Hearts of Iron 3 DLC 'Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung' Developer Diary #4

[jju_57]

I know you can't fix things so I was sort of asking to see if there was a parameter or anything that PI opened up to allow for any of these changes. I know you guys are very smart and try to think about all the possibilities. I was just seeing if maybe something might have been missed. If not I hope for FTM they do something. What good is a resistance movement if England is speaking German.

[StephenT]

The biggest problem the Germans would have faced in Sealion historically wasn't landing the troops: it was keeping them supplied afterwards. The initial landing would have the benefit of surprise; but after that, British torpedo boats and destroyers and submarines and aircraft would have been patrolling the seas off the beachhead sinking every transport that tried to get through. After a couple of weeks the starving German troops would probably have been forced to surrender. Trouble is, it doesn't work that way in HoI3 because disrupting a supply convoy is really hard. The game tries to use the same mechanics to represent U-boats hunting convoys in the vastness of the entire Atlantic Ocean, and MTBs sinking transport barges that are heading to a specific, known place in coastal waters at fixed times.

How to fix it? Well, a couple of suggestions, based on the idea that this DLC doesn't need to be balanced for all nations :

1. You're already using modifiers to the AI's convoy defence chances. Why not give Britain a specific triggered modifer that gives them a huge bonus to their convoy attack efficiency, triggered only if Axis units occupy at least one but less than all provinces in the British Isles?

2. Alternatively, how about creating a special AI-only "coastal defence" unit to represent MTBs, coastal defence ships, and even minefields? It would be similar to a submarine in that it would be very good against convoys, low visibility against enemy detection, but not especially effective against surface ships - and give it a very short range, basically only into the sea zone adjacent to the port it was based in. Give the UK and perhaps a few other countries a bunch of them at the start of the game.

[RazakelApollyon]

ETA for release?

^

I'm sure we're all thinking the same thing.

[Aragos]

We can't change the way the combat are working but this is the point of the whole "the allies get bonus" system you can see in the screenshots. Along those bonuses for your ennemies, you have several new tech (check the tech screen) such as decoys and coating that makes the submarine more efficient on defense and attack. Abstractly representing all those things you are talking about.

The way the system is designed:
- 1939-1940 (late): happy time (even a few submarines sink hundreds of convoys)
- 1941: escalation of defense from the Allies, you start to lose subs
- 1942-1944 (depending on how many leadership points you invest into submarines): some sort of balance, the war is decided on how many subs you can throw to the ennemy
Of course you can rush the late techs and wreak havoc from day one, like you can already do with planes or land units.

Just adding in, IIRC, that the zinc coating painted on U Boats was a German response to a British deception operation (e.g., the Brits convinced the Germans that if they painted their subs with zinc-based paint (zinc was the rarest resource for Germany) that it would be nearly impossible for sonar to work on them). I think that story came out sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s when all the docs were declassifed

[Devildread]

Just adding in, IIRC, that the zinc coating painted on U Boats was a German response to a British deception operation (e.g., the Brits convinced the Germans that if they painted their subs with zinc-based paint (zinc was the rarest resource for Germany) that it would be nearly impossible for sonar to work on them). I think that story came out sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s when all the docs were declassifed

I believe you are refering to the coating thing? It came from here: http://www.uboataces.com/sonar-coating.shtml

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No release ETA.

[Pier]

I believe you are refering to the coating thing? It came from here: http://www.uboataces.com/sonar-coating.shtml

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No release ETA.

Actually no. The story the British planted was that they were finding uboats with an infrared search method. It was actually a feedback on suspicions send by Donitz through Enigma, which were then read in Bletchley Park. So the British acted on this by supporting the story via double agents and so on.
The Germans then developed a paint that absorbed optimally in the infrared spectrum. However, some sources say it actually made it an even stronger RADAR reflector though, thus more visible for the actual detection methods of the ASW fleets.

Some random links found through Google:
http://www.ijnhonline.org/volume1_nu...lantic.doc.htm
http://www.deceptology.com/2010/03/t...oking-its.html

[jju_57]

Never heard of paint that increases radar reflection. Heard of the opposite.

[comsubpac]

Actually no. The story the British planted was that they were finding uboats with an infrared search method. It was actually a feedback on suspicions send by Donitz through Enigma, which were then read in Bletchley Park. So the British acted on this by supporting the story via double agents and so on.
The Germans then developed a paint that absorbed optimally in the infrared spectrum. However, some sources say it actually made it an even stronger RADAR reflector though, thus more visible for the actual detection methods of the ASW fleets.

Some random links found through Google:
http://www.ijnhonline.org/volume1_nu...lantic.doc.htm
http://www.deceptology.com/2010/03/t...oking-its.html

i don't know the sources do sound a little dubious and i can't find any german source for that and i have seen anything in that direction.
all devices i know of are the alberich and similar things (sort of still used today in the new 212A class).

[Pier]

i don't know the sources do sound a little dubious and i can't find any german source for that and i have seen anything in that direction.
all devices i know of are the alberich and similar things (sort of still used today in the new 212A class).

A better source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare

To prevent the Germans from guessing that Enigma had been cracked, the British planted a false story about a special infrared camera being used to locate U-boats. The British were subsequently delighted to learn that the Germans responded by developing a special paint for submarines that exactly duplicated the optical properties of seawater.

And no, I didn't just add that in wikipedia .

[comsubpac]

A better source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare



And no, I didn't just add that in wikipedia .

since wikipedia does not give any source and i still find nothing in that direction in german i am still not convinced.

[Devildread]

Please find another thread to talk about this.

We are talking about Dies Irae DLC here.

[jju_57]

We are talking about Dies Irae DLC here.

Then spill more beans and let us know other little secrets. OH by the way I see costal subs are listed. Are these really necessary? Not sure who would build them.

[ashandresash]

I believe you are refering to the coating thing? It came from here: http://www.uboataces.com/sonar-coating.shtml

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No release ETA.

In Gamersgate is scheduled for next week 10th of May (I've preordered indeed).

[Devildread]

Then spill more beans and let us know other little secrets. OH by the way I see costal subs are listed. Are these really necessary? Not sure who would build them.

I can answer questions.
About Coastal Subs I build them as cheap low range units for the english channel and surroundings.

In Gamersgate is scheduled for next week 10th of May (I've preordered indeed).

Haha you tell me, I didn't know.

[Oof]

Devildread, is the 10th of May a realistic date for the release? Or are you just as much in the dark as us?

[ashandresash]

Haha you tell me, I didn't know.

You'd rather hurry releasing the Reich Ministers Dev Diary

I'm very pleased to have this dlc available a little earlier than expected.

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-CELANO/...otterdammerung



@Oof I've preordered successfully (4.99 €), so I expect it's not Gamersgate cheating us... they've made even a cover, and I've been rewarded with 250 bonus blue-coins

[jju_57]

What's the US dollar cost?

[Oof]

@Oof I've preordered successfully (4.99 €), so I expect it's not Gamersgate cheating us... they've made even a cover, and I've been rewarded with 250 bonus blue-coins

Only 5 more nights

[jju_57]

Devildread, since it looks like the 10th is the date will you move up the DD's? Did you plan for the next one to be the last or are there more?

And looking closely at the decisions are those hits to army organization real? I mean if I pick the subs does my land army organization suffer? Can I ever get that organization back say after UK is defeated or the sub war is won/lost?

[Oof]

BTW Gamersgate doesnt mention if it is compatible with Common Weapons. It does state it being compatible with SF and FTM. Is CW included in Götterdämmerung or is it not compatible?