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Thread: MMU Submod: 1356 Start Date

  1. #1
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    MMU Submod: 1356 Start Date

    The 1356 Start Date Submod




    Download v1.1
    Extract the contents to your /mod folder and enjoy!


    About this Submod
    This is a submod for Magna Mundi Ultimate 1.26 (not an official release, but with permission of Ubik). As you can guess from the title, it sets the start date back to 1356. It is a "beta" version, not perfectly historically accurate and not perfectly polished. Basically, I wrote it as a trial run for a proper 1356 mod which I plan to do for Magna Mundi the game. However, this "beta" submod is already functional and quite a lot of fun, in my opinion. Pick your favourite nation and see how it fares in this time period. You should also try out one of the Chinese nations sometime to see my biggest original contribution, an event chain for the Red Turban Rebellion (see post below).


    Credit Where Credit Is Due
    Since this is a submod for Magna Mundi, my first thanks go to Ubik and his team for their outstanding work. I only added a little dabbling of my own on top of what they have already done. I also have to give a lot of credit to Gigau and his team, the creators of the wonderful MEIOU mod. The idea of using January 10th, 1356 (the date of the Golden Bull) as a starting date was inspired by MEIOU. Moreover, Gigau graciously allowed me to use data from the country files of his mod for the starting rulers, so I did not have to do all the research from scratch (except for starting rulers and some slider positions, I did not use any data from MEIOU). Last but not least, I thank CJL78 for letting me use material from his excellent Firenze Submod.


    The World in 1356
    - Karel IV. von Luxemburg, ruler of Bohemia, is Holy Roman Emperor. The rise of the Habsburgs has not yet begun. Bavaria owns Tirol and Trent. The Wittelsbach dynasty also rules in Brandenburg, the Palatinate, Hainaut and Holland.
    - Naples is an independent nation (not in a PU under Aragon) and leads a PU with Provence.
    - Hungary and Lithuania are independent nations, not in a PU under Austria or Poland, respectively. I made Croatia a separate nation in a PU under Hungary.
    - Norway and Sweden are independent from Denmark, not in a PU or a PU war.
    - In Russia, Novgorod is the biggest power, not Muscovy. It is a very interesting choice for a human player. If both nations are AI, Muscovy will eventually become dominant due to its military supremacy, as it did in actual history.
    - The Byzantine-Ottoman wars are in full swing. The Byzantine Empire owns Thrace, Edirne and Salonica. In the hands of a human player, it still has a fighting chance against the onslaught of the Turk. Bulgaria and Serbia, both medium-sized nations, are other interesting choices to play in the Balkans.
    - In Persia, the Jalayirids, the Muzaffarids, the Kartids, the Sarbadars and the Timurids fight for the succession of the Ilkhanate. An interesting assortment of new nations there!
    - In China, Han Chinese "Red Turban" rebels are fighting to overthrow the Mongol Yuan dynasty (see post below).


    Most Important Changes in Version 1.0
    - Since this is supposed to be more of a "sandbox" game than regular MMU, all nations start with only two pre-selected national ideas, not with three. I chose the two pre-selected ideas which I consider the most historically essential for a country. You can pick your third national idea around 1420, the fourth, fifth etc. at the usual MMU times.
    - I did not re-write the entire tech trees to extend them backwards (remember, this is only a "beta" submod). Instead, I lowered the starting tech levels for all nations. Europeans now start at level 2, Chinese nations at level 4, and so on. Everything else regarding tech remains the same (including the research penalties for the non-European nations, of course).
    - The Ottomans start as a Despotic Monarchy. They will become an Administrative Monarchy once they take Constantinople and proclaim Kayzer-i-Rum. This simulates the superb administrative capabilities of the Ottomans after the conquest of Constantinople (remember, the Ottomans start as an Administrative Monarchy in the normal 1453 game).
    - Two new Casus Belli have been added: a "Red Turban Rebellion" CB for the various Chinese nations, and an "Ilkhanate Succession War" CB for the nations in Persia.


    Changes in Version 1.01
    - Gotland now starts as a province of Sweden. Denmark also gets a core on the island to encourage the historical conflict.
    - In an attempt to save them from instant collapse, the Golden Horde now starts the game allied with Kazan, Nogai and the Uzbeks.
    - Fixed some cores for Muscovy, Lithuania and the Golden Horde.
    - Fixed the "Yuan Dynasty Victorious" event (1356022) so that it fires only once, instead of firing continuously.


    Changes in Version 1.1
    (changes marked with * are taken from CJL78's Firenze Submod)

    The Christianisation of Lithuania:
    - True to history, Lithuania now starts as a pagan nation in 1356. After some time (before 1400 in most games), it will get an event ("The Christianisation of Lithuania") which gives the option of becoming Catholic, becoming Orthodox or (very rarely chosen by the AI) staying pagan.
    - If Lithuania becomes Orthodox, and if Russia exists and is a monarchy, there is the possibility of a Russian-Lithuanian Commonwealth forming.
    - More details here.

    The Kalmar Union:
    - If a Scandinavian nation under the AI gets a regency or a ruler with weak legitimacy, there is a chance of a Kalmar Union forming.
    - More details here.

    Greeks Colonise Asia Minor:
    - If Asia Minor comes firmly under Greek rule again, the culture of coastal provinces in the Turkey region will change to Greek.
    - More details here.

    Hundred Years' War (still very crude):
    - England starts the game at war with France and its vassals.
    - Navarra starts the game at war with France and its vassals, and owning Normandy (but without cores on Normandy).
    - Edward the Black Prince, the English heir, has his stats slightly buffed. He is also a (very capable) general at game start.
    - England starts strongly decentralized (+5 instead of +2).
    - England gets an "English Longbowmen" modifier until 1425, giving a bonus to morale and leader shock.
    - England starts with the Naval Fighting Instruction NI instead of Grand Navy.

    Tolerance and tolerance-related NIs:
    - Humanist Tolerance or Ecumenism cannot be picked by states with Divine Supremacy and vice versa.*
    - Ecumenism cannot be picked by states with Unam Sanctam.*
    - Ecumenism can be picked with Humanist Tolerance or LEF as a prerequisite.
    - Humanist Tolerance and Ecumenism give negative effects to missionaries per year, cost, and success chance.*
    - Humanist Tolerance's tolerance of heathens increased from 2.00 to 3.00.*
    - Tolerance's effects on missionary success chance increased by 1000% (10x). This effect was negligible before. This makes tolerated religions very difficult if not impossible to convert, depending on country.*
    - Merchant Republics now receive -1 missionaries/year. (Without certain religious decisions, DS and/or very traditional sliders, merchant republics will not get missionaries)*

    Casus Belli:
    - New "Spice Trade War" mutual CB for nations controlling Constantinople, Alexandria, and Cairo until 1600. Primarily designed for the Ottomans and the Mamluks, the CB gives lower cost and infamy for taking provinces in Turkey and the Muslim Mediterranean.*
    - The Holy War of Expansion CB is now available to any Muslim/Christian neighbours anywhere in Europe, North Africa or the Levant (not Georgia or Ethiopia). However, provinces can still only be taken for cheap infamy in Iberia, the Balkans and Russia as in standard MMU.*

    Nation-forming decisions:
    - Because Austria in 1356 is quite different from the typical Habsburg-Austria game in 1453, Austria can now form Germany, like any other nation with one of the German cultures as its primary culture (not Dutch!).
    - The Mughal Empire can now be formed by any Altaic, Turkic or Persian nation which meets the requirements - even the Timurids. However, you must not be a Major Power or a Great Power already. Only "rising nations" are allowed to proclaim themselves as the Mughal Empire.
    - Prerequisites for the "Restore the Byzantine Empire" decision have been changed slightly, and it now gives fewer cores. The decision to "Initiate a Byzantine Resurgence" gives fewer cores as well.

    Changes to provinces, cores, capitals etc.:
    - Franken now starts as a province of Bohemia, not of the Palatinate. The Palatinate still gets a core, though, to encourage historical development.
    - The provinces of Kursk and Poltava now belong to the Golden Horde at game start, not to Lithuania.
    - Iceland is now under the rule of Norway, not Denmark.
    - The Ottomans now start with a core on Thrace.
    - The Livonian Order now starts with a core on Riga (LIV tends to suicidally DOW Riga without a CB anyway, historical justification Riga and the Order were part of a broader Livonian Confederation).*
    - Lithuania now starts with cores on Smolensk and Podolia, as these were historically contested regions during the game's starting period.
    - The Golden Horde now starts with cores on Azow and Kaffa.
    - Brittany: Capital moved to Rennes (Armor).*
    - Georgia: Capital moved to T'blisi (changed to Imereti in MMP in order to prevent GEO's early annexation, but this leads to weirder outcomes in MMU).*

    Changes to starting NIs and starting rulers:
    - The Ottomans start with Military Drill instead of National Conscripts.*
    - Delhi starts with Humanist Tolerance instead of Grand Army, and with -1 Innovative/Narrowminded.
    - Bohemia starts with Divine Supremacy instead of Ecumenism.
    - Lithuania starts with Humanist Tolerance instead of Ecumenism.
    - Golden Horde starts with Battlefield Commisions instead of Grand Army.
    - England starts with Naval Fighting Instruction instead of Grand Navy.
    - Slight changes made to the stats of the starting rulers of Bohemia, Austria, Poland and the Golden Horde, and the starting heir of England (Edward the Black Prince).

    Fixes:
    - Fixed a missing localisation error with the "Red Turban Rebellion" modifier for the Yuan.
    - Fixed the "The $COUNTRY$ Dynasty" event (1356014) so that it fires only once, instead of firing continuously.
    - Fixed a bug that prevented Burgundy from petitioning to become a kingdom.
    - Fixed a bug that prevented a restored Byzantine Empire (after Ottoman conquest) from making Constantinople Greek and Orthodox again.
    - Jewish settlement bug fixed: expelled Jews can now resettle in other countries.*
    - The Byzantine Empire is no longer able to take the "Restore the Byzantine Empire" decision.
    - The Yuan can no longer take the "Unite the Hordes" decision or form Qing.
    - Religion in Lappland and Kola changed from Tengriist to Animist.
    - Citysize in Österbotten changed to 1000 to prevent it from running out of population.
    - Macau port fix included.*
    Last edited by Laskaris; 09-08-2013 at 20:07. Reason: Had to upload the mod file again

  2. #2
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    So far, my biggest original contribution to the submod is...





    I wrote this event chain from scratch to portray the uprising of the so-called Red Turban Rebels in China against the Mongol Yuan dynasty. It seems to work quite well and, if everything is left to the AI, produces historical results, meaning that the Yuan are expelled from China and one of the Chinese rebel factions eventually founds a new imperial dynasty. In several "hands off" test games of mine, the eventual winner was always a different Chinese faction and the developments leading there were always quite different as well, so there seems to be a lot of replay value here.

    There are six different rebel factions fighting against the Yuan: the Ming (who historically founded the next dynasty), the Song, the Dahan, the Tianwan, the Fang, and the Xian (I used The Cambridge History of China, Vol. 7: The Ming Dynasty, 1368-1644, Part 1 for research). There is a new Casus Belli, the "Red Turban Rebellion", which allows the Chinese rebels to make war on the Yuan (and vice versa), and also on each other - the leaders of different Red Turban factions were frequently at odds!

    I also added a new rebel type, the "Red Turban Rebels", who can rise up in Chinese provinces controlled by the Yuan. If they manage to take control of a province, that province will defect to a neighbouring Red Turban rebel faction after an average of 12 months. The Yuan have a lot to do to try and keep this wildfire under control (the AI hasn't got a chance, but a human player might be successful).

    If the Yuan are driven out of China and back to their northern steppes, they will lose all cores on China and transform to the Mongol Khanate. Depending on their government tech level at the time, they will go back to being horse nomads (the usual outcome, tech level below 9), an oligarchic monarchy (tech level 9 to 17) or a modern form of government (tech level 18 and above).

    Once the Yuan are driven out, the Red Turban factions will fight among themselves for dominance over China. If a faction manages to take Beijing (Shuntian), Nanjing (Nan Zhili) and 13 other provinces, it can claim the Mandate of Heaven and found a new imperial dynasty. If that faction is under the AI, other Chinese factions under the AI will then merge with it (to produce a unified China). If you, the player, found a new imperial dynasty, you have to do all the work yourself by conquering the remaining Red Turban factions - but by that point, it should not be too difficult.

    I wrote several AI-only events to keep the Yuan and the various Red Turban factions at almost constant war with each other. The result is a situation that is always in flux, until a new imperial dynasty finally emerges. It is a fairly good representation of what happened during the period in China, I think.

    Once a new imperial dynasty is established, it chooses a capital (Beijing or Nanjing). It also chooses between two modes of government, a "pragmatic" one using the help of the traditional Confucian scholar-official elite, are a "hardline" approach which sees the Red Turban Rebellion carried through to the end, making Mahayana Buddhism the state religion and building a new social order at the expense of plunging the country into a long period of chaos.

    There is also a "Yuan Dynasty Victorious" event if the Yuan manage to annex, vassalise or ally all of the rebel factions. This is practically impossible to achieve for the AI, but a skillful human player should be able to do it.

    Have fun, and let me know if everything is working as it is supposed to.
    Last edited by Laskaris; 06-02-2012 at 08:15.

  3. #3
    Must.... download... as... soon... as... I... get... back... to... home... PC.

    *drools*

  4. #4
    Sanctioned OT Hall Monitor Thistletooth's Avatar
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    Bravo! This is an amazing project. I'd love to see these starting dates get pushed further and further back.

  5. #5
    This is awesome! A really great idea!

    How about a cooperation with CJL78 (The Firenze SubMod) to create a Super-Submod?
    This would be an epic project and save you a lot of work.

  6. #6

  7. #7
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    Looks great! Habsburgs in their proper place, good chunk of Asia in turmoil...

    I'm only afraid about the technology, if the progress is so painfully slow in the early-game, it might be pretty boring and players may tend to neglect it, since the benefits would be very long-term ones. 1399 start was dull when it came to technology, so 1356 might yet aggravate that problem.

    But there's no place for pesimism now, let's play!

  8. #8
    Lt. General Sikker's Avatar
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    Interesting. I will play as Muscowy first.
    However a little thing: Gotland. In 1356 it was not in the hands of The Teutonic order. It was kind of Swedish (as I understand it, it had an independent government - so perhaps they were more like vassals of Sweden?).
    I am not an expert at all, so I am referring to the always trustworthy wikipedia (Swedish and English versions as they had the most info):
    1285: the Swedish king made an agreement with Gotland that it was now a part of Sweden. However no real power over the island was ever established.
    1313: Sweden invades Gotland in an attempt to make the island pay higher taxes. The Swedes were defeated by a peasant army.
    1361: Denmark invades, and takes the island.
    1394: Pirates establishes themselves on the island and apparently becomes defacto rulers (lets say that rebels take the island and makes it independent).
    1398: TO takes the island to control trade in Baltic.
    1408: Denmark buys Gotland from TO

    Maybe too much info. But now you know. Anyway, considering the above info, I would call Gotland a vassal under Sweden in game terms (probably with a low starting relationship score).
    Denmark has a core in the game. That is probably not a bad idea if you want to encourage historical development.


    EDIT: OK, having looked at the map of Scandinavia more thoroughly (and checked dates of historical changes) there are a few other things: The provinces of Skåne and Halland were on Swedish hands at this time. Denmark took them back in 1360 (they were under Swedish rule since around 1332). Of course, since it is such a short period one can easily justify letting it be Danish in order to ensure historical development.
    Lappland were probably Norwegian at the time - but ownership weren't really fully established until later. Again, in order to establish historical development letting it be Swedish might not be all silly. However Lappland should probably not be a fully developed province.
    As such the issue with Gotland remains the most important.
    Last edited by Sikker; 20-05-2011 at 11:28.
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  9. #9
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by hermi View Post
    How about a cooperation with CJL78 (The Firenze SubMod) to create a Super-Submod?
    This would be an epic project and save you a lot of work.
    Yes, I was thinking about contacting CJL78 myself. I am working on some little improvements that apply not only to the 1356 start, but to any game start (such as an improved version of the Russian decision to move the capital to St. Petersburg). They might be of interest for him, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by myLAAN View Post
    I'm only afraid about the technology, if the progress is so painfully slow in the early-game, it might be pretty boring and players may tend to neglect it, since the benefits would be very long-term ones. 1399 start was dull when it came to technology, so 1356 might yet aggravate that problem.
    I agree that this is a downside. I tried rewriting the trech trees so that research could start properly from 1356 onwards, but I ran into crash-to-desktop problems without knowing why, exactly. So instead, I am using the current, imperfect system where tech trees remain as they are in MMU and nations simply don't do a lot of research early in the game. On the plus side, there is so much to do early on if you play in an exciting place like China during the Red Turban Rebellion that you will not have much time to think about research, anyway...

    If someone who is a better modder than me wants to give me a hand in coming up with some proper new tech trees, that would of course be welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Interesting. I will play as Muscowy first.
    Muscovy should not be too different from the normal 1453 start. Novgorod is bigger, Ryazan is a vassal of the Golden Horde and Lithuania is independent rather than in a PU with Poland. But by and large, it should be a typical Muscovy => Russia game. (It's only when your colonists reach the Pacific that you will notice that China is probably ruled by a different dynasty than the Ming!)

    However a little thing: Gotland. In 1356 it was not in the hands of The Teutonic order. It was kind of Swedish (as I understand it, it had an independent government - so perhaps they were more like vassals of Sweden?)
    Thank you for the information. As I said, this version is not perfectly historically accurate yet. Some areas are well-represented, like China, Persia or the Balkans. Others, like France or India, still need a lot of work.

    All input like the one you just gave will go on my "to do" list, and it will be taken into account for future versions.

  10. #10
    Lt. General Sikker's Avatar
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    I do not know if this is intended but Muscowy does not start with cores on Vyazma and Smolensk. Similarly Lithuania does not start with a core on Bryansk, Chernigov, and Volhynia.
    GH has no core on Zaporizhia - actually no one does.
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  11. #11
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    I do not know if this is intended but Muscowy does not start with cores on Vyazma and Smolensk. Similarly Lithuania does not start with a core on Bryansk, Chernigov, and Volhynia.
    GH has no core on Zaporizhia - actually no one does.
    Grrr, I thought I had taken care of all the cores in Russia.

    This also goes on the "to do" list, thanks.

  12. #12
    Major Jlop985's Avatar
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    Great job, but you may have overlooked that Lithuania was pagan until 1385.
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  13. #13
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlop985 View Post
    Great job, but you may have overlooked that Lithuania was pagan until 1385.
    Yes, for the time being, Lithuania starts Catholic. This is ahistorical, but not as badly as one might think (while the official conversion came later, negotiations with the Pope had already been started before 1356, as far as I know).

    For future versions, I plan to make Lithuania pagan and give it the option of converting to Catholicism (the historical option, which the AI will usually take) or to Orthodox Christianity (a plausible alternative, which might also have happened). This will have ramifications for all the surrounding states (the Teutonic Order, Poland, the Russian states) and make the region very interesting indeed.

    Another religious event I plan to include in future versions is the Western Schism (which historically lasted from 1378 to 1417).

  14. #14
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    Without knowing how often this occurs, it appears that Golden Horde gets hammered. Lithuania attacks, then Genoa, then Georgia (and me - since I am Muscowy). It seems GH needs some sort of strengthening.
    Scandinavians unite!

  15. #15
    You need to do a small fix on the "Yuan Dynasty Victorious" event (1356022), as it currently will fire around 4 times ( ) if you vassalise the last rebel country in the first couple of days in the month. Looking at the code it SEEMS good, but I think that flags don't actually clear until the end of the month. EDIT: I think modifiers don't clear, but flags do, see end of post for edit.


    I think a work around for this, would be to make the event also give a flag (say, red_turban_over" or some such, and introduce a NOT = { has_country_flag = red_turban_over } into the event. Otherwise the player will get around 9-12 free stability, and 75-100 prestige.


    Also, it would be great if you could integrate the religions fixes in the SubUltimate submod, if you haven't already. I haven't played long enough yet to see how religion is working in this submod, but in vanilla there'd be vast swaths of non-state religion provinces getting converted within 50 years of start, which was annoyingly a historical. And pointless gameplay wise.


    EDIT: I spoke too soon, the Yuan victorious event just keeps on firing, so yeah you need to add that flag thing in. Or perhaps just adding "has_country_flag = red_turban_yuan" would do it.
    Last edited by Iamwinterborn; 20-05-2011 at 19:10.

  16. #16
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    Without knowing how often this occurs, it appears that Golden Horde gets hammered. Lithuania attacks, then Genoa, then Georgia (and me - since I am Muscowy). It seems GH needs some sort of strengthening.
    Historically, the Golden Horde was much bigger at the time, as far as I know. But I can't make them too big in the game or their already strained administrative efficiency will collapse entirely. So what I will probably do is have the Golden Horde start with alliances with the various Central Asian horde nations. Maybe that will balance things out a bit better.

    I might also take the province Tula away from Ryazan and transfer it back to the Golden Horde, as in regular MMU. Not historically accurate, but perhaps better for balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamwinterborn View Post
    EDIT: I spoke too soon, the Yuan victorious event just keeps on firing, so yeah you need to add that flag thing in. Or perhaps just adding "has_country_flag = red_turban_yuan" would do it.
    Yes, of course that event keeps firing. I forgot to add the flag to stop it. Doh! Silly mistake. It will be corrected in the next version.
    Last edited by Laskaris; 20-05-2011 at 22:26.

  17. #17
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    Version 1.01 released, including some quick fixes based on the feedback I got so far:
    - Gotland now starts as a province of Sweden. Denmark also gets a core on the island to encourage the historical conflict.*
    - In an attempt to save them from instant collapse, the Golden Horde now starts the game allied with Kazan, Nogai and the Uzbeks.
    - Fixed some cores for Muscovy, Lithuania and the Golden Horde.
    - Fixed the "Yuan Dynasty Victorious" event (1356022) so that it fires only once, instead of firing continuously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikker View Post
    EDIT: OK, having looked at the map of Scandinavia more thoroughly (and checked dates of historical changes) there are a few other things: The provinces of Skåne and Halland were on Swedish hands at this time. Denmark took them back in 1360 (they were under Swedish rule since around 1332). Of course, since it is such a short period one can easily justify letting it be Danish in order to ensure historical development.
    Lappland were probably Norwegian at the time - but ownership weren't really fully established until later. Again, in order to establish historical development letting it be Swedish might not be all silly. However Lappland should probably not be a fully developed province.
    As such the issue with Gotland remains the most important.
    Gotland now starts as a Swedish province. I know that they were semi-independent from Sweden at the time and that it would probably be more accurate to have them as a vassal of Sweden, but additional tags slow down the game, and I am reluctant to add a GOT tag just for this.

    I will leave Skåne and Halland with Denmark for the time being, for balance between Denmark and Sweden. I might try giving them to Sweden in a private test run when I have some time, to see how things develop. But my feeling is that it will probably screw up the balance.

    Input about Lappland noted. I will deal with that in a later version.

    Thank you for your feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamwinterborn View Post
    Also, it would be great if you could integrate the religions fixes in the SubUltimate submod, if you haven't already. I haven't played long enough yet to see how religion is working in this submod, but in vanilla there'd be vast swaths of non-state religion provinces getting converted within 50 years of start, which was annoyingly a historical. And pointless gameplay wise.
    I will have a look at this, thanks! Of course, CJL78 would have to agree with this first.
    Last edited by Laskaris; 21-05-2011 at 00:30.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Laskaris View Post
    Yes, of course that event keeps firing. I forgot to add the flag to stop it. Doh! Silly mistake. It will be corrected in the next version.
    I'll be sure to add it in when I get back. (EDIT: Eh, I'll just download the new version I guess. =P )

    On another note, I think Ubik should consider you his heir when i comes to pure EVIL. I started up Yuan, since I didn't want to be Ming, and the other little nations didn't appeal to me. I wondered if I might be able to form Qing later, I'll see, either way this looks to be fun. But when I started...

    Well, this is my experience so far:

    1. Overwhelmed Admin + heavy tech penalties. Okay, expected, I can deal. I'll take an ADM boosting NI as my third NI, might help a bit.

    2. Why the frak am I losing so much money every year, I have.... WTF. WTF... WTF IS THIS. ZERO ANNUAL INCOME? *looks closer at turban modifier* AAARRRRRRGH

    3. Okay, let's kill these bastard... *DoWs Tianem. Or whatever it was called. The green one. *promptly discovers Yuan is outclassed in a 1-1 fight.* And Yuan is currently fighting... 4 countries. This will be the most challenging fight, ever!* *2 months later, the other Turbans pile into the fight* I got lucky. That's the only word for it. I managed to get a couple of good events that let me spawn reinforcements for 1 WE, I used those to save my capital once (It wasn't until the broken event made me look into the files that I realised what a close call THAT was. They took it to 100% broken walled three times!) I managed however, to capture their capitals one by one, though only because Ming let me concede defeat with them.

    4. Final outcome was the brown one on the left vassalised, as well as the red, green, and the blue? one (not Fang). Leaving Fang and Ming.

    5. Years pass, most of the army is disbanded so I don't instantly go bankrupt.

    6. 1368, I DoW Manchu, looking to unite the hordes. I am disappointed when I realise I will not be able to vassalise, so I decide to blitz for the neighboring province to the capital, after taking the capital, so I can isolate the capitol for the next war.) Luckily, my Korean allies help, so my glorious 6k strong army is able to fend off the capital's initial relief force, after the Korean reinforcements, numbering 14k, arrive just in time.

    7. I PANIC. I receive notifications that southern provinces are being besieged. I only have one measly 6k army, I was zoned out and didn't realise the remaining two turban nations were allied with it. I though it was just another couple of hordes that would turn down the call, like in normal games.

    8. I breathe a sign of relief. My vassals are actively defending my lands and taking on the other turban nations. Hey, I'll be able to consolidate the Turbans quicker now! VICTORY IS MINE.

    9. AAAAAAAAAAH! AAIIIIIIIIEEEE! I panic some more. Dali has now DoWd, bringing in Tibet, and a couple more nations.

    10. I finally can bring my army down from the north, as I have successfully captured the second province, and the Koreans are playing tag with the Manchu stacks. I can't peace out yet, since Manchu is leader, and if I can just take out the two allies, I have gained power over the turbans.

    11. *cries* The Dali are going through my southern provinces like a laser through butter. Tibet is assaulting my northern provinces. Manchu has somehow defeated the Korean stacks, with a starting odds of 3k to 14k. And one of my vassal's capitals has fallen to Fang.

    12. I peace out with Dali, they end up taking 2-3 provinces in my south west. =(

    13. After an arduous cat and mouse game, I finally get the WSs with Ming and Fang to vassalize each of them, then take Ninguan from Manchu.

    14. I now have positive income at the end of the year. But I have 5% inflation after a decade. I still have crappy AE. I'm still almost the worst you can be when it comes to tech. And I have an army that's smaller than every single one of my allies.


    I didn't even mention the turban rebels spawning at one point all over my empire.

    Yup. Great mod Laskaris. =P

  19. #19
    Scholar Laskaris's Avatar
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    It sounds like you had a real fight on your hands, Iamwinterborn. I think you did very well, considering that Yuan is without a doubt the most unplayable nation in 1356. The others are not nearly as evil!

    Realistically speaking, the Yuan dynasty had no chance to stay in power by 1356. They were an alien regime and never really accepted by the Chinese. They had vast military expenditures and were unable to finance them with the meager taxes they were able to collect. They faced some very brilliant and well-organised Han Chinese rebel leaders. With the means and the institutions they had, and so many enemies, they simply could not keep this vast empire under control.

    So, the disintegration you are experiencing is very much historically accurate. I think a very skilled player should be able to hold the Yuan empire together. The AI doesn't have a chance, and it shouldn't.

    The "Red Turban Rebellion" modifier the Yuan get is basically a copy, in terms of effects, of "Strong Noble Opposition". I don't think it is exaggerated, but I might tone it down somewhat in future versions in order to make things a bit more manageable.

    The tech penalties of the Yuan are not so bad. Actually, they are better than the tech penalties of the Chinese factions.

    You should not be able to "unite the hordes" or form Qing with Yuan. Thanks for making me aware of that! *grins* Think of Yuan as another, earlier form of the Qing dynasty, already formed. (Actually, I took the colour and the tech penalties from Qing)

    You should try out the Chinese factions as well sometime. The Red Turban leaders all have quite interesting biographies, and it's fun to engage in alternate history speculation about how China might have turned out under them:

    - Ming: Zhu Yuanzhang is the most famous of them all, because he eventually became the first Ming emperor. He was a poor peasant by birth, but he made good use of advisors and of the established elites of scholar-officials whenever he conquered a new city, hence the Bureaucracy national idea.
    - Song: The supporters of Han Liner claimed that he was a descendant of the Song dynasty, who had ruled China before the Yuan. He was eventually assassinated by Zhu Yuanzhang.
    - Tianwan: Xú Shòuhui was a cloth merchant by profession, who became a rebel leader and was proclaimed emperor of the Tianwan ("Heaven Consummated") dynasty. He was assassinated by his former ally, Chen Youliang.
    - Dahan: Chen Youliang came from a family of fishermen and worked as a district official before becoming a rebel leader. By all accounts, he was a ruthless and ambitious man, a brilliant military leader and probably the most dangerous rival of the eventual Ming emperor Zhu Yuanzhang. He proclaimed himself emperor of the Dahan ("great Han") dynasty. He was killed in battle with Zhu Yuanzhang's forces in 1363.
    - Fang: Fang Kuo-Chen was not really a follower of the Red Turban sect, but a bandit leader, smuggler and pirate who carved out a fiefdom of his own in southeastern China during the rebellion. His fleet is said to have been the biggest in China at the time, much bigger than that of the Yuan government. He eventually joined Ming, was given titles and income by the new emperor, and died of natural causes in 1374.
    - Xian: Ming Yu-chen formed an independent Red Turban "kingdom" in Sichuan in the interior of China, called Xian. He had a learned Confucian scholar-official named Liu Chen as his counselor, who seems to have guided the government in an extremely conservative, even antique spirit. Ming Yu-chen died of an illness in 1366. The Xian "kingdom" was conquered by Ming foces in 1371.
    Last edited by Laskaris; 21-05-2011 at 00:24.

  20. #20
    Colonel james24eagle's Avatar
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    Your submod looks interesting! Good luck on it!

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