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Thread: Wars in America: A 'how-to' AAR

  1. #501
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    It's actually over... I picked a bad time to give the forums a rest - I missed out on the development of the last climactic turns. Oh well, the benefit is that it was like yanking off the bandaid at once: it smarts, but it's over quickly.

    The French were comprehensively bested. And the Spanish never really did anything. How fitting.

    Good show and thank you both for a very interesting and enlightening read. One of these days, I'm actually going to play an AGEOD game, mark my words...
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  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    With the fall of Nouvelle – Orléans (now rechristened as “New Glasgow”), I know control all my objectives
    A truly horrible fate for Nouvelle Orleans!

    A pity this has now come to an end, it has proven a cracking read, really engrossing stuff. I enjoyed the banter between both players nearly as much as the gameplay! It was good to that things remained relatively in the balance until late on. Thus thanks for a very good and enjoyable game and AAR.
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  3. #503
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morningSIDEr View Post
    A truly horrible fate for Nouvelle Orleans!

    A pity this has now come to an end, it has proven a cracking read, really engrossing stuff. I enjoyed the banter between both players nearly as much as the gameplay! It was good to that things remained relatively in the balance until late on. Thus thanks for a very good and enjoyable game and AAR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    It's actually over... I picked a bad time to give the forums a rest - I missed out on the development of the last climactic turns. Oh well, the benefit is that it was like yanking off the bandaid at once: it smarts, but it's over quickly.

    The French were comprehensively bested. And the Spanish never really did anything. How fitting.

    Good show and thank you both for a very interesting and enlightening read. One of these days, I'm actually going to play an AGEOD game, mark my words...
    Thank you for your interesting comments during the AAR. I did not answer to all of them, but really I am not sure without both of you , and a couple other people, commenting and showing interest, I would have carried on until the end with the same level of details.
    Learning from Prussia - a Rise of Prussia AAR for beginners - or how a forced march in winter saved Prussia from anniliation.
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  4. #504
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    So, a rematch aar in preparation?
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  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Hoth View Post
    So, a rematch aar in preparation?
    CoT today, gone tomorrow
    A saying. Or so they say
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  6. #506
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Rematch, yes, at some point. But not AAR
    Learning from Prussia - a Rise of Prussia AAR for beginners - or how a forced march in winter saved Prussia from anniliation.
    A Tale of French and War Crimes : A double Multiplayer AAR of Wars in America with Loki100. Includes violence against English and Indians - not suited for children.
    The War of 1812 - or how I burned down Washington

  7. #507
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    Thank you both for the fascinating and helpful AAR!

  8. #508
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    The new WiA 1.09 patch is up. Among the new things :

    - French militia upgrade to Light Infantry when trained (instead of regular)
    - Pillager units (like Indians : always loot the provinces they are in) and units which cannot capture cities (like Couriers, Indians, ...) are now displayed as such.
    - Correction of the horrible "ammo consumption bug". Before, there was no ammo consumption at all. Now, campaign for too long and you will be out of ammo (which are much harder to get than regular supplies)
    - Weather more realistic
    - No more bug with the battle report (it happened in a few instances)

    And TWO NEW SCENARIOS (thanks to a Modder : Hobbes - they are now official)

    1689 King William's War
    1763 Pontiac's War

    You can download the patch from here :

    http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=23110
    Learning from Prussia - a Rise of Prussia AAR for beginners - or how a forced march in winter saved Prussia from anniliation.
    A Tale of French and War Crimes : A double Multiplayer AAR of Wars in America with Loki100. Includes violence against English and Indians - not suited for children.
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  9. #509
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    In fact, the light infantry is my suggestion
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  10. #510
    Lt. General ANO1453's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    Rematch, yes, at some point. But not AAR
    : peek :
    CoT today, gone tomorrow
    A saying. Or so they say
    ---------
    EU3 AAR: Two lions and a yellow background (MPM)

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal View Post
    The new WiA 1.09 patch is up. Among the new things :

    - French militia upgrade to Light Infantry when trained (instead of regular)
    - Pillager units (like Indians : always loot the provinces they are in) and units which cannot capture cities (like Couriers, Indians, ...) are now displayed as such.
    - Correction of the horrible "ammo consumption bug". Before, there was no ammo consumption at all. Now, campaign for too long and you will be out of ammo (which are much harder to get than regular supplies)
    - Weather more realistic
    - No more bug with the battle report (it happened in a few instances)

    And TWO NEW SCENARIOS (thanks to a Modder : Hobbes - they are now official)

    1689 King William's War
    1763 Pontiac's War

    You can download the patch from here :

    http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=23110
    OMG yes. King William's War is finally out!

  12. #512
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Patch for the patch is out. I had a full game without problem, but it looks like there was a problem for some people.
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  13. #513
    Hey Narhwal,

    Finally read through this, and though I play more AACW than WiA, I still think I learnt immense amounts from this. Thankyou and loki100 both!!

    One small thing: when you said that forces marching lose MORE cohesion when set at defensive, this stumped me.

    http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/WIA_FAQ#Combat contains the sentence " In general, move on defensive as it costs you less cohesion than on offensive" which claims the exact opposite (and to my mind more logical) scenario.

    I'm just curious if you've tested it one way or the other? I'll have to give it a try myself sometime.

  14. #514
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Thank you for the input. I will change this... at some point. (I made promise, but fail, so now I am prudent).
    Last edited by Narwhal; 22-12-2011 at 23:50.
    Learning from Prussia - a Rise of Prussia AAR for beginners - or how a forced march in winter saved Prussia from anniliation.
    A Tale of French and War Crimes : A double Multiplayer AAR of Wars in America with Loki100. Includes violence against English and Indians - not suited for children.
    The War of 1812 - or how I burned down Washington

  15. #515
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    This was really fun to read, and it made me really want to try WiA. Unfortunately, I bought WiA from GG during their Christmas sale.... Sure enough, I have Pdox's newsletter, and, sure enough, it still works. Now I have two copies, lol. At least it was only like 5 bucks with the crazy sale they had. I spent around 60 bucks at GG for Christmas.. for about 10 games.

    In any case, this was fun, and thanks for doing it. I'd also like to give a special shout-out to the first few years of the war. For those who are unaware.. the fight for Duquesne takes place in Western Pennsylvania. Ft. Duquesne => Ft. Pitt => Pittsburgh.

  16. #516
    Lt. General Narwhal's Avatar
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    Bonus Beginner's Corner - Unit statistics

    You were waiting for this I am sure. I wanted to do it for the War of 1812, but finally it is going to be there so all the Beginner's Corner are regrouped.



    I will just cover the statistics on the left, which are relevant for combat.

    Offensive Fire (OF) : For each point of this statistic (which goes to 0 and 10) the unit has 4% of chance of hitting the opponent each time it fire. This value is used for the unit that attacks.

    Defensive Fire (DF): For each point of this statistic (which goes to 0 and 10) the unit has 4% of chance of hitting the opponent each time it fire. This value is used for the unit that defends

    Initiative : Determines who fires first. The one who fires first can hit and destroy an opponent before he fires back.

    Range : Maximum range at which the unit can fire. Remember that in many case, the range is limited to a lower number by the weather or by the battlefield (forest for instance).

    ROF : How many times the unit can fire in an hour of combat.

    Remember that a battle is divided in (eight) hours, and each hour is divided in decreasing "phases", or "ranges". For instance, no one fires at range / phase 10 to 5, then range 4 the guns fires as many times as it has ROF (i.e. : once), then range 3 the gun fires once more, and so do everyone with range 3, and so on, until hand-to-hand combat.
    Hencefort, if your unit has short range and good hand-to-hand, try to attack in forest.

    Protection : Each point gives 4% less chance to be hit. In general, it is 0 or 1 (except ships), but in some terrain it gets improved for the defender. Each level of entrenchment ALSO adds one.

    Discipline (or “Troop Quality”) : Gives the chance that the unit retreat when hit, and also commands a few other important items (like the chance that the unit form a square in case of cavalry charge). Actually important to win the battle, but not so much to kill opponents. Also, before an assault, both units must do a “Discipline” check. If both fail, no assault takes place.


    Assault (X/X) : For each point of this statistic (which goes to 0 and 10) the unit has 4% of chance of hitting the opponent in close combat (i.e. when range is 0). The first value is used for the unit that attacks, the second for defense.

    Range damage (X/X) : How much hit/cohesion points the unit inflicts upon hitting the opponent in range combat. The first number is hitpoint (in general 1), the second cohesion loss.

    Assault damage (X/X) : How much hit/cohesion points the unit inflicts upon hitting the opponent in assault. The first number is hitpoint (in general 1), the second cohesion loss.

    Cohesion : Well, current and max cohesion of the unit. What is important is the ratio : a unit with 100% cohesion will fight like it should, I UNDERSTAND that a unit with say 75% cohesion will have a 75% modifier to its chance to hit and maybe damage dealt in assault.

    Leaders : Offensive increases by 5% the total chance to hit to units in attack per point of offensive, but you have to substract 5% per point of defensive of the unit in defense. The opposite is true (the unit in defense has 5% more chance to unit per point to hit the opponent, minus 5% per point of the leader in attack.
    You can never have a malus to shoot due to your leader weakness compared to the other leader.
    Also, if command is unsufficiant in the stack, you need to add the malus (up to 35%) at that point, AND you lose 1 in ROF (to a minimum of 1).

    So overall, in a normal combat, the chance to hit per shoot is, for a unit on attack is :
    [Unit AF (1+(Leader Offensive – Enemy Leader Offensive)*5%) – Unit Protection] * 4%

    Now for some examples

    First, let me introduce a few friends of mine.



    John is a provincial. The only people he hates more than the French are the English. He will put all his heart in defending his native Virginia, and maybe some effort to defend the rest of the colonies. Maybe. He will also want to go home for winter, because he has some fields to tend.



    Jenkins is a Scot. He hates the English. He really hates them. Also, he wins war for them. He is no friend of Wilson, despite their common ground on the English, except when fighting the French, whom are his friends. Yes, Jenkins is a person of many paradoxes, for he is a Scot.

    Now, let’s suppose that John and Jenkins are on the opposite side of a battlefield. Just the two of them. What would happen ?
    The sun is shining, the battlefield happens to be John’s property, so no other modification. And Jenkins is attacking Scott.

    Both John and Jenkins have a range of 3. With his 9 in initiative, Jenkins the Scot fires first at range 3, and has a chance of 9 (OF) *4% = 36% to hit poor John. Well, suppose he misses.
    John shoot back : 6 (DF) * 4 = 24% chance to hit assertive Jenkins. It fails.
    Now, both characters are at range 2. They fire once more, with the same chances to hit. John is hit, and lose 1 strength point and 5 cohesion.
    At range 1, both John and Jenkins have “exhausted” their rate of fire, so no one shoots. It is time for assault. Both do some sort of test against discipline here. Assault is very much a two-way thing, so if either succeeds, it is assault phase, else back to Hour 2 – Range 3. If one side one succeeds the assault check, he will get a significant damage bonus I cannot number, too.The attacks are simultaneous (no initiative) and with his 11 * 4 = 44% of chance of hitting John, Jenkins takes away one more hit and 7 cohesion from John. John misses his assault round. At the end of the assault, the attacker always lose 2 cohesion, and the defender 1.
    John has lost 5 + 7 + 1 = 13 cohesion out of 42. With its low discipline, and its even lower effective discipline (13/42 * 5 = 3,4), John decides survival is the best part of valor, and flees the battlefield before the second round.

    Now, let’s introduce some complications. John was defeated by Jenkins because he forget to use what he learnt against Louis, back then during the FIW.
    Back then, John had waited the French fortified in some wild place [wilderness], so he had quite a few bonus. Here is (an extract of) the “modifier table” for Wilderness.



    Also, some new characters :



    Louis is French. He hates the English, bien entendu. Also, he finds snails yummy, and believes taste is a reason good enough to torture ducks and geese. Especially geese.
    He is also quite elite.



    François is a Québecois. He never saw France, but was told a lot at school (a Catholic one) about his ancestors the Gaulois. When he grew older, on the advice of his catholic priest, he became a Courrier, which means he runs a lot between Montréal and Indian villages. He has 5 brothers and 4 sisters, whom he meets frequently at the church. He does not hate the English in particular, but he hates heretics, and English happens to be heretic. Also, he is irregular infantry.

    The weather was rainy. While both opponents have a range of 3, the rainy (=”mud”) modifier has a RangeMod of -1, so the first shots were exchanged at range 2 (no impact for the little feud between Louis and John, but it would have if someone had a ROF of 3 - like François).

    Louis shoots first : 9 DF * 4% = 44%, but Louis must apply the ATKFire0 modifier of 75%, so overall Louis has only 33% of chance to hit. But that’s neglecting that John got the protection offered by the terrain, and his fortified bonus, so 2 in protection. Louis chances are down to 25%
    To this 36%, Louis must apply the ATKFire0 modifier of 75%, so overall Louis has only 27% of chance to hit.
    When John shoots, he has 24%*85% = 20% + 4% due to Louis negative protection. That’s 24% percent – not a significant difference with Louis.
    On assault, both had a discipline of -1, though. (TQ2 modifier), so even then, John only survived that era because he had back up.

    Note : I am not sure whether :
    - The terrain malus applies AFTER or BEFORE the protection modifier.
    - I am not sure whether one can have negative protection.

    As Louis saw the combat was difficult, he called François the Quebecois. As you can see, François on the attack use the “irregular” modifiers.
    François is not at his best : his range and rate of fire advantage cannot be used at his fullest (2 rounds to fire only), but for the rest, it is a real pleasure to fight in wilderness.
    Chance to hit on attack : 6 * 4% = 24% * 120% for terrain is 29%. Down to 21% after modification by John’s protection.
    On the other hand, François got no less than 4 in protection (2 base + 2 terrain), so John has only 8% of chance of hitting him. The issue will probably be settled in the assault phase, in which with his 7 (6 base + 1 terrain) discipline versus 4 (5 base – 1 terrain), and 9 vs 7 assault and 4 vs 2 protection, François will most probably prevail.

    John did not like those numbers, so retreated to a fort. Here is the effect table of a “fort terrain”.



    Note that "city terrain" is comparable, but not equal.


    As John was waiting them, the French wondered who to send (weather is clear) :
    Louis would have 2 shoots with a chance to hit of =9*0,04 * 80% = 28,8%
    François would have 3 shoots with a chance to hit of 6 * 0,04*50% = 12,0%
    Add to this the 2 in protection that the militia has in the fort, and you are sure that Louis will lead the assault. John has 6 * 0,04% * 105% = 25,2% of chance to hit Louis. More than Louis has chances to hit John, after deduction of the protection.

    Last case for today, the landing. Here is the table :



    I actually don’t know whether (but don’t think) terrain modifiers and crossing/landing are cumulative, so let’s suppose it is not. Also, let’s suppose it is snowing.

    It was back when Jerkins and John were friends, and Louis wants to land where Jerkins is entrenched.
    Louis chances to shoot : 9*0,04*30% = 10,8 %. Happily enough, no additional protection for Jerkins.
    Jerkins fires back and has 39,6% of chance to hit. That’s before the attacker Protection malus of -2…
    Guess who wins ?

    My advice : don't land on enemy force. If you do, don't use any guns, but bring as much irregulars as you can.


    This is the end of this Beginner's Corner. I hope it helps. There are many items I am not too confident about (for instance : assault, which I mostly avoided), and some I have no idea how it works (typically, the order of appliance of modifiers, the impact of cohesion and hits, the possibility of negative protection, ...), but this is a good base I believe to know who should win a skirmish.
    Last edited by Narwhal; 25-03-2012 at 16:28.
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  17. #517
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    that is rather informative, ok some of the national stereotypes are wrong (you miss out that the first duty of any Scot is to find another Scot to disagree with), but the whole gives a brilliant feel for how the AGEOD combat system works and that this mechanism is essentially the same in all the games (which in turn explains the horrendous losses you can run up in Revolution under Siege or Pride of Nations)
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  18. #518
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    Loki/Narwal--Given your increased experience, what would you suggest for a French player in this scenario? Is an aggressive move towards Albany prudent, or is it a dangerous gambit? Is Grandpre' key? I realize that Duquesne is highly important, but how does one successfully raid with the troops opened up by it?
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  19. #519
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    As i'm curently fighting the scenario as a French against Bornego, i'm interested
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    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ar-double-AAR: my first AAR. a french and indian war game vs Narwal

  20. #520
    Field Marshal loki100's Avatar
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    I think (& this is from some SP testing), that what I'd do now is 3 things with the French early on. First is try to establish a fort/good supply base at the south end of Champlain. That is a permanent threat to Albany and a block on any English raid into Canada. The second two are related. Last time I frittered away my southern Indians in a series of raids, I've since grouped them better but the south is still a dead end. So I'd leave about 25-30% in the south as an irritant (your opponent will have a great problem guessing how many you have) and take the bulk up to the region around Duquesne. Those plus the NE Indians, give you a lot of threat in a more critical area (in effect you can combine their actions with those of Montcalm's army), at the very worst when you lose the initiative if you've been dedicated to the task of burning stuff down, your opponent will really struggle to put together a well supplied invasion (esp in terms of being able to replace their losses).

    Finally I made a critical mistake in not defending outside cities, Naval landings onto active units invariably fail and the entire force tends to die in retreating from combat.

    I'd take Albany if I could, I know it triggers the massive English reinforcements but if you are going to win on VPs you need to hold it for a while. Combined with the Indian gambit above it might, just, give you the window of opportunity to raid down towards New York (unfortunately, if I recall, its too large to burn - which is a pity as that would create a supply & replacement wasteland for any overland attack into Canada.

    and .. of course, there can never be too many WiA AARs ...
    Remember, whatever the question, the answer on 18 September is Yes ...

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