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Thread: Protectorates

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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Protectorates

    Surely to establish a protectorate over a state would lead them to become a satellite state instead of a colony...

    I personally think there should be a War goal ''Establish a protectorate'' should turn uncivs into satellite states and maybe a new war goal to turn them into colonial provinces.

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    Apprentice Modder User29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberstbrooksy View Post
    Surely to establish a protectorate over a state would lead them to become a satellite state instead of a colony...

    I personally think there should be a War goal ''Establish a protectorate'' should turn uncivs into satellite states and maybe a new war goal to turn them into colonial provinces.
    you realize that satellite states in this game basically mean broken diplomatic ability right? They are forcibly allied to their master and... that's all you get. They aren't even permanetly apart of your sphere. and if they end up in your enemies sphere just before war they wont even join you in the conflict. they stay neutral. Satellites are worthless unfortunately... Unless you're like me who likes to see pretty borders ^_^
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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I am very very familiar with the broken vassal system and such.

    But it would be a nice addition for when it actually gets fixed.

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    The wargoal name should be changed imo, and then establish protectorate should be something about creating a satellite out of an unciv. Satellites should then be fixed so that they can't be sphered by other powers.

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    First Lieutenant frissdassuboote's Avatar
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    I can see your point but personally I like it. Satalites are pretty much useless, take Wachallia and Moldovia for example. They don't really contribute much to you except making the Turkish-Russian border smaller. Like Russia for example you could go on a rampage and you would be enclosed from the world by satalittes. But even if they don't join the sphere leader get MA in their provinces.
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    Field Marshal Isaios's Avatar
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    It's a bit unfortunate. Personally I find satellites to be useful for borders and control, but this is only partially useful . There could certainly be a LOT more done with the satellite bit, but the one thing that's really bothersome that they don't have, is permanent inclusion in SoI. Wonder if that's moddable?

    (Though making satellites of most of the Austrian turf after annexing Austria as Germany, helps with the literacy quite a lot.)
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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frissdassuboote View Post
    I can see your point but personally I like it. Satalites are pretty much useless, take Wachallia and Moldovia for example. They don't really contribute much to you except making the Turkish-Russian border smaller. Like Russia for example you could go on a rampage and you would be enclosed from the world by satalittes. But even if they don't join the sphere leader get MA in their provinces.
    Note for Life: RATHER ANNEX THEN PUPPET. (its the other way around in hoi3)
    Well I like the safe market increase also the ally that will always answer the call and never white peace or add stupid wargoals.

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    Captain Rhyus's Avatar
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    Do you think that satellites should always be part of their masters sphere

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaios View Post
    but the one thing that's really bothersome that they don't have, is permanent inclusion in SoI.
    In one game I had Spain in my SOI and also 100 points of influence with them. Before that point, France tried pretty hard to remove them from my sphere, but afterwards the AI completely gave it up. It might be conincidental, but maybe it always works or at least most of the time.

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    Manos, the Hands of Fate Freebot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaios View Post
    It's a bit unfortunate. Personally I find satellites to be useful for borders and control, but this is only partially useful . There could certainly be a LOT more done with the satellite bit, but the one thing that's really bothersome that they don't have, is permanent inclusion in SoI. Wonder if that's moddable?

    (Though making satellites of most of the Austrian turf after annexing Austria as Germany, helps with the literacy quite a lot.)
    It probably works this way so German Unification can happen. Hannover starts as a satellite of GB and Holstein is a satellite of Denmark. Denmark isn't much trouble at all but fighting GB to unify Germany would be both a pain and ahistorical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmokAchim View Post
    In one game I had Spain in my SOI and also 100 points of influence with them. Before that point, France tried pretty hard to remove them from my sphere, but afterwards the AI completely gave it up. It might be conincidental, but maybe it always works or at least most of the time.
    Yes, that's true. But my point was that you shouldn't HAVE to expend influence on a SATELLITE. It's like a semi-autonomous part of your nation, so they should be as close in trade as they are in war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freebot View Post
    It probably works this way so German Unification can happen. Hannover starts as a satellite of GB and Holstein is a satellite of Denmark. Denmark isn't much trouble at all but fighting GB to unify Germany would be both a pain and ahistorical.
    Except that Hannover is removed from GB with the ascent of Queen Victoria, and Schleswig could easily be freed with a release puppet wargoal (if the AI used those that is).
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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyus View Post
    Do you think that satellites should always be part of their masters sphere
    No, I think there should be a way for another country to remove a satellite state from being one, until this event however it should remain with in its sphere.

    I am not too sure how it could be worked out for non GP states that have sats.

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    Forum's #1 Irishman Demi Moderator RedRalphWiggum's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberstbrooksy View Post
    No, I think there should be a way for another country to remove a satellite state from being one, until this event however it should remain with in its sphere.
    There is! It's the 'release satellite' wargoal.

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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRalphWiggum View Post
    There is! It's the 'release satellite' wargoal.
    I was meaning in a more diplomatic sense rather than waging war.

    Maybe a way to increase revolution or a reactionary party so that when it gets elected it declares full independence.

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    Field Marshal Isaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberstbrooksy View Post
    I was meaning in a more diplomatic sense rather than waging war.

    Maybe a way to increase revolution or a reactionary party so that when it gets elected it declares full independence.
    Since satellites declare independence after a successful revolution, just the ability to forment such would do the trick.
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    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaios View Post
    Since satellites declare independence after a successful revolution, just the ability to forment such would do the trick.
    or that, the ability to ''support/fund/arm'' rebels in this game would be a massive boost. Also rthe introduction of ''regional'' and ''nationalist'' parties as well.

  17. #17
    Manos, the Hands of Fate Freebot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaios View Post
    Yes, that's true. But my point was that you shouldn't HAVE to expend influence on a SATELLITE. It's like a semi-autonomous part of your nation, so they should be as close in trade as they are in war.



    Except that Hannover is removed from GB with the ascent of Queen Victoria, and Schleswig could easily be freed with a release puppet wargoal (if the AI used those that is).
    I've had games where Hannover stayed as satellite of GB.
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  18. #18
    Lt. General tului's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRalphWiggum View Post
    There is! It's the 'release satellite' wargoal.
    Isnt it called release puppet?

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    Field Marshal Isaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebot View Post
    I've had games where Hannover stayed as satellite of GB.
    Same here, but the event is there nonetheless. And had Hannover stayed in personal union with the english crown (by there being a male heir) chances are good that things would have progressed differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by tului View Post
    Isnt it called release puppet?
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  20. #20
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    No real good honestly. At best, all satellites serve to do is act as a buffer state between you and whomever hates your guts, and occasionally provide a few troops. Though, you really have to be careful in your choice of satellites. I formed the SGF early on in my Austria game, and ended up having it become a great power, requiring me to spend infamy (which could've been spent on Prussia instead) cutting it down to size to get it out of the GP spot.

    Honestly, you're better off simply getting other nations to release countries. Less infamy, more troops, and somebody to trade with you, and they also will actually build an army instead of simply sitting around be a piece of different colored useless land all game.

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