Double Domination: Germany versus Japan

safferli said:

I think the Germany decisions needs to be changed to give +1 tax to one (not all) provinces...

Also, you could have given the Japanese an extra "gameplay" turn, making Westernisation easier. The AI simply cannot and will not force this.

But all in all, this is very enjoyable, and with the new houserules I think you're well-put for a nice high-tech land war in asia!

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In hindsight, Japan could indeed have used some help in Westernising. Too bad only later on I thought of the extra-turn approach.

As for Germany's unification event, I think I showed in this AAR that getting all these cores is such a huge boon that even -6 stab and +30 infamy doesn't matter than much. That Germany gets extra taxes is just icing on the huge, huge cake.

no7892142 said:

I'd say you wait for the inheritance-by-decision until your second to last turn is up, so you can build up and solidify in the last turn.
As for Germany: Should they inherit, the big nations should be released as vassals to make it at least as bit harder.

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I appreciate your input, but I don't think that will work quite as well. The reason I want to inherit Japan's PUs in 1720 is that in 1770 they all have cores, so that Japan is in the best condition for the Final Battle. If we do this only 20 years before the Battle, Japan will still have issues with nationalism, making it easier for Germany.

If I would play with Japan, waiting with the inheritance might work, but then again, in that situation Japan doesn't really need to be handicapped, either.

As for Germany waiting for inheritance and then releasing vassals, I think it's better to make them vassals straight away. If they are released, their colonies still belong to Germany and Germany gets a massive loss of Infamy, both of which I find less than optimal.

Stildawn said:

To be honest... If it were up to me I wouldnt help out either Germany or Japan too much (more than what you've already done) its ment to be a competition between the two... Thus luck and preparation should come into it...

Though at the time of the final battle you should play as the weaker side... That by itself should balance out most of the unbalancedness lol.

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I don't think I've helped out Japan that much, just a singular +3 stability increase. I see your point of keeping the competition as clean as possible and believe me, I want to interfere as little as possible.

However, I do think that manually forces the inheritances is quite a minimalistic way to make Japan stronger without cheating too much. A lot of the PUs are more than 150 years old, so it's not that unreasonable to make Japan inherit them at last.

TonyJoe said:

I'm wondering how you playing as the weaker side would work. If you're playing the aggressor (Germany, by all accounts) then you can either steamroll Japan or batter yourself senseless while fighting them. They'll simply have to continue fighting since you presumably will not accept any peace offers from them.

But how would it work if you're playing Japan? You could start the war as Germany and then reload as Japan but we all know how the AI is in war. It can fight much longer than is logical (in my current game the AI kingdoms of Great Britain and Milan (Italy, basically) have been at war for 20+ years and both have 20+ war exhaustion) or they can declare a white peace a month after the war begins.

Ah, I just answered my own question. If you play as Japan you can simply ignore all the German peace offers. Very clever. Of course then you have to deal with the AI's simplistic overseas invasion attempts. I wouldn't expect a European based AI to have much luck against an distributed realm like Japan/China, especially if JC is being played by a human.

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Ahh, I didn't make it clear that whoever I play will be the agressor. If I play Japan, the goal is to occupy every German province. It would be too easy to defend against the A.I.

Jim: Welcome, everyone. Double Domination is about to start. With me is everyone's favourite commentator, Bob.

Bob: Come on, Jim, everyone knows you're more popular than me.

Jim: But you're the smarter one. Anyway, I think our audience rather has us comment the game rather than slapping each other's shoulders. So how's Japan. Bob?

Bob: Well, apart from Japan's transition to Absolute Monarchy, little has changed in Japan or Asia. However, one important change is that France now has colonies in Asia, in particular to the north of Japan. If Germany inherits France, this could be problematic.



Jim: The Referee agrees. He has stated that if Germany inherits France, these colonies will go to another nation. By the way, he also gave Japan the mission to conquer two of Korea's provinces for only 1 Infamy each. Of course, this is such a good offer that Japan immediately declares war on Korea.

Bob: Germany also started a war: purging of heresy against Great Britain.



Jim: And yet another war is started: against Baluchistan. It's the first Japanese Imperialism War, but I doubt it will be the last.

Bob: Not a good start. In Baluchistan, 24 Japanese regiments are wiped out by Persian forces. What a disgrace!

Jim: Shows that Japanese forces are far from invincible. Besides, it's not that much of a disgrace, as Persia is probably the most dangerous non-Western nation on the planet.

Bob: I guess you're right. More reassuring is that in 1701, Korea cedes its southernmost two provinces, so Japan fulfilled its mission. The alliance leader Tibet is forced to convert to Shintoism.

Jim: See? Not all is bad for Japan. Neither is it for the other contestants. In 1702, Germany scores a nice victory against Great Britain.



Jim: As you can see, Germany has for once managed to do well without contestant supervision. The German team will be happy with this news!

Bob: I see the Japanese contestants are eager to show that they are not to be trifled with. They further increase the Centralisation of Japanese government. Furthermore, the pressure on Persia is increased and about two dozen Persian regiments are destroyed. The Ayatollah knows that he is defeated. Japan gets four provinces from Baluchistan and Persia concedes defeat.



Jim: Nicely done.

Bob: In the following years, peace is used to recover from war exhaustion, to squash rebels and to construct military buildings. After six very peaceful and very uneventful years, bang!

Jim: What?

Bob: Imperialism war on Persia!

Jim: Not a bad move. Probably the richest lands Japan can now easily lay hands on. If they manage to defeat Persia's armies, of course.

Bob: I wouldn't worry about that. In the meantime, a very welcome stabilising cherry blossom festival takes place.



Jim: I get even better news: Trade tech 23 is reached. This means Post Offices can be build, which they are, all of them in India. Probably so that the troops can write letters home?

Bob: While the war with Persia goes well, our contestants decide to expand the war to Korea. In August 1709, Imperialism war is declared on Korea. And to make conquest even faster, in September, Government tech 30 reached. This means that a Cabinet can be installed, making it possible to govern the country better and conduct better diplomacy, making conquest less costly.

Jim: If only Japan could have had it earlier. No matter, they can use it right now. In December 1709, Persia surrenders and cedes four provinces.



Bob: It also seems our contestants have put their faith in the natives, as the contestants let them deal the war with Korea.

Jim: Daring move. Well, Bob, this was quite a nice turn, I hope that Germany's will also be pleasant. See you after the break!

Jim: Good to see you all back. Germany is about to start the game.

Bob: Hello everyone. Europe has changed a bit since our last visit.



Bob: Sweden has annexed Norway, which consequently revolted from Papal Iceland. The German war against Great Britain caused Ireland to fall apart. In South East Europe, Hungary and Byzantium have expanded.

Jim: Nice to see the Roman Empire to still flourish. Domestically, Germany has abolished slavery, reducing infamy and stability costs at the price of reduced tax income.

Bob: For the rest, things seem to remain the same.

Jim: Good, time for war it is. As you might remember, Germany has a core on Hungary's Sopron. So a war is declared on Hungary in 1710.

Bob: However, this war was forced by our contestants. King Franz doesn't like and decides to die. A regency takes over and again no inheritances. Looks like the infamous German luck doesn't extent to inheritances.

Jim: Too bad. However, in July, Hungary surrenders and four provinces change hands. And speaking of German luck, a merchant dies and Germany gets lots of money.



Bob: Aww, come on Germany! You don't need this stupid luck, you can win on your own!

Jim: Better to be lucky than to be good, right? Or be both, that's the best! Anyway, back to the show. Our contestants write down the German constitution, adding a bit of freedom of religion and other rights.

Bob: So what does this mean in show terms?

Jim: Unam Sanctum is changed to Bill of Rights.

Bob: Aah, thanks. Good move, as the largest non-Catholic nation has been converted a while ago.

Jim: Indeed, Bob. If Germany wants wars with big nations, Bill of Rights is now indeed better than Unam Sanctum. And war is near. In 1711, the competent Ferdinand becomes king of Europe.



Jim: This king, as many before him, starts his reign with a war. In this case, a war of Unification on Sicily.

Bob: Sicily? Wow, talk about low standards.

Jim: Territory is territory. Soon, Sicily becomes Germany's fifth union partner.

Bob: How nice. In Asian news, Japan ended its war with Korea, gaining one province and forcing Tibet to release Delhi. Japan is keeping up with Germany quite nicely.

Jim: Not so quick! In 1712, a Boundary Dispute gives Germany another core on Hungary.



Jim: Also, in 1713, A war of Nationalism is declared on the one province Brabant. Great Britain comes to their aid. Germany further increases its power by building universities and by researching Land tech 34. This mean a large jump forward in tactics. British forces, already doing poorly against Germany, are now outright slaughtered. Soon Great Britain concedes defeat and Brabant is annexed.

Bob: Can nothing stop the German behemoth?

Jim: Nope, not even inflation, as in 1715 the Gold Standard is adopted. Also, finally the war of reconquest of Sopron is declared on Hungary. Germany's old enemy Bohemia, now an OPM, helps them. Within a month, the core is taken.

Bob: Brutal.

Jim: After a bit of peace and more universities, in October 1718, the truce with Great Britain ends and a war of Liberation is declared. Great Britain lost a Welsh province to Prussia and are in general badly beaten, having no fleet any more and only 50 regiments under arms.

Bob: You're kidding? The only European rival of Germany is now down for the count?

Jim: I'm afraid so. Furthermore, internally Germany is also doing well. In 1719 even more freedom is given to the subjects. The newly liberated middle class improves the economy.



Jim: German inflation has now dropped to a very comfortable 6%.

Bob: I'm getting scared by Germany.

Jim: Don't be, they don't have a time machine.

Bob: Yet.

Jim: Hahaha, you're always joking, Bob. Anyway, it might lift your spirits that Rome is no longer the seat of the pope. Tthe Papal State's capital now lies in South America.



Jim: Days before the team has to leave, the war with Britain ends, with Great Britain giving up Essex. All with all a magnificent turn for Germany, in which they primarily build up their domestic power without sacrificing expansion. And with 50 years until the Final Battle...Well, see you next time!

damienreave said:

My two cents on the balance debate...

Japan should inherit all PUs immediately, and get cores in territory of similar culture.

Germany's PUs should be edited into vassals. However, I think they absolutely should be included in the final war. The multitude of different powers will add chaos and unpredictability into the mix.

With that in mind, Japan will probably need another free turn... maybe just two in a row, followed by a German turn?

I also vote that you play the final battle start to finish from BOTH sides... one at a time. Stronger first, then the weaker. You have a time machine, right? Use it! The audience demands it!

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A problem with turning Germany's unions into vassals it that unions do not provide taxes or increased force limits to its masters as vassals do. If France, Spain and Poland become vassals, they will strengthen Germany a bit.

As for the other suggestions, sound ones. However, I think that if I want to play against a stronger opponent, I'll have to play Japan. Germany with its far better tech and continent can't be equal to Japan/Asia unless I deliberately cripple it.

If I just play Japan, all problems are basically solved. Sadly, no end war in Asia, but you can't have everything.

Arakhor said:

Complete Operation Sealion and then release GBR as a vassal! Oh, and splatter Poland while you're there.

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Great Britain has colonies in NA, so there's very little chance of me releasing GB unless I unionize it and then inherit it. And why should I splatter my union partner?

sad king billy said:

I don't think there's an aar where I'm more hopeful that a ruler will die (and consequently inheritances follow) than this one.

which is weird praise, come to think about it...

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Not that weird I hoped for ruler's deaths in Yin, Yang and the Ugly many a time. And in the end, Double Domination is about cheering for the contestants, not the kings.

Tallfellow said:

50 years to the end game begins, will Japan be able to catch up to the German giant, or will they dieinafire. Looking forward to see the next installment.

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I lost hope that Japan will completely catch up to Germany. Japan is 38 tech levels behind Germany, for example. This is more due to Germany's awesomeness than Japan's suckiness: France is only 5 levels ahead of Japan, Spain is 13 levels ahead and Poland is a shocking 20 levels behind Japan.

Unless Japan can gain a dozen or two levels on Germany, it will remain quite a bit weaker. I predict that Germany will only gain more of a tech advantage.

Arakhor said:

I got carried away and forgot you had Poland in a PU.

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Majromax said:

Is either nation making much use of the sphere of influence? Shpereing nations gives a bonus to effective diplomacy skill, and from what I can tell it's that modified diplomacy skill that's used on the inheritance check.

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I'm not really paying much attention to the SoI, but the AI has been busy expanding the SoI of both nations. From what I see, most of the time the modified diplomacy is at 9+.

I've checked and Germany has 8 sphered, Japan has 6 sphered, all done by the A.I.

Memento Mori said:

Perhaps if you just get rid entirely of the PUs and give Japan a free turn, war in high tech Asia could be salvaged? After all what you've done, if you decide to play Japan this would mean that you were giving yourself easier rules.

Also, even if the nation attacking is stronger, they won't have an easier time, as they still have to occupy the whole country.

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Do you mean getting rid of Germany's PUs? Well, as I told in a previous post, Japan with all its PUs inherited is barely as strong as Germany as it is right now, with way worse tech. With all that extra territory at high revolt risk, it will only widen the technological gap. I doubt an extra turn for Japan can reverse this.