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Usually the way they are handled are you tally up all the points you've gotten over the game and present that as a decimal.
Let's say I win a game, draw as a small country in a group of 4, and draw as a large country in a group of 5.
That's 1 + 1/4 + 3/10 = 1.55. I would say I have 1.55 points. Or .517 points per game.
Or for weird numbers, I win a game, draw as the large in a group of 4, and draw as a one province minor in a game that somehow includes all 7 players still. So I've got weird numbers.
1 + 3/8 + 1/7 = ~1.52. Or ~.506 points per game.
Multiplying by ten isn't going to stop weird repeating decimals.
Perhaps instead of getting 1/n points for a draw, you get i/j, where i is your supply centres and j is the total supply centres in the drawing alliance? This rewards stronger powers in the alliance, and reduces the reward for OPMs. Although a fraction of a point is still better than nothing, you could probably adjust that a bit if it's too little for smaller powers and too much for bigger ones - I wouldn't want to see someone get more than half a point for a draw (highest from 1/n), or less than some number (1/7, being the theoretical lowest from 1/n, perhaps?).
Edit: i/j is probably fine on its own. The situations where one country gets too big/too small a fraction of the points aren't likely to lead to draws, anyway.
Edit: i/j is probably fine on its own. The situations where one country gets too big/too small a fraction of the points aren't likely to lead to draws, anyway.
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I didnt know that to play diplomacy you have to have at least an A* in mathematics. Im just going to pretend i understand your dicussion.
Yeh i agree if we include j=sc+n(e=mc2) then we should get a fair balance of wins ratios... Though when i win it will read something like this.
Diplomacy - wins (1) losses (0)
Yeh i agree if we include j=sc+n(e=mc2) then we should get a fair balance of wins ratios... Though when i win it will read something like this.
Diplomacy - wins (1) losses (0)
Win/loss is easy. It's the draws that mess it up, because you don't know how many countries will be in it or what their relative strengths will be. If you want a one number score for your entire Diplomacy history, you have to find some way of comparing a draw to a win.
joeb gave the simplest way, dividing the score you get for winning equally between the members of the alliance. But he wanted to reward being a major member of the alliance, perhaps by increasing the score of the biggest country by 50%.
This has its own problems. What if there are multiple countries the same size? What if there are two major countries and a couple of OPMs, and one major country has only one more SC than the other major one? So I proposed that, rather than dividing the point equally, you divide it according to the size of the allied powers.
joeb gave the simplest way, dividing the score you get for winning equally between the members of the alliance. But he wanted to reward being a major member of the alliance, perhaps by increasing the score of the biggest country by 50%.
This has its own problems. What if there are multiple countries the same size? What if there are two major countries and a couple of OPMs, and one major country has only one more SC than the other major one? So I proposed that, rather than dividing the point equally, you divide it according to the size of the allied powers.
I kind of like the solution of dividing the point completely proportionally based on supply centers, though 1/34th of a point is such a small ammount I wonder if people in that position would even care anymore by that point (they should still be into the game, but that doesn't mean they would).
That's why I thought about putting hard caps at each end, possibly 1/2 and 1/7 of a point. I'm not sure whether that kind of situation is common enough to worry about, though. I've never even seen a game played before.
There is a natural cap at 1/2. If you have 17/34ths then you have 1/2, and any more means victory and the whole point.
I think I'll stick to making it purely proportional in the event of a draw. It seems the most fair way to award skill while still giving everyone something for participating in the draw. That's only in the case of a draw of course, in the case of one country winning outright (with 18 or more centers) then everyone else gets 0.
From Wikipedia:
There are many variants; my favorite being the Key Lepanto which looks like an Italian attack on Austria-Hungary
Interesting option. What will happen if Italy convoys their army in Apulia to Greece. Also what will good do for Italy if Turkey is destroyed? Isn't Italy will be in difficult position against Austria?
So typically Greece is either occupied or bordered by Austrians in Serbia and Turks in Bulgaria. Thus it cannot be occupied by a simple unsupported convoy.
As for why undermining Turkey is useful for Italy...
Italy has a natural alliance with Russia due to position...Russia is likely to continue pounding Austria even as its junior partner in the Juggernaut is attacked. Likewise, Italy can very easily defend itself from Austrian attack indefinitely with a supported army in Venice and control of the seas.
Realistically, after taking out Turkey, Italy would then focus on taking Greece, Trieste, Bulgaria, and Serbia...while Russia takes Rumania, Budapest and Vienna.
Then Italy will have more than enough units to take the long-road West into France, while Russia tangles with Germany and England in Scandinavia and the Polish cooridor.
Or it could stick with A-H and try to attack France or Germany which are usually embroiled in a conflict. Or go to Sev via BLA/Arm. Many options are open here. Basically, the main benefit of taking out Turkey early is because it means you own the Mediterranean. Austria is a land power, France may get to build a fleet in Mar since you are distracted, but that is just a thorn in your back. UK will take much longer to get into the Med than you finishing Turkey with a successful Lepanto.
And owning the Med means you can hit anywhere along it, while focusing your armies on zones of interest rather than coastal defense.
Of course, you can argue that even without taking out Turkey, ION can be easily held against Turkey for a long time, but that requires fleets that could be elsewhere, and Austria may decide to support Turkey into ION if they have a fleet around.
Plus, there are several interesting anti-French openings (like the one I suggested to Italy
). Italy has the broadest choice of options, to make up for their fragile position.
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Plus, there are several interesting anti-French openings (like the one I suggested to Italy
Italy's opening this game was blatantly anti-French. There is no other explanation for an opening to the Tyrhennian Sea given the tremendous strategic advantage of the Ionian Sea.
However, there was literally nothing the French could do about it since they were fighting England and Germany who were there in 1901 whereas Italy likely wouldn't have gotten sufficient fleets into the Western Mediterranean until end of 1902.
I prefer the Venice - Tyrolia opening for Italy, as it offers lots of nice options and negotiating leverage...which is why if I'm playing Germany I often try to arrange a bounce with Austria in Tyrolia.
Eh, I wasn't into Bur in 1901, although I did get Belgium with French consent (which was obtained on the idea that UK should be kept out of Belgium). While I appreciate the Iberian gambit, it was exposed to an attack into Brest. England had to be kept somehow out of the Channel in the Spring, persuaded into a Churchill or something, and prodded into Belgium.
I had no hand on the Brest attack, IIRC. I expected France to get F MAt to block Brest, denying the build there, while UK would go for Belgium. I would have played it like that, at least. And I took the opportunity to secure Burgundy, as it gave me safety, and a say in your home SC's in case of France going down, as I expected. You held on, and thus I started thinking about a Sea Lion to solve the problem. The Burgundy army also allowed me to stay on the good graces of Italy and UK, which I needed in order to be able to pull the Sea Lion off. They would be suspicious had I stopped in Belgium.
The Tyrolia opening is a pain too, but it can backfire on Italy should Austria set up a bounce in Ven. Standard Hedgehog opening for Austria (F Tri - Ven) protects against Rom-Ven and while Italy might get Munich, they will be highly exposed both in Munich and Venice. Germany is unlikely to set up a bounce in 1901 if they want to have a say in Belgium.
Negotiating leverage... it's a double edged sword. It can happen that Austria makes a deal with Germany to bust Italy early, due to neither side being able to trust them. And if it implodes, Italy will be in a very weak position. It's a high-gain, high-loss opening.
I wasn't in France in 1901.
That might work...but I think it's more likely that Italy is able to hold them off in time for Russia/Turkey and England/France to become a problem. Holding Venice is pretty easy if you're just up against Austria/Germany.
Also, I've very rarely seen a Standard Hedgehog. I almost always see:
A Vienna - Galicia
A Budapest - Serbia
F Trieste - Albania
Since Greece is the key territory for Austro-Turkish balance of power.
That might work...but I think it's more likely that Italy is able to hold them off in time for Russia/Turkey and England/France to become a problem. Holding Venice is pretty easy if you're just up against Austria/Germany.
Also, I've very rarely seen a Standard Hedgehog. I almost always see:
A Vienna - Galicia
A Budapest - Serbia
F Trieste - Albania
Since Greece is the key territory for Austro-Turkish balance of power.
Will there be another diplomacy, coz Im interested? Ive played it before on the computer. Not the paradox version. An older one.