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Thread: Springtime of Nations (Different 1836 Scenario)

  1. #21
    First Secretary Frymonmon's Avatar
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    Hmm. I think you idea does have merit here. I think that at game start, England should be at war with Quebec, who is allied with the Metis Confederacy, trying to gain its independence. I named this Springtime of Nations mostly to promote unlikely candidates for being high up in power, or at least independent. There is not supposed to be any real "Super Power" in the world, everything should be vulnerable, in their own ways.

    Etham194, as for you Northwest Suggestion, I would like to know how the UK and USA ended up with the miss-matched territories? In my current setup, British Colombia is a British Colony on the Pacific, while American Washington is supposed to be a trading post with (unadded) Native American nations.
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  2. #22
    More random ideas:

    - Russia: Maybe they didn't expand to the East so much (or didn't focus on solidifying their claims, explorations, and settlements there - it's a somewhat open area still), with the Kamchatka/Siberia area uncolonized or only slightly colonized (and Alaska also uncolonized, or left to another empire [France?]). A more Westward facing Russia (and it could also expand a little more to the South, fostering closer relations (or having a bigger history of skirmishes with) the Central Asian states and cutting more into the Ottoman Empire) could be interesting. The Asian North Pacific area could be a general colonization target to be split among the various powers (including Russia, but only a concentrated effort would get them all the way to the sea before the others got there).

    - Chinese Civil War: Sounds like you have an idea for this already, but I might as well throw in an idea (maybe you might find parts of it interesting) :
    It starts out with an internally troubled Qing Dynasty (QNG) and its ally (possibly even satellite, to begin with) Manchuria. This represents the Manchurians not entirely integrated into the concept of "China", and there's less need for that perhaps given less pressure from Russia.

    There's a rebel Chinese (CHI) "Dynasty" (but starting as a popular movement and the leaders have only tenuous ties to any claim to royalty) brewing in the South, given the early loss of the Mandate of Heaven by the Qing due to their defeat to the West earlier. This rebellion is rabidly anti-foreign and isolationist. Meanwhile, the Qing and Manchu are doing the best they can to westernize due to the obvious need. The cores for this
    spread like CSA cores in the American Civil War events, except faster.

    When things finally come to blows (again, like the ACW events), this rebel China breaks off controlling most of China, with only tiny holdings left of the Qing Empire in China proper.

    Things get worse as Russia has a decision to break off a Central Asian "Republic" from the Western territories (Xinjiang, Mongolia, Gansu, Qinghai). The Qing can let it go or face off yet another civil war to try to gain them back (and most likely Russia would join in to protect their ally). If Russia spheres or conquers the other Central Asian states, they will also join into this republic. The Qing do not have any cores to retake their lands after they peace out of the civil wars, and are left as a vestigal state (with CHI cores, so after recovering from the first war the new dynasty might keep attacking).

    Manchuria goes on with the headstart and advantages of westernizing like Japan in vanilla. They can slowly drift away from propping up the Qing Dynasty (as the Manchu leaders in the surviving state have less obligations to keep those in the old dying empire alive).
    The Qing can maybe rebound, but are mostly just there to get absorbed by the Chinese Dynasty, quickly or slowly.
    The New Chinese Dynasty (maybe neo-Han, neo-Ming or something, but most likely just some new name) is a big isolationist hulk, somewhat like China in the OTL, but smaller and thus more likely to get picked on by the Europeans.
    The Central Asian "Republic" (in the grand tradition of "let's call it a republic so it gets more Western support") is a puppet formed by Russian pressure and influence (well, not a satellite in game-terms - a sphereling, though, if Russia's a GP). They'll have strong nationalist feelings that can break them, and might distance themselves from Russia later.
    Maybe also let a pacific power nab Taiwan when the Chinese are distracted. Then we have lots of imperialist holdings to aggravate the new dynasty.

    - Philippines: If you're thinking of de-Polandizing them as part of the "Polish colonies will be reduced", maybe give them to the Dutch to expand their South-East Asian territories. Then, somewhat late-game, the Dutch have decisions and events letting them either release the whole thing as a satellite (similar to Canada) or have it revolt with pan-Asian (well, pan-some-Asian. Pan-Pacific?) feelings.

    - Somewhere: Maybe in one of the places with multiple colonizing powers there can be a nationalist uprising that starts several civil wars at once (like, maybe Australia - a unified rebel Australia would revolt from each of the colonizers, prompting all of them to try to gain their lands back). Australia, Siberia, India, Africa might be possible locations.

    - Arabia: Maybe if we have a civilized Arabian state, the Ottomans (or whatever is there) will be uncivilized?
    Interactive AARs:
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  3. #23
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    Gloa, do you want to be on this modding team? You have a very good set of ideas for the Pacific region - one that I do not know much about to be honest.

    As for the whole Chinese idea, I already like it. I'm saving that and integrating it into the mod.

    In regards to Russia, I'm not entirely sure I would like for them to lose their Pacific holdings (inc. Alaska) I guess something could be worked in, with Russia teaming with the Greek State to become the "Defender of Christianity" and eliminating the Ottomans from Anarka, which would leave a civilized Iraq to occupy the old Turkish lands south of Anarka. Although not an Arabian nation, it is fairly close to Europe to not mess with the balance of things, and it would be the replacement for the Ottoman Empire (Which, could be a revolver nation that breaks away from Russia)

    De-Polanizing so far is going well. The Philippines have been given to the Dutch at the expense of Indonesia being broken up into small states like India is now. To counter balance India, the civilized nation is going to be a Satellite of the United Kingdom, only with an option to break away post-1860ish. This way it cannot unite India by attacking only Indian Uncivs, but instead must take out Indian Uncivs and Western Powers.

    I do, however, like your idea like Australia. Currently Australia has the Primary British, with Dutch and Spanish as accepted. Western Australia is no longer in the "United Australia" sphere, there is a separate "Western Australia" there with a Polish Primary Culture. However, Australia proper still has cores in Western Australia.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Frymonmon View Post
    Gloa, do you want to be on this modding team? You have a very good set of ideas for the Pacific region - one that I do not know much about to be honest.
    Well, I can't do much actual modding at all (with my Broken Dragon mod taking all of my measly work in that regard), but if you want ideas and general outlines of event chains, I can definitely help.

    In regards to Russia, I'm not entirely sure I would like for them to lose their Pacific holdings (inc. Alaska) I guess something could be worked in, with Russia teaming with the Greek State to become the "Defender of Christianity" and eliminating the Ottomans from Anarka, which would leave a civilized Iraq to occupy the old Turkish lands south of Anarka. Although not an Arabian nation, it is fairly close to Europe to not mess with the balance of things, and it would be the replacement for the Ottoman Empire (Which, could be a revolver nation that breaks away from Russia)
    Sounds good. Reaching towards the Mediterranean and having somewhat secure routes out of the Black Sea would change the focus of Russia (and give it a handy reason to not colonize the East as heavily).

    I don't think the Ottomans would survive as a revolter from Russia. Surely some kind of Turkish movement, but maybe a more regional one (with the option for Iraq, Turkey, and the Arabian states to form The Caliphate if they sphere/control the rest?).

    I do, however, like your idea like Australia. Currently Australia has the Primary British, with Dutch and Spanish as accepted. Western Australia is no longer in the "United Australia" sphere, there is a separate "Western Australia" there with a Polish Primary Culture. However, Australia proper still has cores in Western Australia.
    So what's the layout of Australia now? Independent W-Australia and Australia to begin with, with Spanish and Dutch settlements there too?

    Other ideas
    - Maybe to bulk up Denmark a bit we could give them one of the Guyanas (switching them out around different nations in general).
    - Maybe a nationalist rebellion between the Guyanas, with all the colonizer states facing their territories united as one rebel state (CSA style, but for them all). Give the U.S. and maybe Brazil the chance to intervene based on Monroe Doctrine style grounds - not wanting more European opression in the Americas - so they have some chance.
    - Dutch Alaska, maybe? Maybe even with some Dutch settlements further south (Vancouver Island, perhaps?).
    - Hawaii could be the grounds for a diplomatic and intrigue battle, supporting coups or propping up the government to sway it to one side or another as the Pacific powers try to use it as a trading post.
    - To make room for Japan-style-Manchuria, what should we do with Japan?
    Interactive AARs:
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - To make room for Japan-style-Manchuria, what should we do with Japan?
    Divide it into five?


    And I have made some Chinese revolters for my (abandoned) personal mod

  6. #26
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    Something ive always wanted to see and would be different from every other alter vicky mod would be if korea conqerd japan or atleat is at war with them at the beggining perhaps the koreans have had a very long rebelian against the japs but the war has taken a turn for the worst and korea is ocupinig the home islands it this is the aftermath of a long and bloody ocupation from the Japanese http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...wPMe2g&cad=rja
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan194 View Post
    Something ive always wanted to see and would be different from every other alter vicky mod would be if korea conqerd japan or atleat is at war with them at the beggining perhaps the koreans have had a very long rebelian against the japs but the war has taken a turn for the worst and korea is ocupinig the home islands it this is the aftermath of a long and bloody ocupation from the Japanese http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...wPMe2g&cad=rja
    Since that war was more than two centuries away from the game start, I doubt that even if Korea counterattacked Japan, the war and occupation should have ended long ago, but it could have some long-term impact on Japan:

    Korea invaded the Home Islands:
    →Small holdings got wiped out
    →Stronger Daimyos retook the land from Koreans
    →More major powers (like post-Napoleanic Germany)
    Toyotomi lose worse than in OTL:
    →Daimyos broke off from his control
    →Tokugawa could't unite Japan by launching hegemony war
    Unification of Japan:
    →Stronger daimyos slow the process down
    →A "compromise" style unification, so some Daimyos are still semi independent
    →Population and literacy decrease

  8. #28
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    But this is an alter vicky mod if german mexico is in this mod than so can korean japan and it would make things more intresting and no one else has tried it.
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  9. #29
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    To respond to Gloa:

    Talking about the Turks, right now I have the old Ottoman Empire divided up between the Balkan States, Greece, Russia, and Iraq. I plan on making some sort of turkish aggitation to the states with turks in them. Russia and Greece could get events like "Turkish resistance works aginst local RGO efforts" and the affected provinces would get negative RGO effects and whatnot. Under extreme circumstances, the Turksih movement could declare independence from Greece/Russia if those countries are in a bad shape.

    Over in Australia, I still plan on having Poland holding Western Australia, with Spain holding North Queensland, and the Dutch holding Darwin. England will control the South Island of New Zealand and the Australian Eastern coast. Spain will have the north island.

    South Pacific: Indonesia will be more or less uncolonised, uncivved states that are free for the picking. The Dutch will now hold the Phillipenes, Maco will be Poish, Hong Kong will be Dutch. Concession ports in the north will be distrubuted between Spain/England/Dutch/Ireland.

    North Pacific: Hawai'i will be a very lucrative tipping point now, Alaska will have Dutch and Spanish settlers. North East Russia will have an uncivved Siberia with maybe a small, European settlement.

    Over in North America, the Carribean Islands and Guyana are going to be removed from the Anglo-French dominence. I plan on having the USA/Dutch/Danish/Spanish/Venetians own it. Cuba stars as independent, but is at war with the USA.

    As for Korea-Japan, they will stay as they are in vanilla for the moment.
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  10. #30
    Edit: You posted the above post just as I was writing mine, so...
    - Turkey and Australia sound cool. If we want Australia to revolt/be freed at some time, what could cause them to form a nationalist identity of their own?
    - Unless Ireland's been awhile, I don't think they'd get a concession port of their own. The rest sound reasonable, and maybe the Portugese as well.
    - Caribbean/Guayana sounds like a good mix.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzKatze View Post
    Divide it into five?
    Hmm. What is the background for the divisions?

    And I have made some Chinese revolters for my (abandoned) personal mod
    Hmm, we could use some revolters for the New Dynasty (not so much to revolt, but maybe to break off with Western support if the Dynasty tries to militarily modernize but not reform in other ways). Those could be useful. Ningxia would get cut in half, though, between the New Dynasty Chinese lands and the Central Asian lands.

    How much did you modify flags, governments, etc. for those revolters? I'm asking because I'm also working on a mod for China which could use a couple more warlord cliques added in (Fujian and Sichuan almost surely, and Anhui/Fengtian/Zhili where Hunan/Shandong/Nanjing/Beijing are).


    Anyway, more ideas:

    - Xinjiang, Mongolia, Gansu, and Qinghai could have revolters who would break off of the beleaguered Qing Empire even if Russia wasn't in a position to - or decided not to - form the Central Asian Republic (Gansu and Qinghai might get one revolter which would take both). These would just break off one at a time, though, and without outside support, so the Qing maybe could subdue them each in turn if they were fast enough. These would also be the breakaway states from the main Central Asian Republic, should it begin to crumble.

    - Russia could start with a large Turkish nationalist uprising forcing its attention to the West (just rebels, not a breakaway state [or maybe a very small breakaway state] - but occupations and large armies at the game start, with unprepared Russian positions). Not something to throw them out of power or give too much of a chance for Turkish early independence, but something to give them something to worry about.

    - Scandinavia: We could split up Sweden and Norway, leaving three nations with the ability to form Scandinavia. Instead of forming one continuous nation, the major power (whichever one spheres the others and gets past the events and decisions to form Scandinavia) could just become the SCA tag, holding the others as vassals and spherelings. If the other nations were willing, this could eventually lead to complete unification. Rising powers from within the union could disrupt this though, and maybe even break up the union.

    - Finland: If Finland got too unhappy in Russia's rule, or Scandinavia started to form, it could revolt off like the CSA in the Civil War. Scandinavian states would be able to intervene on its side, and would be encouraged to do so. Scandinavia could also demand its release from Russia, and if Russia refused could go to war over it.

    - Neo-Brandenburg: Can one of the flags be the Prussian eagle in between gold and red stripes?

    - South America: Maybe have three main powers here. Brazil, the Peru-Bolivian Confederation, and a nation in the Southern cone, unifying Argentina and Chile (just how the nations revolted and unified). Each would have unfulfilled claims and cores against each other, especially around Paraguay and Uruguay. There could also be the Rio Grande du Sol and a Patagonian nation at the start, at war with Brazil and Argentina respectively (or at least with their cores). The Northern section would stay roughly the same, maybe with a few more Guyana type colonies taken out of Venezuela, and a slightly different origin for that state (a different original colonizer). The Guyanas could revolt from their European owners and become a fourth small northern state. The larger American powers could help in this fight.

    - Brazil could start as a Presidential Dictatorship, fighting the Rio-Grande du Sol and with a large Jacobin revolution at home. Thus, depending on where it puts its troops, it may or may not become a democracy and may or may not be able to subdue RGdS. Maybe Peru-Bolivia also as a Pres. Dictatorship and Argentina as a Democracy to begin with.

    - We could give the U.S. a different Civil War opportunity. A difficult way of outlawing slavery, a chance to separate peacefully, and the regular Civil War.
    - Also, some more possible secessionist movements (a less federalist U.S. [hey, could we have them just be using a modified Articles of Confederation?]). A way for New England to break off, maybe New York, and definitely something for the more isolated Western territories.
    - Also, perhaps if any of those (or other U.S. states/possible breakoff unions) is totally occupied by rebels, they can just declare their independence (Georgia's totally controlled by Communists? Oh well, they can just secede as Communist Georgia).

    - Maybe a less German influenced U.S. too, since they'd have their own colony to go to.

    - If they were a Democracy and a GP, maybe Peru-Bolivia could give Ecuador the chance to join them (it could refuse peacefully, and wouldn't be likely to do so most of the time).

    - Maybe give the north of Egypt to the Greek State or as its own independent Greek-State/Russia propped up Coptic state around Alexandria. The rest could maybe be Egypt or known as something to do with the Nile, perhaps. Part of it could be uncolonized.

    - Maybe separate Dutch and British South Africa with the breakaways (the breakaways were partially colonized by each power and the power that they didn't break off of sort of wants to absorb them, if they stay free).

    - Maybe some more options for Austria, trying to form the Holy Roman Empire again (but it would be rather weakly held together, and it would make them give up Hungary and other such things).
    Interactive AARs:
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  11. #31
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    Interesting, though I would like there to be a grandduchy of Estonia!
    Here's a suggestion for Germany though: Add more states that have the capability of unifying Germany.
    For example, A unified Hesse. This state would have quite the higher chance to do something than it would divided (as in OTL).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frymonmon View Post
    - Austrian Empire renamed to Hapsburg Empire
    No, just no. If anything, it should be called "The Habsburg Monarchy".
    AFAIK, there was officially never such a thing called the Habsburg Empire. Oh right sure there's the Austrian Empire but it isn't the same thing.

    EDIT: To the below poster: No, they would never do that.
    There's also the fact that it has no claim to that name, what with being composed of very few HRE lands.
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  12. #32
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    could cool it the holy roman empire.
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  13. #33
    It starts out with an internally troubled Qing Dynasty (QNG) and its ally (possibly even satellite, to begin with) Manchuria. This represents the Manchurians not entirely integrated into the concept of "China", and there's less need for that perhaps given less pressure from Russia.
    The Qing ARE Manchurian. Lolwhat?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega124 View Post
    The Qing ARE Manchurian. Lolwhat?
    Precisely. The Manchurian homeland is thus kept distinct from the Chinese Empire they nabbed from the Ming Dynasty.

    OTL - The general weakness of Manchuria compared to the larger Chinese holdings, along with Russian pressure on Manchuria forced them to blur the lines between the two countries they lead. In one major case, to keep it from being colonized by Russia, they let Han Chinese migrate to the territory to settle it, and now it's seen as a part of China proper.

    Here - Russia isn't trying to colonize Manchuria, and the loss of the Mandate of Heaven and other troubles make the Qing Dynasty in China less stable. When the rebellions sweep China and basically overthrow the Qing (or at least oust them from the South and most of China), the modernizing Manchuria again becomes the larger and more lucrative holding for the Qing. It's never really opened to Han settlement as a part of China, and distances itself from that as their "dynasty" in China crumbles.

    (Having Manchuria as a satellite of a Qing Empire (at the beginning) represents this division between the Manchurian holdings and makes sure that the Qing can get attacked easily and that Manchuria proper will respond to these attacks. )
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    Hmm. What is the background for the divisions?
    We already have the "Army of Daimyo Mori/Shimazu/Date/Maeda" in vanilla, so I use them and separate their region into a new daimyo holding to make room for a civilized Manchuria

    The background can partly be my reply to Ethan, and partly a bad end in one of those Koei games(If failed to unite Japan in time, you'll have CGs telling that Europeans start to take concessions from Japan and even Manchurians have a share)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    Hmm, we could use some revolters for the New Dynasty (not so much to revolt, but maybe to break off with Western support if the Dynasty tries to militarily modernize but not reform in other ways). Those could be useful. Ningxia would get cut in half, though, between the New Dynasty Chinese lands and the Central Asian lands.

    How much did you modify flags, governments, etc. for those revolters? I'm asking because I'm also working on a mod for China which could use a couple more warlord cliques added in (Fujian and Sichuan almost surely, and Anhui/Fengtian/Zhili where Hunan/Shandong/Nanjing/Beijing are).
    I've only finished the localisation and giving them distinctive colors
    and just noticed that I messed up Henan and Hunan

  16. #36
    First Secretary Frymonmon's Avatar
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    Here are the Austrian Localization Files;

    Code:
    AUS_proletarian_dictatorship;Austrian People's Republic;Austrian People's Republic;Austrian People's Republic;;Austrian People's Republic;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_presidential_dictatorship;Habsburg State;Habsburg State;Habsburg State;;Habsburg State;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_bourgeois_dictatorship;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;;Austrian Empire;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_fascist_dictatorship;Greater Austrian Empire;Greater Austrian Empire;Greater Austrian Empire;;Greater Austrian Empire;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_prussian_constitutionalism;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;;Austrian Empire;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_democracy;United States of Austria;United States of Austria;United States of Austria;;United States of Austria;;;;;;;;;x
    AUS_absolute_monarchy;Habsburg Monarchy;Habsburg Monarchy;Habsburg Monarchy;;Habsburg Monarchy;;;;;;;;x ;
    AUS_hms_government;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;Austrian Empire;;Austrian Empire;;;;;;;;x ;
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - Xinjiang, Mongolia, Gansu, and Qinghai could have revolters who would break off of the beleaguered Qing Empire even if Russia wasn't in a position to - or decided not to - form the Central Asian Republic (Gansu and Qinghai might get one revolter which would take both). These would just break off one at a time, though, and without outside support, so the Qing maybe could subdue them each in turn if they were fast enough. These would also be the breakaway states from the main Central Asian Republic, should it begin to crumble.
    I'm just going to leave you to the China. Your experience with your mod would really help here, and I hope that we can integrate some of it into this mod.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - Russia could start with a large Turkish nationalist uprising forcing its attention to the West (just rebels, not a breakaway state [or maybe a very small breakaway state] - but occupations and large armies at the game start, with unprepared Russian positions). Not something to throw them out of power or give too much of a chance for Turkish early independence, but something to give them something to worry about.
    Right now, I think that this is a good way to go. I'm thinking we can use the Vanilla Russia files, with a large revolt with High Con and Militancy in Anarka. This way there is no chance of a Turkish Independence, but it would draw away Russian forces down to the Middle East.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - Scandinavia: We could split up Sweden and Norway, leaving three nations with the ability to form Scandinavia. Instead of forming one continuous nation, the major power (whichever one spheres the others and gets past the events and decisions to form Scandinavia) could just become the SCA tag, holding the others as vassals and spherelings. If the other nations were willing, this could eventually lead to complete unification. Rising powers from within the union could disrupt this though, and maybe even break up the union.

    - Finland: If Finland got too unhappy in Russia's rule, or Scandinavia started to form, it could revolt off like the CSA in the Civil War. Scandinavian states would be able to intervene on its side, and would be encouraged to do so. Scandinavia could also demand its release from Russia, and if Russia refused could go to war over it.
    Well. Right now, I have Denmark-Norway making a return, and with Sweden still owning Finland. Both of these countries can both split up to make Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland, but they could also unite to become Scandinavia by War/Diplomacy/Sphereing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - Neo-Brandenburg: Can one of the flags be the Prussian eagle in between gold and red stripes?
    Sure. Right now, Brandenburg only has one default flag, which is the Prussian Flag but it has red stripes and a Red Eagle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - South America: Maybe have three main powers here. Brazil, the Peru-Bolivian Confederation, and a nation in the Southern cone, unifying Argentina and Chile (just how the nations revolted and unified). Each would have unfulfilled claims and cores against each other, especially around Paraguay and Uruguay. There could also be the Rio Grande du Sol and a Patagonian nation at the start, at war with Brazil and Argentina respectively (or at least with their cores). The Northern section would stay roughly the same, maybe with a few more Guyana type colonies taken out of Venezuela, and a slightly different origin for that state (a different original colonizer). The Guyanas could revolt from their European owners and become a fourth small northern state. The larger American powers could help in this fight.

    - Brazil could start as a Presidential Dictatorship, fighting the Rio-Grande du Sol and with a large Jacobin revolution at home. Thus, depending on where it puts its troops, it may or may not become a democracy and may or may not be able to subdue RGdS. Maybe Peru-Bolivia also as a Pres. Dictatorship and Argentina as a Democracy to begin with.
    Your ideas have merit here. I think that Venezuela can have a lot of its coast distributed to European Powers to give them a larger American presence. I like the idea of a Union country of Chile and Argentina, at the expense of a decolonised Patagonia. This Union country would be at war with Brazil and Peru-Bolivia over the disputed Para/Uruguay region. However, Brazil would peace out earlier due to Rio-Grande du Sol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - We could give the U.S. a different Civil War opportunity. A difficult way of outlawing slavery, a chance to separate peacefully, and the regular Civil War.
    - Also, some more possible secessionist movements (a less federalist U.S. [hey, could we have them just be using a modified Articles of Confederation?]). A way for New England to break off, maybe New York, and definitely something for the more isolated Western territories.
    - Also, perhaps if any of those (or other U.S. states/possible breakoff unions) is totally occupied by rebels, they can just declare their independence (Georgia's totally controlled by Communists? Oh well, they can just secede as Communist Georgia).
    Right now I am thinking of giving the USA three options for a Civil War. The first one would be the South seceding like normal. The second would be the Western States seceding with the South staying in the Union. A war could be avoided completely at a high cost, to the extent of even dropping the USA out of Great Power status.
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  17. #37
    Wait a minute, if we're going to have New Brandenburg, why not have Klein-Venedig?

  18. #38
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    I was planning on Partitioning the Venezuelan Coast, Prussia was going to get Klein-Venedig, although it would be much smaller.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzKatze View Post
    We already have the "Army of Daimyo Mori/Shimazu/Date/Maeda" in vanilla, so I use them and separate their region into a new daimyo holding to make room for a civilized Manchuria

    The background can partly be my reply to Ethan, and partly a bad end in one of those Koei games(If failed to unite Japan in time, you'll have CGs telling that Europeans start to take concessions from Japan and even Manchurians have a share)
    Ah. Yes, that could work. Splitting it into stronger but diverse warlords basically would impede the union. Maybe setting up alliances or other factors so that one leader would find it hard, even if they had some advantage, to just unite Japan by force? Military ascent by one group would cause the others to unite more?

    Maybe they never banned foreigners and Christians, leading to one or more of the groups being Christian? Maybe each daimyo is controlled by a different foreign power, as they've slowly gained influence over the years? (controlled meaning sphere at the start)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frymonmon View Post
    I'm just going to leave you to the China. Your experience with your mod would really help here, and I hope that we can integrate some of it into this mod.
    Hmm.

    - Do you think we'll want a China formed from satellite states? Maybe just split it (china-yellow) north-south-central-outer(Mongolia, Xinjiang, Gansu, Qinghai), with the war breaking off (light-blue) QNG to denote loyalist Qing Dynasty settlements in any of the original provinces, and the four old tags as the revolting China (with the Central Asian Republic possibly forming out of outer-China, or breakaway states Qinghai-Gansu, Xinjiang, and Mongolia).
    - Or just leave out that system (I don't know if we can "transfer" satellites from one nation (the Qing Dynasty) to another (the new Dynasty) without annexing and releasing them, and the logistics of that get complicated if someone wants to play one of them).

    - Taiping and Boxers wouldn't really fit, since those concepts sort of got merged to form the New Dynasty China.

    - Warlord core spread might work. We could have an early warlord breakoff from New Dynasty China. The Western ones would be there at the beginning (Gansu, Qinghai, Xinjiang, Mongolia - so they could break away during the revolution. The other ones could do a lot of damage as the New Dynasty weakens, though (no modernization: Europeans start nabbing concession ports and Manchuria might try to reconquer land to prop up the Qing - just military modernization: Warlord cores spread. Western powers prop these up if they break off. - full westernization: Possibly rebellions, strong Communist/Fascists perhaps).

    Right now, I think that this is a good way to go. I'm thinking we can use the Vanilla Russia files, with a large revolt with High Con and Militancy in Anarka. This way there is no chance of a Turkish Independence, but it would draw away Russian forces down to the Middle East.

    Well. Right now, I have Denmark-Norway making a return, and with Sweden still owning Finland. Both of these countries can both split up to make Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland, but they could also unite to become Scandinavia by War/Diplomacy/Sphereing
    Maybe have a vassal-Scandinavia (one nation becomes Scandinavia, the rest are released as vassals to it) as an intermediate step to the full thing? It seems like a union which would be slowly eased into, rather than outright coalescing at one point.

    I think some kind of tension between Scandinavian states and Russia (maybe Russian cores in Finland - maybe only a partial Finland to begin with?) might also help focus the bear on the West. It's a big nation but with a lot of enemies around it.

    Sure. Right now, Brandenburg only has one default flag, which is the Prussian Flag but it has red stripes and a Red Eagle.
    So its symbol is a red eagle? Hmm, maybe something like this, then...

    (or, if a black eagle is better [regardless of my poor job at coloring that eagle red])



    Your ideas have merit here. I think that Venezuela can have a lot of its coast distributed to European Powers to give them a larger American presence. I like the idea of a Union country of Chile and Argentina, at the expense of a decolonised Patagonia. This Union country would be at war with Brazil and Peru-Bolivia over the disputed Para/Uruguay region. However, Brazil would peace out earlier due to Rio-Grande du Sol.
    - Maybe we could give all of Venezuela to European powers (basically like Guyana), with Brazil and Colombia absorbing a little around the borders. Depends on how many western powers we want to fill in here.

    - I don't think we should have too many wars at the very beginning. Maybe Union vs. Uruguay (rebel state that broke off from them) + Brazil (propping up that rebel state), and Brazil vs. Rio-Grande du Sol. We can leave tensions around Paraguay, though, and around the Union-Confederation border (the Bolivia/Chile area is sort of a hot spot for squabbles) by setting up contradictory alliances and cores and stuff. Once Brazil and the Union recover from their fights, they'd turn to that one too.

    Right now I am thinking of giving the USA three options for a Civil War. The first one would be the South seceding like normal. The second would be the Western States seceding with the South staying in the Union. A war could be avoided completely at a high cost, to the extent of even dropping the USA out of Great Power status.
    Why would the West secede and the South stay in the Union? I'd think on secession would encourage the next, and the West and South don't traditionally have a big tug-o-war over policy (compared to the North-South tariff and slavery issues - if one is accommodated, the other flies out in anger).

    Maybe part of the high cost (or another way to try to avoid the secession) would be to change to a presidential dictatorship (maybe a South-friendly one). This would keep the South in, but the West and the North (at least New England and New York regions) would possibly break off.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    Ah. Yes, that could work. Splitting it into stronger but diverse warlords basically would impede the union. Maybe setting up alliances or other factors so that one leader would find it hard, even if they had some advantage, to just unite Japan by force? Military ascent by one group would cause the others to unite more?

    Maybe they never banned foreigners and Christians, leading to one or more of the groups being Christian? Maybe each daimyo is controlled by a different foreign power, as they've slowly gained influence over the years? (controlled meaning sphere at the start)
    Even in OTL, the Shimazu clan used Ryukyu to avoid China's embargo on Japan and Tokugawa's ban on foreign trade, so it will be the main opposition to the Shogunate, however alliance is too fragile ingame and satellite seems to be a bit too harsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloa View Post
    - Do you think we'll want a China formed from satellite states? Maybe just split it (china-yellow) north-south-central-outer(Mongolia, Xinjiang, Gansu, Qinghai), with the war breaking off (light-blue) QNG to denote loyalist Qing Dynasty settlements in any of the original provinces, and the four old tags as the revolting China (with the Central Asian Republic possibly forming out of outer-China, or breakaway states Qinghai-Gansu, Xinjiang, and Mongolia).
    - Or just leave out that system (I don't know if we can "transfer" satellites from one nation (the Qing Dynasty) to another (the new Dynasty) without annexing and releasing them, and the logistics of that get complicated if someone wants to play one of them).

    - Taiping and Boxers wouldn't really fit, since those concepts sort of got merged to form the New Dynasty China.

    - Warlord core spread might work. We could have an early warlord breakoff from New Dynasty China. The Western ones would be there at the beginning (Gansu, Qinghai, Xinjiang, Mongolia - so they could break away during the revolution. The other ones could do a lot of damage as the New Dynasty weakens, though (no modernization: Europeans start nabbing concession ports and Manchuria might try to reconquer land to prop up the Qing - just military modernization: Warlord cores spread. Western powers prop these up if they break off. - full westernization: Possibly rebellions, strong Communist/Fascists perhaps).
    I drew this before reading your post so it may not fit your idea:

    So the southern part of China should stay Qing at the beginning?

    - Is it possible to add modifiers which slows down the speed of GP influence? Sleeping Dragon event every second year doesn't seem to be a good idea.
    - Some potential concession port province could use anti-isolationism OPM revolters who would seek protection of a GP upon independence:
    Code:
    		diplomatic_influence = {
    			who = FROM
    			value = 500
    		}
    - Should a civilized Manchuria go for China, Central Asia or Korea and Japan? We can have some flavor event/decisions for that

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