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Thread: Precautions shouldn't be able to damage equipment

  1. #1
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    Precautions shouldn't be able to damage equipment

    One of many ways of discouraging players from ever entering the DG are the high level precautions.

    One good Plague and one good Genocide and you suddenly get -40 or -50 durability trashing all your gear on one of units without any chance to actually prevent or defend from that.

    Hitting non-prem players of low and high levels alike this vastly contributes to the lack of activity in the PvP because it hugely increases the Tribute costs of PvP-ing in the second half of each era. Even with repairing items to 1/20 after each fight you still get to pay extra 5T because plagued/genocided units are often elites or support whom you wouldn't otherwise lose often. Meaning 20 free Tribute we get a day suddenly starts getting thin when you try to cover your PvP expenses with it.

    Please disable item damage from precautions. Or best disable item damage altogether as long as the unit got healed after the battle. This will let more casual PvP-ers play DG on regular basis without having to fear their items go to trash just with one precaution on opponent's side - precaution everyone has researched by now.
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  2. #2
    you know why nobody mentioned this before? cause till now all top PvPers were premium. So they dont even knew that delra. Its so stupid to allow such thing that all their arguments about gear decay will go to a swim. I remember Shadow saying: "how you lose equipment in PvP?? I dont loose equipment! I never repaired gear in 1 era! you need to learn not to loose troops! " --> maybe precautions dont hit moderators or he is a fool talking about some "PvP" dream he doesnt know anything off. Go PvP brandt on islands.. He comes defending, makes genocide.. enters game.. leaves. Reapets again.. untill he got me to 0 gear. then fights and still looses cause he lacks skill but then again, I had lost over 50tribute.

    who can support this?

  3. #3
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    Go PvP brandt on islands.. He comes defending, makes genocide.. enters game.. leaves. Reapets again.. untill he got me to 0 gear. then fights and still looses cause he lacks skill but then again, I had lost over 50tribute.
    Case closed?

    Yet another exploit that makes premium players bully all non-premium out of DG - and later complain there's only 5 people to fight against. Might be intentionally or not - I don't want to judge that - but it hurts the whole community and the game itself in the long run.

    PvP can't be resurrected as a popular and regular activity of all players if this isn't addressed.
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  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Precautions are fine, and gear decay was already addressed many times.

    Its actually other change that makes this possible. That is how many recruit AND soldiers you have. If you had like 5-10 of units you need, and few elites in case of need, neither of those precs could hurt you as they do now. But if you have 30+ troops in every slot, expect being hit hard by those precs. Because those precs iirc processes on random squad type and then with percentual chance on every single squad of that type. That means if you have 30 paws, then with 10% chance there is almsot guaranteed 2 of them will die on that. If you had only 10 of those, there would be chance that 1 squad would get killed.


    But tbh, back in Dreamlords Reawakening there was lots of pvpers who didnt have premium (including me), PvP was way more alive (including island fights) and there was maybe few topics addressing durability loss (and it was that np had 5 at max, p had 3 at max per fight). With only 10 tribute per day. Once again, community changed, in somehow bad way in my eyes...

  5. #5
    so you recommend we place only 10units? thats your solution? I make a plague/genocyde and I guanrantee you i kill more them 3. ( kill atleast 2 and disable other 2) they you fight with 6units? while premiums fight with all? thats how fair it is for you keeks? well , come fight with 6squads Vs me and after 5min you are dropping the game without units.

    and your reply about Xploits made possible due to this? = 0

    and 5 at max per fight you say? with 10tribute/day? tell me more lies or maybe you did 2fights/day? lol.. thats not PvP.. thats hitting Dg for mistake while you wanted to see you PvP level. PvP = making over 10fights/day in Dg and batling in Islands alot.

  6. #6
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    Precautions are fine
    Are you serious?

    Once again, community changed, in somehow bad way in my eyes...
    Yea, we're so horrible for pointing out to devs what weaknesses in game design and what bugs/exploits discourage people from participating more in the PvP part of it. Like Goths sacking Rome.
    Last edited by delra; 23-06-2011 at 21:06.
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    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    @danval: pointing out your flaws. Yes, we used to fight this way, when it was actually possible to run out of units in top tier battle. Not like now, when you just spam spam and spam, because you can.

    And yes, because there was way less units in play, and players were more careful about those (=sending back to sh). 2 days per day? Way more, I remember when we (LOE) were locking down top tier island with boss, just for fun. It took about 2 hours of defending/attacking before everyone gave up, so we killed that boss. Thats about 5 fights for each CV member. And nobody cared about durability...

    @delra: yes, precautions are fine. The number of recruits is the issue that needs to be addressed.
    And you're not pointing flaws anymore, all of you are just whining at this point, as everything was said about dozen times already and you keep to say it again. Community got greedy, wanting all advantages of paying people for free players. I'll tell you the secret, THATS NOT HOW IT SHOULD WORK. Running game like this costs money, and if the game doesnt pay for itself, it will be just abandoned. So either pay, or stop whining that paying ppl have better conditions in few ways, because its THEM who enables you to play free. And atm there is NONE advantage that would make paying players have significant advantage in the game itself. Divine interventions were removed from PvP, Summons got removed from game - I cant even imagine the river you all would cry on this forum if those things were still in. So please stop whining here, devs DO care about ballance of game between paying/free players, but they NEED to have some income from this game. Either go with it, or feel free to leave, you dont need to point one single thing 100 times.

    Getting sick of you tbh, not really going to react on any of your other cries in here, its pointless to repeat myself

  8. #8
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    Well. You're the one offering nothing but whine here. If it's so great - why is it so empty? If changes were made to make it popular and it's not popular - how those changes can be considered to be enough? If it doesn't need any improvements, why are almost all players sitting at 0 BR? If the community used to be great - where are those people now and what made them quit?

    You just don't get how making PvP into a premium activity and limiting it to an elite club of 5-10 people throughout the era makes this game lose players and business over time by killing an entire feature of it that's supposed to be the one bringing people in - not sending them out ("I'll go play Eve for a while" to quote today's chat). And makes it freaking boring for those poor 5-10 dudes too since they always fight same half a dozen of people - over and over and over again.

    feel free to leave
    Maybe later. :-)
    Last edited by delra; 23-06-2011 at 22:15.
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  9. #9
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    Well. You're the one offering nothing but whine here. If it's so great - why is it so empty? If changes were made to make it popular and it's not popular - how those changes can be considered to be enough? If it doesn't need any improvements, why are almost all players sitting at 0 BR? If the community used to be great - where are those people now and what made them quit?

    You just don't get how making PvP into a premium activity and limiting it to an elite club of 5-10 people throughout the era makes this game lose players and business over time by killing an entire feature of it that's supposed to be the one bringing people in - not sending them out ("I'll go play Eve for a while" to quote today's chat). And makes it freaking boring for those poor 5-10 dudes too since they always fight same half a dozen of people - over and over and over again.
    I posted in the PvP topic, you're pointing in wrong direction in this topic. Most of the community left because LPE claimed bankruptcy (including me). See this for example:
    http://dreamlords.referata.com/wiki/Low_Tide
    AotA, Kenshiro, Yomega, Yaffle...all great players that are gone now. But try to see the stats of all the players - Island attacks/defenses. And even premium lost up to 3 durability per match. But it was no issue back then. So tell me, why is it issue now? Because its F2P game, so most players thinks that they should get everything for free? Again, not going to work this way. Until the players understands that, until they stop screaming "we want the same benefits like premium has, BUT FOR FREE", even the best change wouldnt help.

    So tell me - back then it worked like - "oh gosh, my gear is broken. Well, lets dissolve it and get another piece. Wait, its rare/charmed...then lets repair it for free tribute. No big deal". Now its like "Darn, my gear is broken. Its devs fault!".

    I agree with some of the points pointed in other topic, but still its mainly "Fix the community, you'll fix the game" for me, not otherwise. You have same chances like paying player, but he actually pays the game for you. Do you still need to envy him then? Of course you do!

  10. #10
    Dreamlords Moderator Necrullz's Avatar
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    Not read the rest of the comments...probably should, but Danval, do not attack me, do it to my face if you must. You misinterpreted my comment.

    The comment about me not having to repair my gear even once an era was in relation to THE MATCH, not the precautions, it's different, and had you read the comment (and the rest of what everyone was saying in that thread, about gear durability loss due to troops being killed IN THE MATCH, then you would have understood.)

    Any other comment of mine you wish to warp?
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  11. #11
    If you didnt mentioned precautions then you were just telling half true. Or isnt that right? talking about the only killed troops in battle, when the topic is Gear decay, is only saying 1half of it. I would say even more, you did it on purpose, cause you all know precautions killing troops afecting gear decay Is a nonsense. Why cant you just say it clearly? are you one of that exploiters like ET that just go premium and fight in islands, do genocyde and leave game? if you dont support that and the fact that I go PvP, dont loose 1 single troop in fight and still gotta pay 20tribute after the match, Tell me, How cant you support Delra point of view?? maybe beeing a moderator made your view thin.

    and in a personal note, who are you to say "do it in my face" ? after you went to game spreading lies about COO members, and its leader? and, even worse, after that, you only showed up in game like 1time for 20min. Fear ? dont talk to me like a saint. Stand up for your lies first

  12. #12
    Dreamlords Moderator Necrullz's Avatar
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    Once again though, you did not read what a said.

    "Not read the rest of the comments...probably should"

    I did not put my opinion on this matter in the thread, and even said that I've not read the rest, and therefore you CAN NOT in ANY way possibly say I am against Delra's views, because I did not put my opinion down, so stop saying I am against or for things hen you have no clue!!!!

    I went 3 years without being premium or buying any tribute, btw.

    What does being a moderator have to do with that? We, in fact do not get any sort of special bonuses or rewards as such for being mods, contrary to popular belief.

    Fear? Alright then, being busy with college and life somehow translates to fear...that does of course, make sense.

    Won't say anything more though, I'll let the community and my friends support me if they choose, or go against me if they choose.
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  13. #13
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    So many so fierce PvP-ers! :-) Calm down guys, we're still on the same side.

    My point about precautions was made to reduce the costs of PvP-ing, especially in the second half of the era when DG is pretty much deserted for the most part. If you don't want non-premium players to participate in PvP until they pay for the game, fair enough, but don't complain there's only half a dozen of people to fight against... because most people just won't buy it.
    “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”

  14. #14
    @shadow:

    mate, I didnt sayed beeing a mod gave you anything. I did say that, in your position, you come to this thread and say NOTHING about it. you just comed and started picking up on me because I used 1 exemple of things you said once to defend your position.. Can you make sense then and say your answear to the thread?

    and again on a personal note.. Your friends think what they like ofc.. but you know the truth.. actually you didnt even sayed that I was whrong to call you a lier on that.. cause its truth, as the things you said are lies. Atleast you could appologise to COO, an intire CV ( the best CV in DL actually) feels misstrusted by 1moderator.

  15. #15
    Dreamlords Moderator Necrullz's Avatar
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    Look, I don't know how you do it, but you make me want to argue, which I do not want to do, so sorry for anyone annoyed by the waste of space we're having with this arguement

    But, anyone who has fought both me, and COO, and can make a comparison can tell that COO is using a second-rate version of MY strategies and tactics, and will know I am telling the truth.

    Besides, who wouldn't have done the exact same thing in my position? If someone made condescending remarks about you, then you would have done what I would have done, and defended yourself, I mean really, how can you even find fault in that?

    On the topic though, I think precautions should not give durability loss, but that during a match if you lose units of your own fault, then it should cost your durability, otherwise then you are just promoting spamming by allowing players to spam and have tons of their units killed with NO penalty.

    Also, just cause COO is on the top spot at the moment does NOT equal it being the best CV, that really is nonsensical, I agree, COO is a good start-up CV, but being active for a bit sure as hell doesn't mean you're the best, so stop bigging yourself up and trying to belittle others. It's just plain rude and offensive.

    PS: In regards to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by danval34 View Post
    Go PvP brandt on islands.. He comes defending, makes genocide.. enters game.. leaves. Reapets again.. untill he got me to 0 gear. then fights and still looses cause he lacks skill but then again, I had lost over 50tribute.
    who can support this?
    So UMMM, why not use you're head? Take your equips off/Put on slightly worse equips/Don't fight him, since fighting has costs, as it should and YOU are the one who's choice it was to attack his land, and therefore should not complain about any penalties you receive for attacking his land, just think, maybe his way of shoving you off his lands is by pestering you and making you lose equips, since it will make you not want to pvp, it's clearly been effective, so KUDOS to Brandt, as here you are complaining incessantly about it.
    Last edited by Necrullz; 25-06-2011 at 23:28.
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  16. #16
    Master of Orion delra's Avatar
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    but that during a match if you lose units of your own fault, then it should cost your durability, otherwise then you are just promoting spamming by allowing players to spam and have tons of their units killed with NO penalty.
    So you are asking devs to enable gear decay for premium players instead of lowering/capping it for non-prems?

    KUDOS to Brandt
    That'd be in order if he won in the end. :-)
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  17. #17
    Dreamlords Moderator prophious's Avatar

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    Shadow, Danval.... this is enough... no more arguing... please if you must use the PM system... keep it out of the forum

    shadow... you know as a mod you are to keep the peace .... so try not to start fires... or keep them going

    i will only say this once... if i see flaming and/or arguing in this thread again i will close it
    I'm about the content, new content is always good, stay with the same stuff for years I might not stay around
    But Dreamlords is one of the exceptions, I've been playing since August 2008, even tho it repeats from time to time...
    i find myself playing it mostly all day, and now being a Mod makes it even harder to leave

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  18. #18
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    Tbh i just skim most of the posts but i can say some thing i experienced as non premium player as i started dreamlords.

    1.Keeks i somehow right about the more units= higher chance of precaustions.And about keeping low amount of squad units ( thats what i do too). You dont need a hughe army if u cant retreat a almost dead unit to castles then its almost your fault. Sure you will loose a unit here and there but if you are doing it right they shouldn't be a problem at all.

    2.I dont like these compares about non-prem / prem players all time. They payed for it so they get a littel extra end of discussion.If you have an activ CV there should be no problem getting the same gear again ( with or without charms doenst matter really in the end). Althout if you get some experience you dont need much gear to win pvp. I lost agianst ppl who havent high lv equipment at all just some few items...

    3.About the "ET exploits" i never heard anyone complaining when i went online in client about that issue. When you know it is happening just take screens with time stamp ( so we can see that they give up after genocid and fight again) and report them....


    i bet i did some speeling mistakes here and there...just ignore them i just came from night shift .

    regards kini

  19. #19
    Corporal

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    ET players keep using this Genocyde for damaging my gear instead of an actual purpose of killing units( as atm its of no use, ammount of recruits is much bigger). So this is clearly an exploit that Devs are giving for premiums to fight non prem.. and win over time.. Dont think thats the main porpuse of those precautions is it? if its not.. please remove it.

  20. #20
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaaj View Post
    ET players keep using this Genocyde for damaging my gear instead of an actual purpose of killing units( as atm its of no use, ammount of recruits is much bigger). So this is clearly an exploit that Devs are giving for premiums to fight non prem.. and win over time.. Dont think thats the main porpuse of those precautions is it? if its not.. please remove it.
    As already stated above, the number of recruits directly affects the number of units affected by Genocide. So Precaution is not to blame, recruit system is. IF you want to prevent this, just dont have more recruits then you need.

    Also, only premiums can have genocide? Not really, everyone can use it. But premiums already paid for their repairs. You can either do the same, or just take it as it is. So please, stop giving out points like "They payed for it, and I want it for free". Either pay for it too, or live with it.

    And tbh, genocide is used only by players who dont know how to fight, so they just quit after using that...otherwise, its useless precaution, considering its prize. And once again, this is flaw of recruit system, which is being already fixed.

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