other posts saying that they're separated based on culture, not on ethnicity, to pile all of those people into a single generic "Han" culture would be to essentially have one culture that would contain, on average, around one million people per province for several of the provinces that contain Han Chinese people. Even if it was based on ethnicity and not culture, it would likely be the same as it is now, for balance purposes.

[monsterfurby]

I think the cultural divide makes sense. While the north and south have grown a bit closer after the civil war, the Chang jiang has always been the dividing line between the two chinas. The north, not very fertile and often attacked by barbarians but the political center, and the south, rich, fertile and disenfranchised. It didn't start with it, but it's been most clearly defined since the [southern] Song.
During the game's period, I would say that the southerners still are much more detached from Manchu rule than the northerners, and there are far greater economic, political and cultural differences that go way past the southerners hating the northern way of attaching an "er" to every word.

[Beamed]

Erm. That's not true. All Cantonese people are southerners, but not all southerners are Cantonese people. There are also the Teochew, the Fuchew, the Hakka, the Min and many others. Cantonese are just one of the subset of southerners.

And the largest.

[Wolfsgeist]

I figured that it was some sort of language variation but I didn't know what. Speaking of language variations, although it's unrelated to the Chinese, when the devs developed this game did they confuse the English words "tank" and "barrel" so that we build armor (tanks, chars, panzerkampfwagen, etc.) in a barrel factory instead of a tank factory? If so and it was not an intended pun, should be a simple thing to fix. Thanks for the replies.

In the german version, those factories are named "Geschützrohr-Fabriken" which means gun-barrel factories. That might be an explaination too.

[Naselus]

China is very complicated. Heck, paradox can make an entire game based just on China. (I would imagine it would sell very well in Mainland China, anything allowing the people to re-write the history of a century of humiliation).

Really? I imagine it would be banned like all the other historical games which include China...

[joelzhl]

Really? I imagine it would be banned like all the other historical games which include China...

I think they only banned Victoria and HOI because they put Tibet as an independent country.

[Veteranewbie]

"Vanilla" Chinese people originate from the upper-mid Yellow River region and moves on to conquer/colonize the whole of China Proper. Chinese first conquered the area beyond the Yangtze River when it unified in around 200 BC, but it took them ages before the South was finally sinicized.
Southern Chinese aka Nanfangren are a mixture of Vanilla Chinese people and natives living around the Yangtze River and beyond. These natives are relatives of Vietnamese and Taiwan Aboriginals, whereas the North tends to receive influences from the Steppe aka Beifangren. btw a lot of the Southern Chinese languages and the Official Mandarin language are NOT mutually intelligible, but the written forms are the same, though.
Historically speaking, I think Southern Chinese aka Nanfangren should be considered an accepted culture in Victoria II. Although Southern Chinese did eventually cause the downfall of the Qing Empire and have this tendency to oppose the Northern Government, a lot of them did rise to prominence during the Heavenly Kingdom rebellion, and accepted into the Central Government and taking up importance positions.

I think they only banned Victoria and HOI because they put Tibet as an independent country.

I find it a little bit funny that be it EU, Vic or HOI, Tibet always appears as a fully independent nation untouched by foreign political influence (and in gameplay as well). Are they using it as a beta test ground for the game?

[AlbTroll]

Wrong. In WWI, the British called armored fighting vehicles "tanks" (and the factory workers welding the hulls together were told they were, in fact, petrol tanks), in order to confuse the German intelligence, and the name kind of stuck afterwards. The "barrel" name comes from some alternate history American Civil War novel.

Barrels are the term used by Harry Turtledove in his Great War series This is based on a stand alone book he wrote called How Few Remain It is an alternate history where the South "wins" the Civil War and fights a second war with the USA in the 1880s over its purchase of Mexico's two most northern states (giving the south a pacific coast and the possibility of transcontinental railroads).

The Great War Series has the USA allied with Germany, KUK, and I believe the Ottomans. The CSA is allied with Great Britain, France, Russia, and Japan. (Japan is slightly more powerful because of a lack of competition from a unified imperial USA).

The USA develops "Tanks" first in the Great War Series not Great Britain. The fictional USA tells their workers they are producing vehicles to transport water to the trenches (water barrels). This need to obfuscate the true purpose of the machines is Harry Turtledove's illusion to how "Tanks" got their current name.

As a side note; the Great War Series is really good I am a big fan. If you enjoy Victoria 2 you probably would find his alternate histories interesting.

[safferli]

"Barrels" are indeed a shout-out to the Turteldove series.

And that was some holy necro-posting batman! Thread closed, please don't necro.